Christopher Hitchens died today

[Excelsis]

for those of you arguing you'll never reach a conclusion

and I'm asking about ghosts because too many times I've heard stories of people who don't believe in ghosts experience it

I'm curious as to why they stay on this earth after death or if they're even born on this earth as ghosts? don't think so but iunno, the human spirit is a complex thing to learn

but this is as far as afterlife thought goes for me, I worry about the present, here and now
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[Soundy]

Originally Posted by The7even

You know what else is funny. Christianity teaches that all races ARE the same and that we're all brothers.
But you know who waged wars and pillaged Africa a couple of hundred years ago (still goes on today but on a much smaller scale), so called Christians.
You know who also slaughtered innocents and killed over pieces of dirt and rock? Muslims did, atheists did, everyone did.
Even when their own faith said NOT to do that.

Yes, Muslims converted others by force, Christians did it too..
Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
Yet almost all of these fuckers still try to shove it down your fucking throat.

...

No, actually, all facts point out that Man is the problem. His pride, his stupidity, his greed (welcome to today's economy), his belief that he is the best and that he deserves everything and that he is right and everyone else is wrong and the he knows whats best (converting others by force) and etc..
And yet religion is the problem?

Actually, it is... but there's only one religion that's really at issue, and that's the religion of power. All the examples cited above are actions done by someone seeking power, and using their stated faith/religion/god as an excuse, as a justification of why they're "right".

It's not unlike an oft-misquoted Bible phrase: the Bible doesn't say money is not the root of all evil... THE LOVE of money is. And in this world, money = power.

Edit: a couple other thoughts...

Mike Warnke, a Christian commedian, once noted that everyone has their own god, even atheists. It may not be an all-powerful being - for some people it's money, for some it's drugs or alcohol... "whatever that thing is that you turn to in times of need, that thing is your god." There's some wisdom in that.

And for those of you who like sci-fi: Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski is a very firm, self-proclaimed atheist... yet various B5 episodes (and indeed, many of the underlying themes of the show) have some of the most balanced, thoughtful, insightful, and moving examinations of a wide variety of different beliefs and religions, both known human ones, and his fictional alien ones. Having been raised Christian myself, I really appreciate his ability to look at all sides of a religion and address them without being judgmental either way. Few religious people OR atheists that I've come across have this ability.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

for those of you arguing you'll never reach a conclusion

and I'm asking about ghosts because too many times I've heard stories of people who don't believe in ghosts experience it

I'm curious as to why they stay on this earth after death or if they're even born on this earth as ghosts? don't think so but iunno, the human spirit is a complex thing to learn

but this is as far as afterlife thought goes for me, I worry about the present, here and now
Posted via RS Mobile

They probably experienced ghosts like little kids experience Santa Claus.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Actually, it is... but there's only one religion that's really at issue, and that's the religion of power. All the examples cited above are actions done by someone seeking power, and using their stated faith/religion/god as an excuse, as a justification of why they're "right".

It's not unlike an oft-misquoted Bible phrase: the Bible doesn't say money is not the root of all evil... THE LOVE of money is. And in this world, money = power.

Edit: a couple other thoughts...

Mike Warnke, a Christian commedian, once noted that everyone has their own god, even atheists. It may not be an all-powerful being - for some people it's money, for some it's drugs or alcohol... "whatever that thing is that you turn to in times of need, that thing is your god." There's some wisdom in that.

And for those of you who like sci-fi: Babylon 5 creator J. Michael Straczynski is a very firm, self-proclaimed atheist... yet various B5 episodes (and indeed, many of the underlying themes of the show) have some of the most balanced, thoughtful, insightful, and moving examinations of a wide variety of different beliefs and religions, both known human ones, and his fictional alien ones. Having been raised Christian myself, I really appreciate his ability to look at all sides of a religion and address them without being judgmental either way. Few religious people OR atheists that I've come across have this ability.

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

You can't be a religious person and have a genuine ability to look at all sides of the OTHERS religions without being judgmental whatsoever.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

See, this is the same trap people fall into trying to pigeonhole what individuals believe based on what religion they claim to follow: NOT all atheists "look at all deities and religions equally", the same way not all religious people view other religions (or non-religions) the same way.

In fact, I know plenty of people who proclaim to be atheists who love to take every opportunity to point out to people of all religious stripes, examples of how "their god" is hateful, vengeful, or just plain nasty... now wait a minute, if you don't believe that god EXISTS, than how can you believe that he's all this nasty shit???

[LiquidTurbo]

^They point it out on context of the respective religion to point out how strange their views are.

You can point out how fucked up that blowing yourself up and believing that you'll get the 26 virgins is, but not believe any lick of it.

It's pointing out the absurdity of the vantage point.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

^They point it out on context of the respective religion to point out how strange their views are.

You can point out how fucked up that blowing yourself up and believing that you'll get the 26 virgins is, but not believe any lick of it.

It's pointing out the absurdity of the vantage point.

No, you're missing the point: NOT ALL atheists operate this way.

Your statement "Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally" is over-generalized and inaccurate.

