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Old 03-07-2013, 09:41 PM   #9701
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Originally Posted by Nodnarb View Post
No, it isn't that simple.

You don't bench your top tier dmen or forwards. You bench those who will fight harder for secondary positions. Ya they might make mistakes but the positives far outweigh the negatives so in the long run you're good..
I guess different coaches have different beliefs. just like opinions

look at Cam Barker, potential top 4 Dman
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:44 PM   #9702
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fire AV and hire coach Bombay

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Old 03-07-2013, 09:58 PM   #9703
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:02 PM   #9704
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you're an idiot. why would you bench our best defenseman for 1 game?

He plays against the opposings teams top line every fuckin game. Thats not a easy task. You make vancouver fans look bad.
How daft are you?

Anybody who watches the Canucks' knows Edler is known for his offensive ability, and prowess, and if anything he's been struggling on both ends of the rink thus far this season. He's been blessed during his career to have Salo and company around to take most of the defensive burden and cover for his mistakes.

By the way, every single defense pair plays against the top line every single game (its just a matter of how much) It really isn't in the playoffs where there are specific defined defense pairings for specific lines for every single shift. Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Tanev(this one is debatable) play more of their minutes against the top line of the opposing team more than he does; watch a couple games closely and you'll maybe get it through your thick skull. Don't get me wrong, Edler has a rocket shot and is a big guy, but the skills hes showing us right now is that hes a FORWARD. He doesn't even body players anymore, or clear the crease, he can't even stay with his own man.. all components a defenseman needs to do EVERY single game, no excuse.

Playing in the NHL was never easy, he's paid millions to do his job, and hes gonna be making 5 million a year (~400k more than anyone else). Tanev makes less than a million and hes playing better than him. Edler is supposed to be our guy this year and hes been playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman.

He cost us the game tonight (no not just the last play, he was fucking horrendous the whole game), the Calgary game, and the Edmonton game earlier in the season (there's probably more that I cannot recall). I'm not saying Edler should be punished for his mistakes, but he needs to have a message sent to him so he can get his head out of his ass. Lately he's been taking bad penalties, turning it over constantly in our end of the rink, and missing about 75% of his shots. Rinse and repeat and this summarizes his play as of late. He's really lucky Ballard and Bieksa are out of the line-up or else he would of been benched already (~1 game).. but then again its AV..btw, its not like benching has been done before by other coaches (some examples: Subban and I believe Vlasic and a couple others). How AV even lets him participate in the shootout is beyond me.

The bar has been raised for him ever since he signed that huge contract and he isn't living up to the potential we've seen in him. If he gets his shit together, he can be a beast but its not like we haven't given him opportunities to become the Norris Calibre defenseman he has the potential to be.

And we were comparing him to Lidstrom?

tldr;

edler playing like shit right now,
amazing offensive upside, average defensively
costing us games
bieksa(yes i know hes injured), tanev, and hammer play against the opposing teams top-line more than he does
needs to be sent a message
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:07 PM   #9705
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How daft are you?

Anybody who watches the Canucks' knows Edler is known for his offensive ability, and prowess, and if anything he's been struggling on both ends of the rink thus far this season. He's been blessed during his career to have Salo and company around to take most of the defensive burden and cover for his mistakes.

By the way, every single defense pair plays against the top line every single game (its just a matter of how much) It really isn't in the playoffs where there are specific defined defense pairings for specific lines for every single shift. Bieksa, Hamhuis, and Tanev(this one is debatable) play more of their minutes against the top line of the opposing team more than he does; watch a couple games closely and you'll maybe get it through your thick skull. Don't get me wrong, Edler has a rocket shot and is a big guy, but the skills hes showing us right now is that hes a FORWARD. He doesn't even body players anymore, or clear the crease, he can't even stay with his own man.. all components a defenseman needs to do EVERY single game, no excuse.

Playing in the NHL was never easy, he's paid millions to do his job, and hes gonna be making 5 million a year (~400k more than anyone else). Tanev makes less than a million and hes playing better than him. Edler is supposed to be our guy this year and hes been playing like a 3rd pairing defenseman.

