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Old 04-24-2012, 04:08 PM   #26
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wow she has no fckin heart

the american school system is just poor as our public school system
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Old 04-24-2012, 04:20 PM   #27
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Another source of evidence showing that teachers just don't give a fuck. If you're going to become a teacher, you should at least know how to deal with children. This relates back to the teachers strike not too long ago. I'm rather infuriated that they're cutting extra curricular activities. I guess they don't care about the kids enough to dedicate 2-3 hours a week to helping students.
Just another ignorant comment, i appreciate all the teachers who stay after schools and take hours of their own time to coach and do extra curricular things.
Right now, its a matter of teachers deciding whether or not they want to do those things or not. Nobody's forcing them, it's all in their own will. Sports, Grad, Fundraisers, it all takes a lot of time, and they're treated like shit by their employers(govt) even when they've gone the extra mile.


On the other hand, i hope the kid can watch that video one day and call his dad a hero . Also hope those teachers are banned from teaching and penalized appropriately.
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:00 PM   #28
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its probably for the same reason Quagmire dislikes Bryan in family guy. Don't worry about it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:17 PM   #29
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I'm sure there are still LOTS of teachers who want to go the extra mile, but when they're being treated like shit by their employer I can understand why they'd lose a lot of that incentive.
My comment did come off as biase and rather disrespectful to the teachers that do care. But when I see videos or read stories of teachers not giving a shit or not caring about their job it kind of puts the entire union to shame.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:26 PM   #30
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Teachers aren't paid for the time they commit after school running clubs, teams, giving students extra help. I have had a bitter, miserable old bastard as a teacher and he was never willing to stay after class because he was not paid for it. I however, also had dozens of teachers who loved teaching and were more than willing to dedicate hours and hours of their personal time to working with kids. I had a couple teachers who made massive impressions on me and I'm in still contact with till this day (I'm 24). You're infuriated because they aren't volunteering their time anymore, because they want to renegotiate their contract, that's gratitude right there.
They are paid for the extracurricular activities they do. It's called summer.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:37 PM   #31
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They are paid for the extracurricular activities they do. It's called summer.
What the fuck are you talking about?

Teachers do NOT earn an income over summer.

If you're implying that generous vacation time is compensation for extra hours worked during the school year, then I hope a teacher never spent time helping you after class, coached you on a team or supervised a club you participated in, because you're an ungrateful POS.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:41 PM   #32
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What the fuck are you talking about?

Teachers do NOT earn an income over summer.
Obviously, I know they don't get paid in the summer, technically.

They get paid a full salary with full benefits and pension and everything else and they get 2 months off.
That is the fuck i'm talking about. What other job do you get two months off?
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:44 PM   #33
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If you're implying that generous vacation time is compensation for extra hours worked during the school year, then I hope a teacher never spent time helping you after class, coached you on a team or supervised a club you participated in, because you're an ungrateful POS.
And yes I am implying that their EXTREMELY generous vacation time is compensation for extra hours worked.
And i'm not an ungrateful POS. That is simply my opinon.

Lets not forget only a handful of teachers actually do extra curricular activities. (at least in my highschool at the time)
I'm not saying there are not awesome teachers, it's just a lot of them complain about a lot of shit and don't realize how good they have it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:47 PM   #34
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Obviously, I know they don't get paid in the summer, technically.

They get paid a full salary with full benefits and pension and everything else and they get 2 months off.
That is the fuck i'm talking about. What other job do you get two months off?
There are many professional positions that offer eight weeks or more paid time off per year. Teachers aren't even paid for that time however, it's almost the equivalent of a seasonal lay off.

Generous unpaid time off is by no means equivalent to compensation for time offered voluntarily to students.
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:54 PM   #35
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blame unions basically.
Lol you mean "smoke cigarettes and stand around"
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:56 PM   #36
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There are many professional positions that offer eight weeks or more paid time off per year. Teachers aren't even paid for that time however, it's almost the equivalent of a seasonal lay off.

