Ethnic rule riles Surrey soccer mom

[parm104]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I have, but not here.

When I played in Brazil, in a school league, there were refugees from Africa, Argentinians, even some Americans and Europeans. There was no bullshit. That may be predominant here, but sure as hell wasn't where I came from.

And, oh, by the way, Brazil is more multicultural than Canada, and we don't have these immigrant ghettos you guys have here.

You guys? Don't you live here too? Your profile says "Surrey"....

[?uestlove]

god damn it i wanted to join that team

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I have, but not here.

When I played in Brazil, in a school league, there were refugees from Africa, Argentinians, even some Americans and Europeans. There was no bullshit. That may be predominant here, but sure as hell wasn't where I came from.

And, oh, by the way, Brazil is more multicultural than Canada, and we don't have these immigrant ghettos you guys have here.

First off, I wouldn't call segregated leagues predominant.

I've been involved in athletics my entire life and participated in five different non-scholastic leagues, none of them were set aside for a specific race or religious group. Having lived in British Columbia my entire life, this is the first time of heard of such a thing. Frankly, I'm shocked and confused by the fact that they exist at all.

I don't see how a scholastic league could be segregated period, unless the school itself is and only competes at other schools that are. I know of religious private schools in British Columbia, but not any that only accept a certain race, so our schools are exactly the same.

Second of all, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of a ghetto. I'm not aware of any area in British Columbia where immigrants are forced by poverty to live in a specific slum.

-Surrey and Abbotsford are not a ghettos because of the large South Asian communities, they certainly are not the best areas in the lower mainland, but that's a result of geography. The housing prices are basically comparable to many other areas in BC.
-Richmond is not a ghetto because of the large Chinese community, it's a moderately affluent and really quite nice area all around.
-North Vancouver is not a ghetto because of the large Middle Eastern community, it's also quite an affluent area.

[AzNightmare]

Originally Posted by rsx

If non-indo canadians are a threat to their league in terms of skill levels, then they should tier it like any other sports league. I don't see the problem here other than outright racism.

There are many other soccer leagues that can accommodate those that are non-indo Canadians. So I don't see why this league needs to cater to everyone. This one's made just for indo-Canadians, and if they intended to keep it like that as a community thing, it would be pointless to create tiers, simply because their not that kind of league. And only big organized leagues have tiers.

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I have, but not here.

When I played in Brazil, in a school league, there were refugees from Africa, Argentinians, even some Americans and Europeans. There was no bullshit. That may be predominant here, but sure as hell wasn't where I came from.

And, oh, by the way, Brazil is more multicultural than Canada, and we don't have these immigrant ghettos you guys have here.

Well if it's a bunch of Brazilians playing, I don't think they really need to restrict any type of people since Brazilians are pretty much at the top of soccer.

But anyway, I assume when you say school league, it's basically students from the school? But then it's basically the same thing. Only players from the schools are allowed to participate. How is this any different in logic? The league is only accepting certain players.


Like I said earlier, this is partially community purposes, and partially to control the skill level, and not have a team of Europeans (or Brazilians) go and destroy every team. To call it racism is silly, as each teams are allowed up to 4 "imports".

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

First generation immigrants tend to segregate themselves, while the second generation is much more interested in associating with all groups.

Those are just my thoughts on this very specific case; generally speaking, I hate when someone says, "go back to XXXXX."

you are generalizing, but it's true. 2nd generation tend to assimilate and not segregate.

[Harvey Specter]

I feel the issue with the first generation is they have old school mentality and some of them have issues with the English language.I have relatives who want to blend in but they lack the social skills and if they try to blend in with broken English they're called "fobs" so they resort back to communicating in their own language and with people of the same background. Can't really blame them because i'm sure if we moved to a foreign we would resort to meeting people who spoke English at first until we fully learned the language. The difference is we're willing to do that, some older folk try to learn the language but give up and go back to speaking the language they're more comfortable speaking.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by parm104

I see no reason to join a league that is independent and private and then to complain about the way they conduct things. It's one of those situations where you are not forced to go and play there. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think there is a shortage of players in ANY of the public soccer leagues. Surrey United, Peace Arch Soccer to name a few, are still thriving public soccer leagues.

Serious question not being a troll, what is your take on turbans in legion halls? Legion halls are private and have there own way of doing things yet they were forced to change the way they had been doing things since they formed to accommodate a minority group. Although not exactly the same issue the principals really aren't that different.

[dbaz]

i really dont like the "indo" or "chinese" only leagues. the fact they allow leagues for certain people only is bullshit. canada is supposed to be multicultural. people would complain about racism and shit if caucasians would form a "white" only league. but they seems to be fine when they do it. should just eliminate these leagues and mix it up with everyone.

