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Old 02-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #151
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Chinese (including people from HK) tend to be like locusts, once they see something they like, they start invading in swarms

If you ever go to Citygate Outlets out by Tung Chung, you'll see plenty of them walking around with luggage. Those people don't use luggage as we do, a lot of times it'll be used as shopping carts.

sindragon - you are correct, a good portion of mainlanders prefer that their children get the benefits of being born in HK. They had a few tv shows discussing this rather large problem, and yet it seems as though there is not much they can do about it. If you ever visit the borders, you see a lot of pregnant women crossing into Hong Kong.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:42 PM   #152
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the ccp single-handedly fucked up the people in china. all the good traditional values and customs have been wiped clean, erased from the society. replaced with brain wash and moral depletion.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:09 PM   #153
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the ccp single-handedly fucked up the people in china. all the good traditional values and customs have been wiped clean, erased from the society. replaced with brain wash and moral depletion.
This I agree with. I catch a lot of flak here for speaking out on the issue, but I want to make it clear that I have nothing against the PEOPLE in China. I think there are wonderful people all over the world, and shitty people as well. I do NOT generalize about the people. I go there all the time, and meet interesting people.

HOWEVER

What you say IS true. Their culture has been bleached out of them by the CCP. And a lot of people (not generalizing here, but if you think about it, it's true) who otherwise might be interesting normal people, have become uninteresting, vapid trend whores who only care about money and 'getting face'. YES there are people like that everywhere (including a few here on RS) but what I have a problem with is that this type of culture is directly promoted by the government, who also don't let their people live the lives they WANT to, if they otherwise wouldn't want to be that vapid, boring personality.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:32 PM   #154
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May I ask what "traditional values" and "customs" have been wiped out by CCP? Curious to know
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:30 PM   #155
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May I ask what "traditional values" and "customs" have been wiped out by CCP? Curious to know
Ditto and in detail please. I'd like to know so I can bring it up in a discussion with my mainlander friends who always promote Mao's "greatness".
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #156
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Ditto and in detail please. I'd like to know so I can bring it up in a discussion with my mainlander friends who always promote Mao's "greatness".
I think most mainland friends you see nowadays are promoting Deng's greatness and not Mao's. Mao was half decent during the Second World War, when the ruling KMT was extremely corrupted, a trait from its root from the warlord era.

Contrasted with the KMT in the 40s an 50s, the CCP was actually quite popular siding with the pheasants, and managed to win the civil war (KMT took refuge to Taiwan of course, and robbed their way as they escaped to the island). However, Mao proved to be quite a mess introducing disastrous economic policies one after another, leading to countrywide famine in China in the 60s an 70s.

Mainland Chinese were not allowed to leave China during Mao's days and were extremely poor, and many died from hunger.

It was Deng who got into power after Mao's death in 1976 and introduced completely different economic policies lifting China from a very poor country into what it is now. Even though Deng was jailed by Mao and his son handicapped by the Gang of Four (led by Mao's notorious wife Jiang Qing), after winning the power struggle, Deng chose to keep the party united, without dishonoring the dead chairman.

Regarding Chinese culture, it is quite complex and it's far more than just saving face (which derived from Confucius value on respect). To understand it, one should have a basic familiarity with Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism, as well as a deeper understanding of modern Chinese history.

Perhaps instead of just watching CNN (many Americans still have the old cold war mentality hence the news we get is quite biased against China), watch other channels including CCTV and Al Jazeera to get a more balanced worldview. The CCP may not be as evil and the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan monks may not be as great.

Last edited by observer; 02-07-2012 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:53 PM   #157
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #158
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"many died from hunger."

It's a bit more extreme than that
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:38 PM   #159
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"many died from hunger."

It's a bit more extreme than that
If you bother clicking the link I provided, you can read more about the subject. Of course, as mentioned, in addition to the failed economic policies, Mao was a little crazy siding with the Gang of Four with the Cultural Revolution and the Red Guard.

But Deng does deserve the credit lifting China out of famine, no matter how one looks at it. Sadly, most outside of Asia don't fully understand the subject and would only call everybody a communist, China, "Red China".

Unlike the Christian Right which is always playing fire with theology, or the NDP here in Canada which is always pro union, the uniqueness of the CCP system is that a leader can learn and reverse on policies.

Deng did exactly what Mao was absolutely against but could do so, as he managed to gain enough votes within the party to support him, over Hua who was handpicked by Mao.

For those who truly have no prejudice over the country and the people, it will be most helpful to engage in a healthy dialogue, with an open mind, which of course, involves certain degree of understanding and respect of the ruling system. It's really not helpful simply being too judgmental calling the people boring, materialistic, or uninteresting, and blame everything on one simple factor (the CCP).

After all, people are people. It's only opportunists like that Kung troublemaker trying to stir up sentiment to make a name for himself. But then, media sells and it is a dangerous path, as his ill conceived preaching does breed unhealthy nationalism and hatred dividing people.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:02 AM   #160
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The problem with CCP on Chinese culture is the culture revolution.

They wiped out many traditional values, practices, religious believes...etc in a decade. Then the CCP basically implemented a set of ideas of their own through education.

Therefore, many Chinese without receiving education high enough (often western educated) show very little depth in their reasoning. Such idea creates conflicts with HK and TW people who both preserved the traditional Chinese and incorporated modern western moral values.

What China needs to do, with its massive economic power, is to do a overhaul in their education system. Promote critical thinking, preserve the tradition or cultures that have been lost while we still can. Bring back the true Chinese culture and not just looking at paintings and pots in the Forbidden City museum... and open up a bit more to accept some moral values so China can be more compatible in the world scale
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:38 AM   #161
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I don't understand why we are talking about shit that happened 30-40 years ago. People in China were eating leather belts while Americans were dealing with the social movement. Has nothing to do with ONE Chinese prof calling hongers dogs. Same thing as a red neck calling all homosexual fags.

