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Old 12-16-2011, 09:02 AM   #1
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Christopher Hitchens died today

One of the most prolific thinkers and debaters of our time. There was nothing quite like watching him cut apart unprepared people. RIP CH.

Quote:
When a Christian claimed that God had given him "throat" cancer to punish the "one part of his body he used for blasphemy", he replied: "My so-far uncancerous throat... is not at all the only organ with which I have blasphemed."

Describing heaven: "Endless praise and adoration, limitless abnegation and abjection of self; a celestial North Korea."

"The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics."

"Nothing optional - from homosexuality to adultery - is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate."

"The one unforgivable sin is to be boring." (A favourite saying of his mother's that he often quoted.)

On Sarah Palin: "I think she's a completely straightforward cynic and opportunist and I think she's cashing out... She's made a fortune and she'll make another. But she's not actually going to do the hard work of trying to lead or build a movement."

"A life that partakes even a little of friendship, love, irony, humour, parenthood, literature, and music, and the chance to take part in battles for the liberation of others cannot be called 'meaningless' except if the person living it is also an existentialist and elects to call it so. It could be that all existence is a pointless joke, but it is not in fact possible to live one's everyday life as if this were so."

On cancer and dying: "I burned the candle at both ends and it often gave a lovely light."
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:46 AM   #2
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IMO, the smartest of the new atheists
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:20 AM   #3
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Loved this tweet:

Hitch dies. #GodisNotGreat trends. Religious people threaten violence. Twitter yanks trend. I think Hitch just won a debate post-mortem.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:42 AM   #4
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Here's a video of him at debates

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Old 12-16-2011, 10:48 AM   #5
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
Loved this tweet:

Hitch dies. #GodisNotGreat trends. Religious people threaten violence. Twitter yanks trend. I think Hitch just won a debate post-mortem.
lol.. if you actually read the 'violent' tweets with #godisnotgreat, it's pretty obvious that it's satire at best, misunderstood Christianity at worst.

My favourite tweets are the atheists, most of whom have probably never read or listened to hitchens, stating how peaceful atheists are
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:52 PM   #7
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RIP, he was a smart man that challenged my faith.
He fought against religious intolerance.
You just don't meet too many "celebrities" that are logically sound nowadays.

He was the hammer to logic's anvil the helped me figure out just where facts end and faith begins.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:05 PM   #8
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rofl that was funny though



he was a george bush supporter though so... (and he thinks the Lancet is BS...)

george galloway>hitchens

although they didnt go at it too often


he's just a really angry guy probably because he is gay and went through a lot of shit (no pun intended) as a kid due to the church so he got really really smart to fuel his anger (and so his intellect is therefore flawed) so that he could win in debates etc through his acquired knowledge; although he didnt win all his debates (Galloway, etc) but he's definitely a hero for those who think alike

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Old 12-16-2011, 06:38 PM   #9
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Yes he was a very angry guy, and not everyone needs to be 'against' theism. But we DO need people like that to raise awareness. I don't think every atheist should follow his 'new atheist' movement, but like I said, it's important to have some balance going forward.

Eventually we probably do need to abolish religion (whether 'good' or 'bad') for our species to move on from being a bunch of meat-insects fighting over arbitrary ideas, but that won't happen any time soon.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:53 PM   #10
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Eventually we probably do need to abolish religion (whether 'good' or 'bad') for our species to move on from being a bunch of meat-insects fighting over arbitrary ideas, but that won't happen any time soon.
But that's wrong.

I'm really not sure why atheists seem to lose their logic when it comes to religion and faith.

Most atheists are very logical and have a good sense of self, what's right and what's wrong. They also tend to notice bullshit very easily and are 100% open minded and accept facts as they reveal them selves, whether it be scientific or whatever.

But when it comes to religion, you all seem to lose your logic and just say the silliest of things.

I don't understand why you guys can't detect the pattern here, when in everything else, you can easily root out the problem.

It's as if with religion, you all just take the easy way out and say "Fuck it, it's religion, abolish religion".

Let me show you how you're wrong.


Your error is in having faith in Humanity.
You do realize that religion is not the problem, actually, it never has been.

The problem is the people you're actually holding up on a pedestal.. us.. Humans.
That is the problem.
You assume, for one reason or another that humanity will wake up and smell the coffee if we all were raised without religion in our homes and if religion was abolished, we would all of a sudden be that much better off.
Or maybe you don't maybe you think progress will happen slowly and there won't be any wars fought over religion, etc. What ever you're thinking, it's wrong.


You're mixing two elements together and when the result turns bad, you're blaming it all on one element.
It's like mixing hot Oil and Water and when it blows up in your face, you go "Oh my fucking God, Water is so fucking dangerous, get rid of it!"