He cost us the game tonight (no not just the last play, he was fucking horrendous the whole game), the Calgary game, and the Edmonton game earlier in the season (there's probably more that I cannot recall). I'm not saying Edler should be punished for his mistakes, but he needs to have a message sent to him so he can get his head out of his ass. Lately he's been taking bad penalties, turning it over constantly in our end of the rink, and missing about 75% of his shots. Rinse and repeat and this summarizes his play as of late. He's really lucky Ballard and Bieksa are out of the line-up or else he would of been benched already (~1 game).. but then again its AV..btw, its not like benching has been done before by other coaches (some examples: Subban and I believe Vlasic and a couple others). How AV even lets him participate in the shootout is beyond me.

The bar has been raised for him ever since he signed that huge contract and he isn't living up to the potential we've seen in him. If he gets his shit together, he can be a beast but its not like we haven't given him opportunities to become the Norris Calibre defenseman he has the potential to be.

And we were comparing him to Lidstrom?

tldr;

edler playing like shit right now,
amazing offensive upside, average defensively
costing us games
bieksa(yes i know hes injured), tanev, and hammer play against the opposing teams top-line more than he does
needs to be sent a message
even shorter version

Edler is a DEFENSEMAN.. please play D
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #9706
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I wouldn't say he cost us the game today.. We only scored one goal lol. There's no secondary scoring on this team at all
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #9707
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wheres the trade luongo people at ?
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:12 PM   #9708
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wheres the trade luongo people at ?
Luongo has played better than Schnoo.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #9709
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wheres the trade luongo people at ?
Smart move by management keeping Luongo out of the spot light, he was clearly the Canucks MVP during our cup run.
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:41 PM   #9710
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wheres the trade luongo people at ?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:09 PM   #9711
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I really miss Ehroff. One of the best trades MG made but also one of the stupidest decisions to let him go. He made our top line dominate
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:11 PM   #9712
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Edler's back still have problems, he admit he might never be 100% ever again. Maybe he played through injury to push for $$$$.


LA won with 8th seed because they played in the toughest division last year. Everyone knew they were Cup contenders 'on paper'. We all know who the real LA kings are when they gear up. They were lazy during regular season because once they made it to the playoff they knew how much damage they can do. Mike Richards arrival gave them confidence.

I watched the 2012 LA kings championship DVD, it was a happy ending
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #9713
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Just wanted to see what it takes to win other than looking good on paper. Coaching change and bringing Jeff Carter in nailed it.

FS: Canucks jersey
WTB: Kopitar jersey
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:38 AM   #9714
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I really miss Ehroff. One of the best trades MG made but also one of the stupidest decisions to let him go. He made our top line dominate
I wonder if we can trade Ballard for him, apparently hes not playing up to Buffalos expectations and at a 4mil cap hit, id take him back.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:52 AM   #9715
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I wonder if we can trade Ballard for him, apparently hes not playing up to Buffalos expectations and at a 4mil cap hit, id take him back.
for 10 years?

no thanks jeff
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:59 AM   #9716
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Ehrhoff was hard to keep. He wanted a lot more money and at that time Bieksa was the better player to sign first. We gave him Bieksa money or more actually at a higher cap hit. But Ehrhoff wanted more total $. So he signed one of those 10 year long contract to keep the cap hit low.

I think his signing bonus was 5 million or something already?

Anyways, out of all of our dman, Edler needs to play like the #1 dman he is and the money he is going to be earning. He lacks urgency and just looks like he's sleeping out there. Imagine if Tanev has the skills, strength, and size of Edler? And hanging a cigarette out of his mouth and making those give and go passes with the Sedins?
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:46 AM   #9717
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If we were going to give Garrison $4....point 6? anyways, we might as well have just given Ehrhoff his $40m over 10.

