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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I wonder what's going to happen next. will Kim Jong Un go apeshit? or maybe US and S.Korea gonna take this opportunity to bust through N.Korea's borders and stuff.
I wonder what's going to happen next. will Kim Jong Un go apeshit? or maybe US and S.Korea gonna take this opportunity to bust through N.Korea's borders and stuff.
Yeah man, the USA just got out of the Iraq, they'll be there tomorrow morning...
No one gives a rat's ass about NK but SK. NK just yaps a lot like a small dog.
The leaders of North Korea aren't viewed as political leaders by the population, they're messiahs, that reaction is completely genuine. It's as if Buddha, Allah or Jesus just died. It's also why an invasion of North Korea would be nearly impossible and they'll never have an arab spring style revolution, never mind the massive fascist military force, the ordinary citizens would lay down their lives without hesitation to protect the state.
I'm going to hell, the harder they cried the harder I laughed.
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The leaders of North Korea aren't viewed as political leaders by the population, they're messiahs, that reaction is completely genuine. It's as if Buddha, Allah or Jesus just died. It's also why an invasion of North Korea would be nearly impossible and they'll never have an arab spring style revolution, never mind the massive fascist military force, the ordinary citizens would lay down their lives without hesitation to protect the state.
Yeah, being oppressed and threaten with violence has nothing to do with this at all. I'm willing to bet more than half of the ppl are there putting on a show for self preservation, not to pay tribute to "god". NK is one big show, nothing more.
If someone wanted to "invade" NK, it would be a walk in the park in the context of war baring any intervention from the big two.
Yeah, being oppressed and threaten with violence has nothing to do with this at all. I'm willing to bet more than half of the ppl are there putting on a show for self preservation, not to pay tribute to "god". NK is one big show, nothing more.
If someone wanted to "invade" NK, it would be a walk in the park in the context of war baring any intervention from the big two.
That's a very accurate statement when referring to certain fascist countries, the sudden uprisings in Egypt and Libya when the opportunity to topple a dictator arose are evidence of that. I'll remind you however, that even when it became very clear that the governments in those countries would fall many members of the military and some ordinary citizens were willing to fight to the death. What makes Egypt and Libya different than North Korea, it's quite simple, everything that makes the dictatorship strong is magnified exponentially and therefore the percentage of fanatically loyal citizens is as well. During the dictatorships in Egypt and Libya limited western influence was allowed, although the state run media released propaganda and controlled the information it's citizens had access too, they allowed foreign visitors and business. North Korea invites only very select foreign visitors as guests of the state and releases exponentially more propaganda, the result is a bizarre culture you see in the video, it's a very literal 1984 style society. Kim Jong Il wasn't a leader to the people in the video, he was a god, you can't fake a reaction like that.
That's a very accurate statement when referring to certain fascist countries, the sudden uprisings in Egypt and Libya when the opportunity to topple a dictator arose are evidence of that. I'll remind you however, that even when it became very clear that the governments in those countries would fall many members of the military and some ordinary citizens were willing to fight to the death. What makes Egypt and Libya different than North Korea, it's quite simple, everything that makes the dictatorship strong is magnified exponentially and therefore the percentage of fanatically loyal citizens is as well. During the dictatorships in Egypt and Libya limited western influence was allowed, although the state run media released propaganda and controlled the information it's citizens had access too, they allowed foreign visitors and business. North Korea invites only very select foreign visitors as guests of the state and releases exponentially more propaganda, the result is a bizarre culture you see in the video, it's a very literal 1984 style society. Kim Jong Il wasn't a leader to the people in the video, he was a god, you can't fake a reaction like that.
Fair enough, it seems that you're much more educated in this topic than I, so I will defer to the experts on this one. My first reaction of the video was one of disingenuity. Not a single tear was shed. It actually looks like when children fake cry.
Fair enough, it seems that you're much more educated in this topic than I, so I will defer to the experts on this one. My first reaction of the video was one of disingenuity. Not a single tear was shed. It actually looks like when children fake cry.
It's not often someone responds well to being corrected on something, especially on a forum, fail removed and I commend your maturity.
The comparison to the way children cry is actually interesting, because in many ways I consider those people to being more on the mental level of a child than an adult, as a result of the isolation and restrictiveness of the society limiting their ability to intellectually develop..
Last edited by MindBomber; 12-19-2011 at 11:50 AM.
Alright, I know I'm late to this, but I'll comment anyway. I'm using a throwaway because I work in the international security field, and I simply don't know what kind of monitoring my agency has placed on my main account and computer.
A military coup is a distinct possibility. The death of Kim Jong-Il has created a power vacuum, and many generals are looking to fill it. There are coups that have been in the works for a long time.
That said, Kim Jong-Un is not an idiot like the Western media and agencies like mine have spread as rumor. He is not particularly capable, but he is Kim Jong-Il's son -- he is ruthless and largely unwilling to relinquish power. A military coup against him would divide the country, and coup leaders cannot have that. NK is strong because it is united, and its leaders know this.
Any coup would need to be mostly bloodless and garner popular support, likely through moving Kim Jong-Un to a prominent but powerless position. The most likely culprits in this scenario are Kim Jong-Il's sister, Kim Kyong-hui, and her husband, Chang Sung-taek. Sung-taek has been a prominent figure in NK's leadership since Kim Jong-Il's stroke in 2008, and Kim Kyong-hui is a high-ranking general with considerable sway. Were they to stage a coup, the situation would likely remain rather stable with few ramifications for South Korea.