The fact is, both (for the lack of a better comparison) are good. It's what we decide to do with either of these elements that matters and where the real issue lies.

I don't understand why you guys can make so much damn sense and then with this you stumble all over your selves and take the easy way out.

Be humble and stop being so proud of humanity, we REALLY aren't better than monkeys, I thought you guys knew this already.

Some of you will look at Christianity and point out inconsistencies. This is also a wrong way of proving your point.

I believe the bible was re-written many times (I apologize if this offends any Christians) so I do take things from it with a grain of salt.

But what about my faith (which I don't think is "better" I just think it's the right route to the same conclusion), Islam. It doesn't teach that homosexuals go to hell ( a shocker right?). In fact, BECAUSE of my faith, I believe that Homosexuals are no better and no worse than me, a heterosexual. And that Heterosexuals are no better or worse than a homosexual. Same goes with races. All races are the same.

You know what else is funny. Christianity teaches that all races ARE the same and that we're all brothers.
But you know who waged wars and pillaged Africa a couple of hundred years ago (still goes on today but on a much smaller scale), so called Christians.
You know who also slaughtered innocents and killed over pieces of dirt and rock? Muslims did, atheists did, everyone did.
Even when their own faith said NOT to do that.

Yes, Muslims converted others by force, Christians did it too..
Islam states that there is no compulsion in religion.
Yet almost all of these fuckers still try to shove it down your fucking throat.

In Islam it is mentioned that atheists, christains, jews, blacks, whites, whatever.. everyone has the same chance to enter (you can laugh , I really don't mind) heaven..
Yet Muslims behead anyone that converts..
They kill anyone suspected of being gay, they punish too easily and are happy to kill anyone .. ALL of this, while the book is a million times more lenient than they ever will be. And in most cases the book is 100% against them and their deeds..
But religion needs to be abolished?
No, actually, all facts point out that Man is the problem. His pride, his stupidity, his greed (welcome to today's economy), his belief that he is the best and that he deserves everything and that he is right and everyone else is wrong and the he knows whats best (converting others by force) and etc..
And yet religion is the problem?

I will grant you this, good sir. Christianity does have loopholes when looked at from a scientific angle.. But I am not Christian and Christianity is not the only faith you should be using to determine whether YOU are going to believe in anything.

If all atheists are proud of science, then you owe it to your selves to look at any other religion, actually, ALL of them, and then determine whether you believe in anything or not. But when you do look through all the other faiths, do it as if you truly believed in science and what science teaches, and look at each of these faiths without any pre-concieved conclusions, look at these faiths without first creating your own hypothesis, do it properly and if then you decide it is not for you, then good.. you've learned something at least in the process.

Yes, we all know theres a lot of guys like Rick Perry, and Mahmoud Ahmedinijad.. but please remember, he's a stupid and thick headed human being first and a supposed member of Islam, second.
It's his ego and character and his personality and his soul that are fucked and evil, he interprets Islam through all those filters.


Lastly, if you do read the Quran, please read ONLY the Quran. Not anything else written by faggot old men with little dicks who fuck camels and are afraid of any female progress because they believe such a thing would threaten their choke hold on power.
If I had the power, I would murder all of these fucking so called "scholars", even though my faith would urge me to not be the judge, I'd still do it. (I hope that proves my point also).

I see your drive and want for a better tomorrow, and I love the end-result you're trying to reach, but the method's of which you'd implement for doing so are completely wrong and would do nothing.

Thank's for reading, if you did. I await your reply.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:14 PM   #11
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Spoiler!
“If every trace of every single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.”
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:19 PM   #12
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religion ?

science?
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:49 PM   #13
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“If every trace of every single religion were wiped out and nothing were passed on, it would never be created exactly that way again. There might be some other nonsense in its place, but not that exact nonsense. If all of science were wiped out, it would still be true and someone would find a way to figure it all out again.”
Try again, that's not even an argument. Christopher Hitchins was debating retards, no one really worthy of debate. It's why he always won, and it's why he loved debating them, because they were pretty stupid.

I'm not saying he was taking the easy way out, he wasn't, but he debated them to show their stupidity, which I side with him on.

But your argument is terrible and is only a statement. Nothing else.
That's like me saying "water is wet".


It is also a very wrong argument.

Hitchins, like you, didn't take in to account time when he made that statement.
If somehow antimatter took out all matter, you wouldn't be studying the same thing, nor would you be learning it the same way. You'd definitely discover things differently and different things as well.
The universe does not appear dynamic, it appears very static. But it changes and if you were studying the universe billions of billions years ago, you'd be finding out things differently.
We're now thinking that light might not be the fastest thing in the universe and I believe with time, even if light were the fastest, eventually something would come along that is faster than it.