Everyone says that's a bad deal but they're all forgetting that that's a $4m cap hit for a potential 50-point defenseman...and that's RIDICULOUS. Sorry but that's an amazing deal. No, I don't care about the term because the last years of the deal are cheap and he only has a limited NTC (which I believe means he can name like 6 teams he doesn't want to be traded to or something). Yes, he has some stupid $10m salary in the first two years but that's for the owners to think about and Aquaman is rich as fuck and could give a shit about the difference between the money he could've paid Ehrhoff and the money he's paying Garrison.

I said when he signed in Buffalo that that was a great deal and I don't know why the Canucks didn't do it. It's another one of those cap circumventing deals and as fans, all you have to know is that Ehrhoff is a top-pairing, top power play defenseman that's not terrible in his own end and ONLY COSTS $4m A YEAR. We have FIVE defensemen making more than that. That is CHEAP. It's ridiculous that people think that's was a bad deal. And if he signed for $40m in Buffalo, maybe he would've taken a little less to stay in Vancouver. Maybe a couple less years? Maybe $250,000 less? Who knows but it would've been a great deal and we would've had at LEAST 5 years of our top-6 looking like

Edler-Ehrhoff
Bieksa-Hamhuis
Tanev-Ballard-Alberts-whatever

That's a stable top-4 barring injury and Ehrhoff was no less durable than any of our other D.
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Old 03-08-2013, 01:55 AM   #9718
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for 10 years?

no thanks jeff
Its 2 years less than Luongos contact so why not
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:16 AM   #9719
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Sounds like CDC around here........
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:18 AM   #9720
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I agree, letting Ehrhoff go was not a good idea.

A $4m cap hit was a steal and imo the 10 year length wasn't that bad either. I would have given even more for fewer years if that was possible.

10 years from now, $4 will not be that much if you look at how fast the cap rose since the last lockout. The actual cap this season is about $60m and right after the last lockout, it was $39m. $4m now is equivalent to $2.6m in 05-06. Imagine locking up someone like Ehrhoff at $2.6m for 10 years. That's a steal.

And I'd rather have Ehrhoff's contract than Garrison's. IMO Garrison has been a giant disappointment. I can't count how many times he shoots the puck wide every game.

I still think AV needs to go but there's only half a season left so I don't think it's gonna happen. I'm guessing this is his last chance to win the cup with this group. If they don't make the finals, I can see him getting fired.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:43 AM   #9721
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Ehrhoff played with the Sedins, got an assload of points and cashed in somewhere else. Oh, he's not putting up the same offensive numbers elsewhere? Imagine that... lol

MG is opposed to long term contracts and Lu's was the only one he'd offer (I have a feeling Aquilini's had a lot to do with it). I still think letting Ehrhoff walk was the right decision.

And all people do around here is talk shit about new D. Just like Ballard last year. Many of you bitched about him last year and now have a massive boner for him. Give Garrison some time before you make judgment.

Same with Kesler. I've read, "He'll never return to old form. He's an injury magnet etc." The guy played one game and fractured his foot. Give the guy a freaking chance to get into game shape and make an impact before putting him out to pasture. I swear my 5 year old daughter has more patience than a lot of RS. And she's not as patient as my 3 year old!
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:47 AM   #9722
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The drop in the Sedins numbers happened when ehroff left. Not a coincidence.

Rumor was he wanted 6 mill 6 years.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:11 AM   #9723
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letting ehrhoff walk was the right idea given the money/term he wanted but you can't deny the fact that he and the sedins had a mutual benefit playing with each other, especially on the PP.

its no coincidence that the sedins and our PP numbers dropped off after his departure. edler has all the talent to be a great PP guy but its his hesitation with his decision making thats killing him and the team.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:13 AM   #9724
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Just because you're a #1 D-man on a team, doesn't mean you cannot nor should not be benched. Look at Dallas this year, Goligoski had to be scratched a few times because his defensive and offensive play was terrible.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:20 AM   #9725
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You guys have to remember at the time, we still had Salo, so it didn't seem so bad losing Ehrhoff. And then after losing Salo, we'd figure Garrison would be more effective.

It's easy to look back now and say we should have kept so-and-so, and not signed so-and-so.
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