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Old 03-26-2012, 03:19 PM   #76
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Not fair.
So if a dude get's a gender transformation can he compete in female sports?

To me it seems unfair.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:20 PM   #77
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the real question is does he/she still have a penis? if it has a vagina, let it run, if its still sportin a mandinga then it shouldnt be allowed to run imo, kuz then its still a man.

also, are we allowed to call people fags without receiving points or ban?
I find it disgusting that you somehow claim you work in the public school system. I hope to god that if you are a teacher you get fired. Could have sworn you made a pretty dumb post in your thread, maybe one of the mods deleted it.

And yeah I'm kinda spilling it off for the fact that you think mental disabilities don't exist.

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Old 03-26-2012, 04:21 PM   #78
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Not fair.
So if a dude get's a gender transformation can he compete in female sports?

To me it seems unfair.
yes she can. There is a pro mountain biker that was male to female and competes with other females. Yeah some people complain, but they lose a majority of their muscle mass through hormone therapy.

Also RS disgusts me.

I've worked deeply with the LGBT community and they are people like anyone else. While I don't give a fuck for being PC the only reason people complain about PC is when they are trying to cover up their disgusting attitude towards these type of controversial topics.

If we keep pushing these people that choose these lifestyle choices to the corner, the more and more society will discriminate against these people.

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Old 03-26-2012, 04:23 PM   #79
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If it were up to me I wouldn't have any issues with a transgender contestant who has under gone the reassignment surgery participate.

But at the same time, I really don't have much of an issue if Miss Universe organization doesn't want her participating either, they are a private organization and if they have a set of rules that their contestants must be born female, so be it, its their private contest run and owned by Trump/NBC
isn't the whole idea of miss universe just dumb anyways? A bunch of dudes critiquing girls for who's the most beautiful and who has the best fake talent.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:41 PM   #80
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It's sad that people like you continue to exist, you're no better than racists demanding a segregated school system. I'll never understand the way your mind works and cannot begin to comprehend why you're so homophobic, but I feel very sorry for you. I can't imagine living with the burden of feeling such incredible and illogical hate must feel like...

Thankfully, I believe people like you will no longer exist in a century.

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Donald Trump is a pretty conservative, judgmental and close minded person based on the interviews he's done, not surprising he wouldn't allow someone like her to compete. You have a totally valid point though, it's his company, he can do what he likes however unethical it might be. The Americans that are his target demographic most likely think the same way he does too, so he's protecting what little value this pageant has.

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If it were up to me I wouldn't have any issues with a transgender contestant who has under gone the reassignment surgery participate.

But at the same time, I really don't have much of an issue if Miss Universe organization doesn't want her participating either, they are a private organization and if they have a set of rules that their contestants must be born female, so be it, its their private contest run and owned by Trump/NBC
I agree, completely. I don't know the Miss Universe rules, and I don't care to read them, but if they allow female who have had cosmetic surgery to compete there is no reason grounded in logic to block her from competing.

Let's be honest here, a male body builder pumping a massive amount of hormones and insulin into his system is totally synthetic molding of the human body, just like a transgender person.

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Oh yes, and every other contestant is running on god's ability to give with both hands.

These women have as much to do with natural beauty as nascar does with production models.

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Old 03-26-2012, 04:48 PM   #81
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The first time I met someone who had a sex change operation, I didn't know she used to be a man and I kept thinking "Something's odd about this woman" but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until someone told me later. Then it all made sense. She was pretty ugly though, imagine 250lb 6'4" ex-electrician named Charla. Still had the huge man-hands.

I'm all for the gay, lesbian, transgender or otherwise having the freedom to do what they want like the rest of us. However, if this is a private competition and the rules state "Must be naturally born female" then those are the rules.

As for if I'd tap that, Sorry, not for me.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:00 PM   #82
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The first time I met someone who had a sex change operation, I didn't know she used to be a man and I kept thinking "Something's odd about this woman" but I couldn't quite put my finger on it until someone told me later. Then it all made sense. She was pretty ugly though, imagine 250lb 6'4" ex-electrician named Charla. Still had the huge man-hands.