Even if you were correct though, which you are not, Science is the study of the universe, something that appears static to us, because of how slow things change. Religion always has the same message, but it is different in how it is delivered and to whom.. mainly because Humanity evolves through time (I thought you knew this).. I don't know why you're expecting a higher being of being a robot that repeats it self with the same message over and over. Nor will I bother asking you why you're not taking all variables into account (humanity's habit to change the message to fit their version of what is right and wrong) when you're taking on religion.

I'm going to have to ask you to use more science in your logic, sir.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:00 AM   #14
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religion ?

science?
That's what I'm talking about..

/facepalm
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:05 AM   #15
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Hahaha.. no one really notices the flaw in this logic?
In the first 30 seconds, he contradicts him self and fails.

Religion is the source of hate.
We must hate all religion.
He is atheist.. therefore his first point, which claims the source of hate as religion is immediately false.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:06 AM   #16
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There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.

Again I have nothing against religious people, I don't want it to seem that way. I accept that people come from all walks of life, and humans are extremely easy to brainwash and manipulate, especially over hundreds of years. So it's just something I have to accept. I just hope our ancestors can move past it eventually. We'll have to, really.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:12 AM   #17
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Typed up a long response, then my laptop battery died, fuck, I wish forums auto-saved messages like gmail..

An intelligent debate is a great way to honour Hitchens memory, keep it up guys.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:25 AM   #18
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There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.
But I'm the guy who believes the earth is billions of years old, and believes in Dinosaurs.

Would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't dismiss me as one of the idiots you're used to arguing with, good sir.

EDIT: I'm also not arguing about whether atheism or religion is right. With science, you demand proof, with religion, you go on faith. I'm arguing that who you're pitting the blame on (or what you're pitting the blame on, in this case) is incorrect.

Thanks a bunch.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:26 AM   #19
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:32 AM   #20
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Typed up a long response, then my laptop battery died, fuck, I wish forums auto-saved messages like gmail..

An intelligent debate is a great way to honour Hitchens memory, keep it up guys.
Type it out, would like to hear what you have to add.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:40 AM   #21
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There is absolutely no point in arguing about religion with someone who is religious. It's not like two scientists who have differing opinions on something that can be proven or disproven with time. It is always one person who can accept something that can be proven or disproven, versus someone who has been brainwashed into thinking the earth is only a few thousand years old, and that dinosaurs were placed in the ground by the devil to trick us into believing in science. So sorry, nothing more to add here.

Again I have nothing against religious people, I don't want it to seem that way. I accept that people come from all walks of life, and humans are extremely easy to brainwash and manipulate, especially over hundreds of years. So it's just something I have to accept. I just hope our ancestors can move past it eventually. We'll have to, really.
98% percent of the time, it's absolutely pointless to have an intelligent discussion on religion with a religious person, because they refuse to accept any of your view points or find fault in their own. Maybe that's why they're religious?

The odd time however, you find a religious person who is realistic, who doesn't buy into the conventional dogmatic bull shit that's made religion what it is today. I enjoy, and do not take for granted those opportunities..
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:44 AM   #22
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I used to be all interested in having these discussions with people. Then I realized it's a complete waste of time.
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But I'm the guy who believes the earth is billions of years old, and believes in Dinosaurs.

Would greatly appreciate it if you wouldn't dismiss me as one of the idiots you're used to arguing with, good sir.

EDIT: I'm also not arguing about whether atheism or religion is right. With science, you demand proof, with religion, you go on faith. I'm arguing that who you're pitting the blame on (or what you're pitting the blame on, in this case) is incorrect.

Thanks a bunch.
If you weren't being so pedantic, I might take more time to consider your posts...

But I'll just say, if you don't think religion causes people who otherwise wouldn't hate to do so, then I was correct in dismissing you.
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:46 AM   #24
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I used to be all interested in having these discussions with people. Then I realized it's a complete waste of time.

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Old 12-17-2011, 12:58 AM   #25
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If you weren't being so pedantic, I might take more time to consider your posts...

But I'll just say, if you don't think religion causes people who otherwise wouldn't hate to do so, then I was correct in dismissing you.
You're right, I apologize for that..
My reply to your reply might have been a bit smart-ass-ish but my first post was not.

No, religion doesn't cause it.
You're using the same argument that religious zealots use against atheists.
i.e. "if you're atheist, you're evil, obviously, since you believe in nothing and you don't care about anyone or anything"

It's a stereotype of sorts.. that really has no room in an intelligent debate.
The only difference in when you say it is that it originates from the other side.

Furthermore, if you're going to use examples of Saddam Hussein and the Crusades or any random person doing evil and using religion as their main drive and source of motivation, I can by that logic use the goodness that comes from religion to defend my stance, completely nulling out your point, thus making your argument invalid.
So you're going to have to dig deeper if you're trying to make sense, or you could admit that you were wrong.
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