No two people think the same way, thus no two believe (or disbelieve) the same way. People who consider themselves atheists are just as prone to irrationality as anyone of any religious bent.

Being (or at least calling oneself) an atheist does not automatically impart a balanced, rational view of ANYTHING.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Actually I disagree. Atheist look at all deities and religions and equally.

You can't be a religious person and have a genuine ability to look at all sides of the OTHERS religions without being judgmental whatsoever.

I disagree, but I also agree.

From a purely clinical and uncaring perspective, I look at all deities equally, they're just imaginary characters in books with magical powers, like Harry Potter.

Religions however, I view very individually based on the teachings, Buddhism and Christianity are both religions, but I couldn't possibly have more opposing opinions of them.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Being (or at least calling oneself) an atheist does not automatically impart a balanced, rational view of ANYTHING.

Not picking on Christianity, (just that it's convenient in our Western world)

Spoiler!

Very rational.

[zulutango]

Yep...and no chance of a Christian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Yep...and no chance of a Chrfistian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

So come out and say it. What's your solution?

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Yep...and no chance of a Chrfistian suicide bomber or a fatwah (sp?) from the Pope if you draw a bad cartoon.

That's right, Christian terrorists are superior to their Islamic counterparts, when they bomb abortion clinics they detonate the devices remotely.

[Excelsis]

a terrorist is a terrorist, he has no right to be called a Christian, Islamic, etc
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[Ronin]

Every religion has it's crazies and fanatics. Christians can be just as much assholes as Muslims or whatever.

It's because everyone not only thinks they're right but that others are wrong and they somehow don't have a right to be wrong. If someone else is going to hell or not getting their 700 virgins at some point, then that's their problem...it in no way affects your fate here on earth or in whatever afterlife you believe in.

If people would just stop it with the evangelism, the world would get along better. People would no longer feel the urge or responsibility to "save" or "correct" others.

[woob]

Originally Posted by unit

the true belief in nothing is to be agnostic. its to be humble enough to believe that perhaps we know nothing at all.

Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. I am an agnostic atheist. Now what?

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

a terrorist is a terrorist, he has no right to be called a Christian, Islamic, etc

And you are not a true Scotsman, amirite?

Originally Posted by Ronin

If people would just stop it with the evangelism, the world would get along better. People would no longer feel the urge or responsibility to "save" or "correct" others.

I agree. But religious evangelism is far more common than atheistic evangelism. And for the religious evangelism to stop, entire religions have to rework their practices since many religions encourage the dissemination of their faith among the unconverted and posits the spreading of faith as a duty of its constituents.

Mark 16:15-16 (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Originally Posted by Soundy

if you don't believe that god EXISTS, than how can you believe that he's all this nasty shit???

I can believe they are all that "nasty shit" even if I don't believe they exist just like I can believe that Joffrey from Game of Thrones is a giant piece of shit even though I don't believe he is anything outside of a character is someone's fantasy series.

-----------

Sidenote:

I think it's time to stop pretending that it's only fanatics and extremists that commit violence in the name of religion. The Crusades were performed by mainstream Christians of the time. And the big problem with religious war is that faith-based conflict cannot be solved through reasonable debate since faith is not based on reason at all! Without reason, we are left with mindless conflict.

[Excelsis]

You know from my passive observing, i've noticed that atheists tend to be more radical and the most peaceful are the buddhists and taoists

Sorry if i sound like this but my numerous observations are what they are

[woob]

pssst atheist Buddhists exist.

From what little I've read of Buddhism, I think that of the major religions, it lines up the best with my current beliefs.


I would also like to hear about your observed radical atheists.

[Excelsis]

if you're a buddhist you're not an atheist, you believe in something

[woob]

Negatory, hombre.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity (a.k.a. a "god"), not a lack of belief in anything. Buddhism traditionally has no deities as Buddha himself asked not to be deified. As such, atheist Buddhism exists.

[Excelsis]

study religion a bit more

[woob]

God in Buddhism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The non adhrerence[1] to the notion of a omnipotent creator deity or a prime mover is seen by many as a key distinction between Buddhism and other religions."

[Excelsis]

sigh..

[Ronin]

Preaching is one thing but I feel like most religions are about forcing it upon others and making SURE they convert because it's the only way. I think preaching is more about being a source of information rather than making sure people believe it.

You can't force a horse to drink, you can only lead it to water. If that horse dies of dehydration, well, that isn't your responsibility because you held up your end of the bargain.

That and I feel evangelism has an inherent air of arrogance to it, like "I'm teaching you the correct way because I'm doing it so well that I can make others good at it as well." Any religious person that tells you they have never had doubts is a liar. Anyone that tells you they have followed their religion to the letter and never strayed is also probably a liar. I don't feel like myself or anyone else is a good enough example of religious ideals to take it upon themselves to convert others. That simply isn't their choice to make.

People just need to mind their own freakin' business about religion.

[Excelsis]

don't have doubts?

used to, not anymore

everything i do is for a reason

do i have any doubts now? no

[Ronin]

I think the second you stop questioning your religion, you become a fanatic that follows blindly and that's dangerous. Religion requires faith but blind faith just seems silly to me.