A less likely but scarier situation involves China. The Chinese are largely tired of dealing with North Korea, and Korea as a whole. They may make a move to establish power in North Korea. The Chinese already have a great deal of sway in NK due to them being North Korea's only real supporter. They may manipulate the situation there to consolidate more influence and reign in the North Korean rogue state. While this would be good for the Chinese, it would scare us here in the United States. While I doubt it would come to open conflict, posturing would be made over the issue of Taiwan. The US would likely arm Taiwan, citing a Chinese power grab in NK as grounds to prepare for one in Taiwan.
The Russians also have a vested interest in the developments in North Korea, because they are a buyer of arms and military technology (particularly of the nuclear sort). They do not want that market to collapse, so they would likely maneuver to prevent instability in NK.
The South Koreans are the most important actor here. SK wants to retake the region, but they know this would anger the Chinese, Japanese, and US (though they are SK's allies, Japan and the US care more about relations with China than they do about the reunification of Korea). Any action by South Korea to destabilize North Korea will likely result in a swift response from North Korea. NK's leaders know that the best way to consolidate power would be to head North Korea in a military conflict against South Korea. SK also knows this, and they also realize the ramifications any action would entail.
My department, though not all of my agency is in accord, does not see the situation as regionally destabilizing. Internal conflict will, as we see it, be the only outcome. All others will watch closely and carefully, and this will be used as a bargaining chip in the next few weeks -- I guarantee there will be a UN Security Council meeting over this and Russia, China, and the US will debate the issue.
I would not worry too much. If anything, the situation in North Korea is no more unpredictable than it was before Kim Jong-Il's death.
EDIT: to address what a few others have said, there will be no reunification -- at least not presently. This may be the beginning of the end, but the North Koreans will not peacefully reunify with South Korea and vice versa. Any violent reunification is highly unlikely because other (and much more powerful) actors in the international scene want to prevent that.
EDIT 2: I'm not using the same computer, and I didn't say anything sensitive; people from international security organizations probably don't care and likely doubt my credibility (I would as well). This is all common knowledge by now, anyway. Second, most agencies wouldn't actually have any monitoring tools, because they don't know anything about cybersecurity. Mine, however, does, but that's not really that important.
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N koreans are brainwashed like non others.. try being under the control of most suppressive dictator x2 (Kim il sung and Kim jong il) for over 60 years... constantly brainwashed and reminded that the great leader grants them prosperity and happiness.. (they probably don't even know what they are)..
With Kim dying and his son taking over, which is said to be just like his old man, hopefully not much will change too drastically. S.Korean gov didn't expect Kim to die so suddenly... but they were aware of his failing health. If both Korea is to be united, the S.Korea govt has to be ready to put endless funds and resources to N.Korea.. (much like Germany but worse..).
Countries like China, Russia, Japan, and even US don't want South and North uniting for many different reasons. US would rather send their troops to N Korea because of overwhelming numbers of soldiers returning back from Iraq and Afghan and are with no jobs. China is secretly mining all the raw materials from N.Korea and Japan is just so anal about Korea uniting as whole, because they don't want Korea to get too powerful..
Anyways.. Kim's funeral is expected to go on for 13 days countrywide.. and they aren't faking it when they mourn for his death.
Edit: I just read the post above.. I agree 100%.. good read.
"..North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il's death was noted on Twitter as an epic loss to golf, with hundreds recalling the Stalinist state media's reports of Kim's 11 holes-in-one in a single round in 1994.
Reports hailed Kim's 38-under par 34 over 18 holes at the 7,700-yard Pyongyang Golf Course in his first try at golf, a feat watched purportedly by 17 security guards protecting the man hailed as "Dear Leader."
Kim, who died on Saturday of a heart attack at age 69, was 52 at the time he purportedly fired a round where birdie was his worst score on any hole.
Twitter skeptics wondered whether or not Kim might have tried to surpass such stars as Tiger Woods or reigning World No. 1 Luke Donald of England had he truly gone 21 strokes below best score from a US PGA golfer.
"Look at it this way: With Kim Jong Il dying, everybody will be moving up one spot in the World Golf Rankings," noted Dan Daly in a Twitter posting.
Others pondered the golf showdowns that never happened.
"Kim Jong-il's passing means LukeDonald is now indisputably golf's world no.1," Tweeted John Mackay. "Congrats Luke. Just a shame it wasn't settled on the course."
"Golf world mourns the passing of the prodigious world leader never to win a major," Tweeted Shaun Hinds.
Even Paddy Power tweeted that "The world has lost a golfing legend, we're 1,000,000/1 for any PGA player to beat Kim Jong Il's record round of 38 under."
Some saw hope for Kim from beyond the grave, Rick Reilly posting, "Just in from North Korean state news agency: Kim Jong Il's corpse shoots 54, incl 6 aces."
Nick Howell pondered what might have been, saying his record round "Could've been even better if his ball hadn't stuck under the windmill on the eleventh."
Alistair Barrie was shocked there was not more mention on golf websites, noting, "No one seems remotely concerned that the world's greatest golfer has died."
"With passing of Kim Jong Il, sports world may have lost greatest golfer of all time," tweeted HuffPost Sports.
"The golf world mourns the loss of Kim Jong-Il. Routinely scored 3 or 4 aces every round according to state run media, so it must be true," wrote Len Berman.
Ray Ratto had his suspicions, tweeting "don't fully buy this Kim Jong-Il golf story. Surely the Callaway people would have sent him a hat, a shoulder patch or something."
In a timely post with Christmas approaching, Chris Scoular said, "The North Korean equivalent of finding out Santa isnt real must be finding out Kim Jong Il didnt invent the hamburger or shoot a 38 in golf."
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his son could be an epic person in history if he opened up the North to the South or outright "surrendered" and give it over to the South all in the name of "for the good of the ppl"
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