I'm all for the gay, lesbian, transgender or otherwise having the freedom to do what they want like the rest of us. However, if this is a private competition and the rules state "Must be naturally born female" then those are the rules.

As for if I'd tap that, Sorry, not for me.
I've often wondered how much more prevalent sex reassignment operations would be if the result was a more natural looking male/female. In Thai land and Brazil they seem pretty talented at giving a male fairly natural female features, no small task. Not so much in North America...

I wonder what her created pussy would feel like, that's probably a strange thought to have.. I need to seriously rein in my curiosity about everything...
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:04 PM   #83
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Shame there's still such close minded people in the world. Ah well, not worth my breath.

Good on your for those speaking up.

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I wonder what her created pussy would feel like, that's probably a strange thought to have.. I need to seriously rein in my curiosity about everything...
Hahaha gotta be careful with that curiosity:P
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:14 PM   #84
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It's sad that people like you continue to exist, you're no better than racists demanding a segregated school system. I'll never understand the way your mind works and cannot begin to comprehend why you're so homophobic, but I feel very sorry for you. I can't imagine living with the burden of feeling such incredible and illogical hate must feel like...

Thankfully, I believe people like you will no longer exist in a century.

Donald Trump is a pretty conservative, judgmental and close minded person based on the interviews he's done, not surprising he wouldn't allow someone like her to compete. You have a totally valid point though, it's his company, he can do what he likes however unethical it might be. The Americans that are his target demographic most likely think the same way he does too, so he's protecting what little value this pageant has.

hmm people seem to think not allowing a male, who mutilated themselves, in joining a contest for women is equated to not accepting what that person chose for themselves... its not

why should that line even be drawn? the two issues are very distinct.

this is simply a case of people feeling they need to be PC so as not to 'step on the toes' of one issue with something that is really unrelated (like ur knee jerk fail reaction :P)

for all you know Trump could very well be fully behind men/women who make the choice to alter their physiology into another (hell he used to support gay rights and partied with drag queens until he wanted to run Republican) but what does that have to do with his contest on judging a women's beauty?

I've no problem with this guy and his attempts into turning himself into something he's not, more power to ye, but ultimately, regardless of the changes he or anyone does to mask what they were born as that is still who they are even if they dont identify with it

(if you want to bring up hermpahroditism its very very rare and even then a childs body leans to one side and supposedly its undocumented to have someone where both "things" are functioning)

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:19 PM   #85
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isn't the whole idea of miss universe just dumb anyways? A bunch of dudes critiquing girls for who's the most beautiful and who has the best fake talent.
Yup, I agree all these pageants are pretty silly, but there is a market for them, personally I don't get the hoopla behind them, but to each their own. If someone wants to fund a contest themselves, be it Miss Universe, Miss Chinatown, Miss born in the back seat of a car, etc.... let them make their own rules for their own contest they are funding.

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I agree, completely. I don't know the Miss Universe rules, and I don't care to read them
According to the newspaper article I read the Miss Universe rules state contestants must be "natural born female", so really this is a private organization and contest, so that's their rules.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:44 PM   #86
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The fact that you refer to cosmetic surgery as mutilation and make the conscious choice to refer to her as a he, makes it difficult to take your post at all seriously. At least be mature enough to refer to her as a her, regardless of your perceptions, it's not an unreasonable thing to do in the spirit of progressing towards a world that accepts all people. If you don't have a problem with it, like you say you don't, I think you would do that..

Physically she has the appearance of a woman, mentally she has the identity of a woman, there's only a very very fine line left distinguishing her from being entirely female. It's not like a girl with fake tits, popping valiums is physical or chemically natural either, it's just a matter of degrees. Allowing her to compete has nothing to do with political correctness, it has to do with logic... we can agree to disagree though

Everything Trump does is for show, everything, he just puts on an act for whoever he's trying to impress at the moment. Given how judgmental he is of many people, I really question he's very tolerant, but that's beside the point. It's a private company, so they can do whatever they like within the law.

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Anyway, that's the end of my posting on the subject.

Whether a person be a man, woman, person in transition, gay, bi-sexual, lesbian or any combination of those things makes no difference to me. I don't know why it does to anyone, I truly feel sorry for the people for whom it does though.

