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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
The alleged “honor killing” of three teenaged daughters by their Afghan-born parents has shocked a country that prizes multiculturalism and sparked debate about the integration of immigrants.
In the widely-followed trial, polygamist Mohammad Shafia is accused of murdering his three daughters and his first wife. Also accused of four counts of premeditated murder is Shafia’s 20-year-old son, Hamed, and Shafia’s second wife, Tooba Mohammad Yahya, the mother of the three dead girls.
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Prosecutors have referred to the deaths as so-called “honor killings” — the murder of women for perceived violations of sexual or behavioral norms imposed by tradition. The United Nations has estimated that 5,000 occur worldwide every year.
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Shafia, a 59-year-old businessman, came to Canada with his second wife and their seven children in 2007. His first wife, Rona Amir Mohammad, arrived months later, officially introduced to Canadian immigration officials as the children’s aunt. Polygamy is illegal in Canada.
In the months before their deaths, the three sisters told social workers, school officials and police they were verbally and physically abused at home. Zainab spoke of enduring long periods of forced isolation in her bedroom. She fled to a shelter for abused women two months before she died. Sahar attended school with scratched and bruised arms, and attempted suicide by swallowing pills.
Child-welfare workers and police visited the home but didn’t remove the children, the court heard, apparently because the sisters refused to repeat their complaints in front of their parents.
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The accused have pleaded not guilty.
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Whatever the final verdict, the evidence so far has been chilling. Shortly after the deaths, police placed a listening device in Shafia’s car.
“They committed treason from beginning to end,” Shafia told the other two accused during one conversation in the car. “They betrayed humankind, they betrayed Islam, they betrayed our religion and creed, they betrayed our tradition, they betrayed everything.”
In another wiretapped conversation, Shafia, speaking to his second wife, is in a rage: “Even if they come back to life a hundred times, if I have a cleaver in my hand, I will cut (them) in pieces. Not once but a hundred times, as they acted that cruel towards you and me. For the love of God, what had we done to them? What excess had we committed … that they undressed themselves in front of boys?”
At one point, he is heard referring to his eldest daughter, Zainab: “Is that what a daughter should be? Would a daughter be such a whore?”
Then this outburst: “May the devil shit on their graves.”
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The Shafia trial has raised questions about Canada’s 40-year-old policy of multiculturalism. Some argue integration in Canadian values is taking a back seat to tolerance of cultural differences. They point to the social workers who visited Shafia’s home and accuse them of letting multicultural sensitivities blind them to abuse.
tl;dr: An Afghani immigrant is accused of murdering his three daughters and his first wife in an "honour killing" because he thought his daughters were acting too western, flirting with boys and wearing revealing clothing.
Lets keep this discussion mature and ignorance-free.
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Originally Posted by MG1
She taught me right from wrong and always told me to stay positive and help others no matter how small the deed - that helping others gives us meaning to carry on. The sun is out today and it's a new day. Life is good. I just needed a slap in the face.
before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...
the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows
1) non belief in God (obvious) 2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged) 3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)
__________________ (oO:::\___/:::Oo) (DPE-wheels) // Satin Cocaine White
before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...
the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows
1) non belief in God (obvious) 2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged) 3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)
Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.
Of course if you go 'by the letter of the book' it can be interpreted that honor killing = murder. But somehow, people are not interpreting it that way for some reason. For some reason, even though the Qur'an "celebrates the inherent dignity bestowed by God upon all human beings regardless of race, ethnicity, gender or religion", women have less rights than animals in these countries, and people from other ethnicities become slaves, and of course you have people going to jail for being homosexual.
Ah, so it must be pure coincidence that only islamic countries do honor killing then.
So your telling me a father has never killed any of his children in Canada?
It has to do with culture not religion. the two are often confused by people outside and inside the faith. In the Sikh religion cast does not matter but if you every see marriage ads in Indian papers you will see ads looking for a Sikh of a certain cast.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
So your telling me a father has never killed any of his children in Canada?
It has to do with culture not religion. the two are often confused by people outside and inside the faith. In the Sikh religion cast does not matter but if you every see marriage ads in Indian papers you will see ads looking for a Sikh of a certain cast.
This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.
That man should be fucking butchered on live TV so all the fucking religious fucknuts will think twice before doing something stupid. An eye for an eye!!!!
This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.
The religion is telling them not to do and they still do it. Even if they were not religious they could still do this because of culture.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
This is the exact same argument Chris Hitchens makes. No, not all religious people are evil. And yes, non religious people do some evil shit. But in many cases, it's religion that causes otherwise totally normal people to do evil shit. Like honor killing your daughters.
I'd argue that this fuck who killed his daughters wasn't a normal person...
Lets remember that this guy hasn't been convicted yet. Sure, he seems guilty as fuck but the case is still in trial.
Laws of Canada aside, could his lawyers successfully argue that any death that occurred happened as a result of his cultural beliefs clashing with the laws of this country and use that to garner a non-guilty verdict?
She taught me right from wrong and always told me to stay positive and help others no matter how small the deed - that helping others gives us meaning to carry on. The sun is out today and it's a new day. Life is good. I just needed a slap in the face.
before anybody jumps to the conclusion that this has anything to do with Islam.... nope... these are tribal customs from tribal regions in Afghanistan, there is no honor killings in Islam...
the 3 worst sins in Islam are as follows
1) non belief in God (obvious) 2) suicide (your body is sacred and basically on rent from God whilst in this world, must not be damaged) 3) murder (killing one person is as if you've killed all of humanity, saving one person is as if you've saved all of humanity)
Are all these islamic honour killers from Afghanistan?
The greatest shame imaginable is when good and intelligent people allow themselves to pass judgement on an entire segment of society based on the actions of a few, unfortunate and misguided individuals. Recognize that through the Qur'an, Islam, does not preach terrorism or honour killings and that these are simply individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated and blinded to the true teachings of an honourable religion. These people do not represent Islam, they represent a sickeningly inaccurate misinterpretation of it.
The greatest shame imaginable is when good and intelligent people allow themselves to pass judgement on an entire segment of society based on the actions of a few, unfortunate and misguided individuals. Recognize that through the Qur'an, Islam, does not preach terrorism or honour killings and that these are simply individuals who have allowed themselves to be manipulated and blinded to the true teachings of an honourable religion. These people do not represent Islam, they represent a sickeningly inaccurate misinterpretation of it.
The Islam in itself does not fucking promote honour killings for fucks sake. It is the local culture/custom/societal norms that dictate what is deemed the ultimate sin for those people. It is sad when people view the select few extremists and apply to a large portion of the world's population (%20 of the world's pop is muslim). It is almost like using how morman sects with their multiple wives somehow represents the entire christian faith.
its quite sorrowful to see canada's multiculturalism policy being abused in such ways, its one of the canada's unique characteristics yet incidents like this detonate the system to the wrong way
The government should do the honourable thing in the name of all Canadians both native born and immigrants, who obey the law and appreciate the freedoms we have in this country, and deport these fucks back to the piece of shit sandlot they came from.
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