Generous unpaid time off is by no means equivalent to compensation for time offered voluntarily to students.
Interesting, which professions? I'm not trying to be smart, i'm actually curious to know which professions get 8 weeks off.

The whole point of becoming a teacher in my opinion is to help students. And by helping them after or before school they are doing their job. And as compensation they can look forward to two months vacation + their sick days they MUST use.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:01 PM   #37
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Interesting, which professions? I'm not trying to be smart, i'm actually curious to know which professions get 8 weeks off.

The whole point of becoming a teacher in my opinion is to help students. And by helping them after or before school they are doing their job. And as compensation they can look forward to two months vacation + their sick days they MUST use.
My Mom is an executive at a bank, she's given ten weeks off paid.

At my former position as a construction foreman, I was given 12 weeks off paid.

British Columbia Registered Nurses, my future position, are given 4-9 weeks off based on seniority.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:29 PM   #38
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What the fuck does that have to do with it?

If your boss said to you "Well, we've decided to scrap the bonus plan, and you're not getting a raise next year" would you really be motivated to put in more effort than absolutely necessary at work?
I'd bet you'd start looking for a new job, and half assing the time you had left at this one.
if you were allowed to be paid based on performance as a teacher, you would maybe work harder at getting better performance out of your students.
instead you get paid the same as joe shmoe who does the bare minimum, which gives you no incentive to work harder than him.
hes not getting fired anyway, and you're not getting a raise anyway.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:41 PM   #39
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if you were allowed to be paid based on performance as a teacher, you would maybe work harder at getting better performance out of your students.
instead you get paid the same as joe shmoe who does the bare minimum, which gives you no incentive to work harder than him.
hes not getting fired anyway, and you're not getting a raise anyway.
I like the idea of performance pay for teachers, but I don't like any of the possible methods of implementing it.

Teachers could offer increasingly easy tests to maximize raises if they were allowed to maintain total control of the classrooms. If standardized testing were implemented to judge the performance of students without bias, then teachers will start teaching to the test and I don't think that benefits students in any way.

I'd like to see getting rid of bad teachers become easier, but that's about it.

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Old 04-24-2012, 09:55 PM   #40
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my mom gets 8 weeks paid vacation, and she's a janitor...


the only difference is you dont hear about it on the news all the time
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:57 PM   #41
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I like the idea of performance pay for teachers, but I don't any of the possible methods of implementing it.

Teachers could offer increasingly easy tests to maximize raises if they were allowed to maintain total control of the classrooms. If standardized testing were implemented to judge the performance of students without bias, then teachers will start teaching to the test and I don't think that benefits students in any way.

I'd like to see getting rid of bad teachers become easier, but that's about it.


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if you were allowed to be paid based on performance as a teacher, you would maybe work harder at getting better performance out of your students.
instead you get paid the same as joe shmoe who does the bare minimum, which gives you no incentive to work harder than him.
hes not getting fired anyway, and you're not getting a raise anyway.
oh trust me...
China does the performance to compensation thing for teachers.. and its all good and nice until
A) like mind bomber said, teaching to the tests
B) when a student under performs or is draggin the class average down, the teacher gets very personal with the student, meeting with parents etc etc etc
and all the low performing students will be kicked around the different classes or "homerooms" like we have here, and @ extreme cases, being kicked out of the school.

ya... -.-
not really a solution...

you already see what asian parents do in vancouver, trying to put their children in the "best" high schools, now imagine if they had the performance/compensation system for teachers -.-
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:39 PM   #42
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There are many professional positions that offer eight weeks or more paid time off per year. Teachers aren't even paid for that time however, it's almost the equivalent of a seasonal lay off.

Generous unpaid time off is by no means equivalent to compensation for time offered voluntarily to students.
Name any job that you can literally walk into after finishing school and get 8 weeks off, and paid for it. You won't be able to name one.

It took my dad 25 years to get to the point where he has been for the last little while for vacation (60 days).


Point is, when you take into account that a "yearly" salary for a teacher is in the high 40's starting and also take into account they get 2 months off as well as pretty awesome working hours I don't see what there really is to complain about. You "work" less than 6 hours a day and the rest is prep you can do at home. And once you have been doing the job for a while lesson plans stay the same year to year and less prep is needed.