[saucywoman]

Originally Posted by dbaz

people would complain about racism and shit if caucasians would a "white" only league. but they seems to be fine when they do it.

QFT white only leagues are not allowed so why can other ethnicities do it and it's fine?

Lomac search out the radio interview on Monday morning and you should hear more of the story

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by parm104

You guys? Don't you live here too? Your profile says "Surrey"....

So? I don't follow. It's a deep-rooted issue. Is it my issue too?

I mean, no hate on East Indians, most are really friendly, especially towards Brazilians, but come on people.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Second of all, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the concept of a ghetto. I'm not aware of any area in British Columbia where immigrants are forced by poverty to live in a specific slum.

-Surrey and Abbotsford are not a ghettos because of the large South Asian communities, they certainly are not the best areas in the lower mainland, but that's a result of geography. The housing prices are basically comparable to many other areas in BC.
-Richmond is not a ghetto because of the large Chinese community, it's a moderately affluent and really quite nice area all around.
-North Vancouver is not a ghetto because of the large Middle Eastern community, it's also quite an affluent area.

I hate quoting Wikipedia, but this is pretty much my definition of ghetto:

"A ghetto is a part of a city predominantly occupied by a particular ethnic group that may be looked down upon for various reasons, especially because of social or economic issues, or because they have been forced to live there (e.g. the Jewish Ghettos in Europe).

The term was originally used in Venice derived from the word Borghetto, meaning Little Borgo, a cluster of homes and buildings often outside Italian city walls, to describe the area where Jews, tradespeople or agricultural workers were compelled to live. In rural Italy, Borghetto is not necessarily a pejorative term."

That's also a ghetto, and my point stands. I think you're the one confusing ghettos with slums.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by dbaz

i really dont like the "indo" or "chinese" only leagues. the fact they allow leagues for certain people only is bullshit. canada is supposed to be multicultural. people would complain about racism and shit if caucasians would form a "white" only league. but they seems to be fine when they do it. should just eliminate these leagues and mix it up with everyone.

Originally Posted by saucywoman

QFT white only leagues are not allowed so why can other ethnicities do it and it's fine?

Lomac search out the radio interview on Monday morning and you should hear more of the story

It has NOTHING to do with the colour of the skin!!! I've stated this already......YES!! Having a 'white only' league would absolutely be racist!!! HOWEVER, having a 'Canadian' only league is absolutely fine and NOT racist. It's the exact same thing as having a 'Christian only' school....or 'Sikh only' summer camp......

[dbaz]

Originally Posted by bballguy

It has NOTHING to do with the colour of the skin!!! I've stated this already......YES!! Having a 'white only' league would absolutely be racist!!! HOWEVER, having a 'Canadian' only league is absolutely fine and NOT racist. It's the exact same thing as having a 'Christian only' school....or 'Sikh only' summer camp......

considering the demographics in the lower mainland and canada pushing itself as one of the most multicultural places all it does is create more segregation. if that continues to happen more problems will eventually be created because people were brought up in groups of there own that didnt accept others.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I hate quoting Wikipedia, but this is pretty much my definition of ghetto:

That's also a ghetto, and my point stands. I think you're the one confusing ghettos with slums.

Nope, you're the one who is confused.

Originally Posted by merriam webster

Ghetto
a quarter of a city in which members of a minority group live especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure

Originally Posted by Dictionary.com

Ghetto
a section of a city, especially a thickly populated slum area, inhabited predominantly by members of an ethnic or other minority group, often as a result of social or economic restrictions, pressures, or hardships.

Originally Posted by Cambridge

Ghetto
an area of a city, especially a very poor area, where people of a particular race or religion live closely together and apart from other people

Originally Posted by MacMillan

Ghetto
an area in a city or town where people of a particular type live, usually in poor conditions

Even your Wikipedia quote makes essentially the same statement, albeit poorly written.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

A ghetto is a part of a city predominantly occupied by a particular ethnic group that may be looked down upon for various reasons, especially because of social or economic issues, or because they have been forced to live there (e.g. the Jewish Ghettos in Europe).

Ghettos exist, and always have existed, because the 'ruling ethnic group does not accept a different group. The 'ruling ethnic group then forces the different group into separation by legal means, a lack of social acceptance, or poverty. The etymology of the modern English word ghetto stems back to the forced separation of Jews in the seventeenth century, so I'd say, my definition is very accurate.

Originally Posted by Mr.C

So? I don't follow. It's a deep-rooted issue. Is it my issue too?

I mean, no hate on East Indians, most are really friendly, especially towards Brazilians, but come on people.

That makes no sense, why would an entire ethnic group be especially more accepting of people from a specific country?