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #87
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If someone wants to fund a contest themselves, be it Miss Universe, Miss Chinatown, Miss born in the back seat of a car, etc....

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Old 03-26-2012, 06:51 PM   #88
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The fact that you refer to cosmetic surgery as mutilation and make the conscious choice to refer to her as a he, makes it difficult to take your post at all seriously. At least be mature enough to refer to her as a her, regardless of your perceptions, it's not an unreasonable thing to do in the spirit of progressing towards a world that accepts all people. If you don't have a problem with it, like you say you don't, I think you would do that..

i accept their choice in life but i dont accept that they are female/male (depending on which operation they had) because they aren't...so i would still refer to a male as a he and a female as a she regardless of their, as you put it, cosmetic change

i wouldn't antagonize them about it though obviously
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:54 PM   #89
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:11 PM   #90
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Ousted Miss Universe Canada trans contestant Jenna Talackova born a woman, advocates say

Vancouver's Jenna Talackova was born a woman. That's what Vancouver-based Trans Alliance Society chair Marie Little and NDP MLA Spencer Chandra Herbert insist.

The 23-year-old Talackova made international headlines and found herself at the centre of controversy when she was disqualified from Miss Universe Canada 2012 on March 23. The pageant's website states that Talackova, who was one of 65 finalists chosen on March 12, will no longer compete "because she did not meet the requirements to compete despite having stated otherwise on her entry form".

According to news reports, the competition's rules state that contestants must be a "naturally born female". Although she reportedly filled out the entry form stating she was born female, she was removed from the Donald Trump–owned pageant when organizers identified her as a trans person.

In a video interview for the Miss International Queen Competition, a trans beauty pageant in Pattaya, Thailand, Talackova said she identified not as a trans person but as "a woman, with a history". She said she was certain she was female from about age four, underwent hormone therapy at age 14, and had surgery at age 19.

But advocates and activists argue that she was in fact born a woman.

"What happens when a child is born is the doctor looks at the genitals and writes 'M' or 'F' on the birth certificate," Little told the Georgia Straight by phone. "But I think the brain is at least an important an organ as the genitals. And every study I've seen indicates that the masculine and feminine structures of the brain are formed before birth. So she was born with a feminine brain."

Herbert agreed.

"I would say she is born female," he said by phone. "It's taken a while for science and society to catch up to that fact…. If you are a female, even if you've got male bits that you were born with, you have that right to transition, to be who you really are. Nature works in funny ways. Sometimes our minds are mismatched with our bodies, and science has shown that pretty clearly."

While separate pageants for trans people do exist, Little pointed out that such contests are not necessarily on par with mainstream competitions.

"Realistically, the prizes are not the same. The publicity is not the same," she said. "And even if a prospective employer in a modelling agency or whatever, if they see, 'Oh, you've won the Miss Trans Whatever' instead of 'You've won Miss Canada or whatever', they're going to cast you as a trans person in a movie, not as a woman. So I think this whole attempt to separate trans people into a separate community is really harmful discrimination."
Ousted Miss Universe Canada trans contestant Jenna Talackova born a woman, advocates say | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:30 PM   #91
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i respect transexual people for their choice...but at the same time I admit I still feel uncomfortable about it. I guess this is because I have never really talked/interacted with a transgendered individual before.

Would this unease be a form of homophobia..or is there another -phobia term for it?
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:36 PM   #92
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she's front page news on yahoo.ca
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:37 PM   #93
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i respect transexual people for their choice...but at the same time I admit I still feel uncomfortable about it. I guess this is because I have never really talked/interacted with a transgendered individual before.

Would this unease be a form of homophobia..or is there another -phobia term for it?
It's OK to be uncomfortable with something you're not familiar with. But as long as you are tolerant and cool about it, that's what makes you not a cunt.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:12 PM   #94
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It's OK to be uncomfortable with something you're not familiar with. But as long as you are tolerant and cool about it, that's what makes you not a cunt.
See thats the attitude the world needs. To quote the Black Eyed Peas.. "Where is the love"

Calling the woman, who identifies as a woman "he" or "it" is just wrong, it would be the same equivalent as calling an ethnic minority a offensive slang. Furthermore "it" denotes that a person, has no entitlement to a sense of identity as a person of gender and as a human being.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:45 PM   #95
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i accept their choice in life but i dont accept that they are female/male (depending on which operation they had) because they aren't...so i would still refer to a male as a he and a female as a she regardless of their, as you put it, cosmetic change

i wouldn't antagonize them about it though obviously
You don't think you are being antagonizing by calling her a "guy"?