Now back to the original post. I have a sister who is handicapped and was treated poorly and made fun of by a few students here and there when I was in HS which I promptly took care of being the older brother, but never had any issues with teachers. They all loved her and enjoyed teaching her each day. That being said I also went to a private school so that may have had something to do with it.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:40 PM   #43
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My Mom is an executive at a bank, she's given ten weeks off paid.

At my former position as a construction foreman, I was given 12 weeks off paid.

British Columbia Registered Nurses, my future position, are given 4-9 weeks off based on seniority.
All jobs that take years of schooling and work to get to that position where you get that much time off. Your argument is invalid.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:43 PM   #44
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:21 PM   #45
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Name any job that you can literally walk into after finishing school and get 8 weeks off, and paid for it. You won't be able to name one.

It took my dad 25 years to get to the point where he has been for the last little while for vacation (60 days).


Point is, when you take into account that a "yearly" salary for a teacher is in the high 40's starting and also take into account they get 2 months off as well as pretty awesome working hours I don't see what there really is to complain about. You "work" less than 6 hours a day and the rest is prep you can do at home. And once you have been doing the job for a while lesson plans stay the same year to year and less prep is needed.


Now back to the original post. I have a sister who is handicapped and was treated poorly and made fun of by a few students here and there when I was in HS which I promptly took care of being the older brother, but never had any issues with teachers. They all loved her and enjoyed teaching her each day. That being said I also went to a private school so that may have had something to do with it.
You can not walk into a teaching job after finishing school, you must TOC for atleast 4 year first, then MAYBE you might get something part time, if you happen to get full time, you start at 37 thousand a year with a bachelors.

so if you think of those 4 years as an apprentiship, only after they finish theyre only making 17 bucks an hour.

the thing about teaching is the pay ramps up very quickly after every year, BUT, there is a lot of pain to be had on the way there.

5 years of school, plus 4 years of part time TOC, is almost a 10 year investmet only to start off with 37k, they deserve every damn penny they earn. Imagin having to babysit 30 kids a day for 10 months a year.

imo 10 years to invest into a teaching career isnt even worth it, may as well go into medicine. Teachers dont get paid nearly enough, until they get a masters and have 10+ years of full time, which then they make 80k a year, which I think is fair,

you are vastly misinformed my friend.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:25 PM   #46
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All jobs that take years of schooling and work to get to that position where you get that much time off. Your argument is invalid.
My argument is totally invalid, you're right..

I was 20 when I became a foreman and had no education relevant to my trade. I was fortunate, no denying that. My experience wasn't unique, however.

I wasn't making an argument that you could enter those positions without an education, so....

Last edited by MindBomber; 04-25-2012 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:02 AM   #47
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All jobs that take years of schooling and work to get to that position where you get that much time off. Your argument is invalid.
I get 6 weeks paid vacation working at a warehouse.

Anyways haven't read much of the thread.

Only way to fix this is better primary education in relation to those with metntal illness.,
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:33 AM   #48
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So we have a nurse defending teachers; big surprise there. Cut from the same cloth of overcompensation, and self-entitlement.

Don't get me wrong - many great teachers and nurses out there, but they seem to be the exception, not the rule these days.

Also, to say teachers donít get paid for the summer is a bunch of bullshit. In a salaried position, you have a yearly salary, and you do a particular amount of work to earn it. Just so happens, teachers have 2 months off to twiddle their thumbs (or start a business, travel the world, spend quality time with their family) unlike many other entry-level (or any level) positions. Also, many teachers have their salary broken up into 12 monthly payments, so they are technically being paid all year like everyone else.

If itís a surprise to anyone who chooses a career as a teacher that they have time off in the summer, then they probably shouldnít be in the work category of people transferring knowledge to other humans.

In fact the opposite is generally true. People specifically choose the career because they are lazy fucks, and are more than happy with the salary under those terms. Then after some work, it becomes time to carry around the picket signs, and bitch about how they donít get paid for 2 months.