What China needs to do is stay the way they are, until the CHINESE people are fed up and act on it. I'm sure if China was as bad as some of you guys say it is, shit would have hit the fan already. I guess Canadians have adopted the American way of thinking that everyone should be like us, and if their not like us, they wanna be like us.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:44 AM   #162
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The Cultural Revolution was Mao's front for his power struggle, to enforce socialism in the country to prosecute Liu Shaoqi and Deng Xiaoping. It bred a generation of illiterates; however, since Deng came into power, he reversed most damages done by Mao, even allowing private property ownership rights which would be absolutely impossible under Mao.

Regarding Chinese culture, what exactly is it? While Confucianism emphasizes on the importance of ethics and morality, Buddhism and Taoism basically is faith talk. In fact, the latter especially breeds the belief in the supernatural, which is a big obstacle for the teaching of critical thinking.

It happens everywhere but it's sickening how many Chinese would fall for scams like Falung Gong.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:52 AM   #163
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I don't understand why we are talking about shit that happened 30-40 years ago. People in China were eating leather belts while Americans were dealing with the social movement. Has nothing to do with ONE Chinese prof calling hongers dogs. Same thing as a red neck calling all homosexual fags.

What China needs to do is stay the way they are, until the CHINESE people are fed up and act on it. I'm sure if China was as bad as some of you guys say it is, shit would have hit the fan already. I guess Canadians have adopted the American way of thinking that everyone should be like us, and if their not like us, they wanna be like us.
I think Canadians are better, being far less nationalistic than our friends down south. The prof, well, basically students wanted to vote him out (for swearing in class and for promoting violence), unfortunately, Peking University chose to keep him.

His style is more of a hardliner, more Mao than Deng. However, China is really not as bad as what we read in the west. We see many returning to the country for decent living and business opportunities.
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:02 AM   #164
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Observer do you go to China much? This isn't being confrontational, I am just wondering
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:29 AM   #165
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Observer do you go to China much? This isn't being confrontational, I am just wondering
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Yes, as we do business with various partners in China. Mainly the main cities though, Shanghai, Beijing, Hong Kong, etc. It's interesting to see a larger number of contacts relocating from Hong Kong to Shanghai and Beijing in the past decade for better opportunities.

Something no one would consider back in the days of the Cultural Revolution.
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:39 PM   #166
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Ah no wonder you are so pro-CCP. You only see the facade of it

Maybe you think American outlets only portray an "iron curtain" aspect of China, but to suggest that people should dismiss it in place of state owned news outlets that are run by China and other countries with human rights issues is kinda

It does bring an interesting perspective, and for me it's interesting to see someone buy right into what they are being sold. I always try to see things from all sides, so this is an interesting thread. Thanks for that
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:14 PM   #167
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Reading Skinny's post on China is like watching fox news talk about Iran.

Observer is trying to educate you about China history, you call him PRO-CCP
Ron Paul tries to educate American about Iran history, fox news calls him PRO IRAN.

He does business in China, so you instantly assumes he only sees the facade of it because he's told you history about China with "western" links.

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for me it's interesting to see someone buy right into what they are being sold
So tired of your stupid ass insults against people that have an opinion other than your own.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:57 PM   #168
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Ah no wonder you are so pro-CCP. You only see the facade of it

Maybe you think American outlets only portray an "iron curtain" aspect of China, but to suggest that people should dismiss it in place of state owned news outlets that are run by China and other countries with human rights issues is kinda

It does bring an interesting perspective, and for me it's interesting to see someone buy right into what they are being sold. I always try to see things from all sides, so this is an interesting thread. Thanks for that
To be honest SkinnyPupp, I feel I should be reading more news from CCTV but my Mandarin is not good enough to do so, unfortunately.

You probably think differently, I don't really see any country being all good or all evil. However, certain things are just inherently bad such as Falun Gong, theocracy and Creationism. Of course, if you ask me, that includes Fox News as fetched pointed out.

I don't think China or the US is an either or situation, if we are pro-CCP, then we must be against the US. We in Canada are in the position to freely criticize both. Radicals like that professor would like us to think that China is all good and the rest of the world all bad, but we don't need to follow him.

All I am saying is, China may not be as bad as we think, that's all. When evaluating China, I doubt anyone would object, that China has improved dramatically in the past 30 years, looking at only the facade or not. Perhaps you were not born before the Mao days when people from China would desperately swim to Hong Kong or Macao to find a new life.

Before making a judgment call, it helps to know a little about the history, I feel that if one doesn't know the difference between Deng and Mao, one should be a little more humble on Chinese affairs.

Last edited by observer; 02-07-2012 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:57 AM   #169
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Reading Skinny's post on China is like watching fox news talk about Iran.

Observer is trying to educate you about China history, you call him PRO-CCP
Ron Paul tries to educate American about Iran history, fox news calls him PRO IRAN.

He does business in China, so you instantly assumes he only sees the facade of it because he's told you history about China with "western" links.



So tired of your stupid ass insults against people that have an opinion other than your own.
Wow, holy fucking way to jump to conclusions... Well that's all I am going to say to you. You have obviously already blindly and stupidly made up your mind about anything I would ever say, considering you think I was "insulting" people because YOU think they have opinions that are different from my own (which by the way, I haven't even stated my opinion on ANYTHING in this thread)

For the original topic, here's another photo being shared around a lot on social media here



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