Black Eyed Peas have another good song "One Tribe" that more people need to think along those lines. That and Genki Sudo's philosophy of "We Are All One" are good inspirations.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:46 PM   #96
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Let's get this straight. By some of your logic that Walter/Jenna is allowed to participate in a woman-intented contest for the reasons of acceptance.

That means if I am a guy, but trapped in a girl's body, I am allowed to go pee in the women's washroom?

Or put it another way. Can a normal girl compete in a transgender beauty contest in Thailand?

It's a private show. The organizers set the rules. Walter/Jenna lied in the application. The terms should have the right to disqualify her without notice.
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:56 PM   #97
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i respect transexual people for their choice...but at the same time I admit I still feel uncomfortable about it. I guess this is because I have never really talked/interacted with a transgendered individual before.

Would this unease be a form of homophobia..or is there another -phobia term for it?
It would be considered homophobia if you are uncomfortable being around them or talking to them. It would also be considered homophobia when you are making fun of people being gay, like your friends.

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Let's get this straight. By some of your logic that Walter/Jenna is allowed to participate in a woman-intented contest for the reasons of acceptance.

That means if I am a guy, but trapped in a girl's body, I am allowed to go pee in the women's washroom?

Or put it another way. Can a normal girl compete in a transgender beauty contest in Thailand?

It's a private show. The organizers set the rules. Walter/Jenna lied in the application. The terms should have the right to disqualify her without notice.
This is not even logic, this is basic personal opinion and acceptance.

Allowed or not allowed is considered by the majority of the people at the time. If they feel a guy going to a women's washroom is fine then it is.

But yes, I agree, these are contests and have specific rules. If the judges feel that a transgender does not qualify to be in the contest, then so be it. Public views and opinions will not change anything.

They already made a statement that, although she is not accepted in the contest does not mean they'll stop loving her.



I will call a transgender the proper term for what their sex is. I will call a homosexual male, he, and a lesbian, she.

People who call them "it" are ignorant and won't accept, but that is fine, you can't change people's opinions and decision. Some people just aren't as open minded.

This reminds me of Michael Jackson and all the interviews I've seen. People are so judgmental when it comes to these things. It's sad how the world is.
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #98
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You don't think you are being antagonizing by calling her a "guy"?

Black Eyed Peas have another good song "One Tribe" that more people need to think along those lines. That and Genki Sudo's philosophy of "We Are All One" are good inspirations.
im not calling him a guy to his face.... id refrain from any classifications in a conversation... not because i feel its wrong (because i dont) but simply because they may be offended

I would probably call him a "dude" though if we were on friendly terms but i use that term for females too

for someone that loves to go by science you must appreciate the fact that they are ultimately still male/female regardless of what they've done/had done to themselves...


unless we're having 2 separate conversations here.. 1) where you believe that i shun transsexuals and would love to offend them and 2) MY pov where im saying "more power to them but lets face it they're still a male/female so how can you expect a contest for a particular sex to bend over backwards for this group of males that believe they should be able to join in too" are we?

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Old 03-26-2012, 11:07 PM   #99
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It would be considered homophobia if you are uncomfortable being around them or talking to them. It would also be considered homophobia when you are making fun of people being gay, like your friends.
I'm sorry but this makes zero fucking sense....First, you are acknowledging a transgender as being the sex that they changed to....Then you are referring to them as homosexuals as well...How on earth does that make sense??????

So to make things clear, you want me to refer to this individual, who was born as a male but went through certain procedures to make said individual more feminin, a female. Yet, you are telling me that they are STILL homosexuals AFTER the procedures..............MY MIND IS FULL OF FUCK!!!

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Old 03-26-2012, 11:10 PM   #100
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Meh, she'll lose to some South American chick anyway
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