Fortunately, there are many summer teaching opportunities locally and abroad for those who would prefer to Ďmake money all year long.í

Performance based pay works in any forum, and it could be implemented in teaching. A combination of test scores, student reviews, formal reviews, academic contributions, etc. could make up a portion of some performance-based compensation system. Iíd be happy to design the implementation strategy - good luck getting that one past the unions.

BTW MindBomber, what the fuck kind of trade hires a foreman with virtually no experience or education? Thatís not called being fortunate, itís called Employment Equity; mom taking good care of the boss manís banking transactions; or going to the rigs, banking a pile of unpaid overtime, being laid off for 12 weeks and calling the banked overtime a regular wage. Not sure which of the 3 categories you fall in, but none of them are really Ďfortunate.í

If you were fortunate enough to be handed 12 weeks of vacation, a good salary, and a managerial position with no education at 20, all because of your charm and good looks, I would certainly say you are unique.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:29 AM   #49
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I dunno....getting a 15% raise and a $4000 signing bonus last time is not what most people get when their contract expires. Both sides this time have valid points. Teachers are not the only ones, many employees work voluntary overtime with no pay. Many of these employees don't have the type of benifits, pensions and pay that the teachers do. It's the way things are these days.
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Old 04-25-2012, 05:36 AM   #50
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So we have a nurse defending teachers; big surprise there. Cut from the same cloth of overcompensation, and self-entitlement.

Don't get me wrong - many great teachers and nurses out there, but they seem to be the exception, not the rule these days.

Also, to say teachers don’t get paid for the summer is a bunch of bullshit. In a salaried position, you have a yearly salary, and you do a particular amount of work to earn it. Just so happens, teachers have 2 months off to twiddle their thumbs (or start a business, travel the world, spend quality time with their family) unlike many other entry-level (or any level) positions. Also, many teachers have their salary broken up into 12 monthly payments, so they are technically being paid all year like everyone else.

If it’s a surprise to anyone who chooses a career as a teacher that they have time off in the summer, then they probably shouldn’t be in the work category of people transferring knowledge to other humans.

In fact the opposite is generally true. People specifically choose the career because they are lazy fucks, and are more than happy with the salary under those terms. Then after some work, it becomes time to carry around the picket signs, and bitch about how they don’t get paid for 2 months.

Fortunately, there are many summer teaching opportunities locally and abroad for those who would prefer to ‘make money all year long.’

Performance based pay works in any forum, and it could be implemented in teaching. A combination of test scores, student reviews, formal reviews, academic contributions, etc. could make up a portion of some performance-based compensation system. I’d be happy to design the implementation strategy - good luck getting that one past the unions.

BTW MindBomber, what the fuck kind of trade hires a foreman with virtually no experience or education? That’s not called being fortunate, it’s called Employment Equity; mom taking good care of the boss man’s banking transactions; or going to the rigs, banking a pile of unpaid overtime, being laid off for 12 weeks and calling the banked overtime a regular wage. Not sure which of the 3 categories you fall in, but none of them are really ‘fortunate.’

If you were fortunate enough to be handed 12 weeks of vacation, a good salary, and a managerial position with no education at 20, all because of your charm and good looks, I would certainly say you are unique.
I'm not a nurse, yet. Regardless, my opinion is irrelevant of any future ties to a union I might have. I'm not a big fan of the BCTF or any teachers union, because they actively prevent bad teachers from being dismissed.

I disagree that a performance based pay scale could be made to function in the education system. As I said, standardized tests are a detriment to students in my opinion and teachers could not be allowed to write tests under that system. Student reviews, maybe at the university level, but the opinions of a teenager aren't overly reliable. Even at the university level though, teacher rating would be closely linked to the end grade in the course. Academic contributions, as in, submitting papers to peer reviewed journals?

I didn't earn my foreman position based on employment equity, it was earned based on skill, hard work and well times job openings that allowed me to move up quickly.

Last edited by MindBomber; 04-25-2012 at 05:58 AM.
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