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by bballguy

It has NOTHING to do with the colour of the skin!!! I've stated this already......YES!! Having a 'white only' league would absolutely be racist!!! HOWEVER, having a 'Canadian' only league is absolutely fine and NOT racist. It's the exact same thing as having a 'Christian only' school....or 'Sikh only' summer camp......

Yes, but to circle back to the original article in the original post; it DOES have to do with ethnicity.

Rule 32 states that a maximum of four imports - players who aren't Indo-Canadian - are allowed in all boys U13 and U14 divisions. Christiansen's team has seven imports, but they went through the registration process in April and competed in numerous games without any problems, until recently.

The USSA didn't like the colour of these children's skin, so it threatened to fine the team for playing. This is where the outrage comes from.



It bothers me when I see people find all sorts of ways to be mad at white people for speaking out against discrimination. While its true that many white people enjoyed a good run for a long time many years ago on the backs of those with a higher amount of melanin in their skin, but that era has passed. Our generation has been taught to accept others, strive for multiculturalism, and to have harmony as our goal. Now that we're in the era of equality, to stand up for ourselves and say "Hey, something isn't right" is met with cries of "Racism! Racism!"

I'm no supreme, or nationalist. I'm a first gen Canadian on one side of my family, and second gen on the other. I have no "deep roots" to this country and don't think it should be a "certain way", but I do believe that the idea of equality should apply to everyone.

Spoiler!

This has nothing to do with soccer, but it has to do with discrimination.

After years of Apartheid, South Africa has created a new set of laws which punish the new generation of European-descended South Africans, and the SA president Jacob Zuma openly racist sings songs about black on white violence.

Don't let guilt for what happened in the last generation allow people to start discriminating this generation. Its completely unacceptable, even when it happens to white people.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Yes, but to circle back to the original article in the original post; it DOES have to do with ethnicity.



The USSA didn't like the colour of these children's skin, so it threatened to fine the team for playing. This is where the outrage comes from.



It bothers me when I see people find all sorts of ways to be mad at white people for speaking out against discrimination. While its true that many white people enjoyed a good run for a long time many years ago on the backs of those with a higher amount of melanin in their skin, but that era has passed. Our generation has been taught to accept others, strive for multiculturalism, and to have harmony as our goal. Now that we're in the era of equality, to stand up for ourselves and say "Hey, something isn't right" is met with cries of "Racism! Racism!"

I'm no supreme, or nationalist. I'm a first gen Canadian on one side of my family, and second gen on the other. I have no "deep roots" to this country and don't think it should be a "certain way", but I do believe that the idea of equality should apply to everyone.

Spoiler!

This has nothing to do with soccer, but it has to do with discrimination.

After years of Apartheid, South Africa has created a new set of laws which punish the new generation of European-descended South Africans, and the SA president Jacob Zuma openly racist sings songs about black on white violence.

Don't let guilt for what happened in the last generation allow people to start discriminating this generation. Its completely unacceptable, even when it happens to white people.

lol, again - has nothing to do with colour of the skin....white people can be indo-canadian too, you know?....It's like saying Canadians are white...Just because you are Indian, does not mean you are brown....

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by bballguy

lol, again - has nothing to do with colour of the skin....white people can be indo-canadian too, you know?....It's like saying Canadians are white...Just because you are Indian, does not mean you are brown....

Not sure if trolling.....


The recognized definition of 'Indo-Canadian' is 'Person of Indian ethnic descent' instead of using the term "brown" which is a pejorative. Nobody wants to be defined by their skin colour which is why we have this type of nomenclature.

[Mr.C]

@MindBomber: Are you even reading the things you are quoting? All of them mention social OR economic factors OR both. Geez.

Edit: And, dude, whenever someone finds out I'm Brazilian, they're like "oh, Brazil, that's so awesome, I've always wanted to go there, it's so beautiful, soccer, carnaval, etc!". From my personal experiences, East Indians are very friendly towards Brazilians, and so are Filipinos. Chinese, not so much. Japanese and Koreans are also very friendly.

These are just my personal experiences.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Not sure if trolling.....


The recognized definition of 'Indo-Canadian' is 'Person of Indian ethnic descent' instead of using the term "brown" which is a pejorative. Nobody wants to be defined by their skin colour which is why we have this type of nomenclature.

I'm not trolling at all....If a 'white' or let's say Spanish lady goes to India and has a child born in India, the child then comes to Canada and gets a Canadian citizenship....TahDah!!! You now have a white person that is indo-canadian....so again, it has nothing to do with the colour of your skin....

I don't find anything wrong with these leagues so long as the parents aren't completely segregating their children from other cultures in every aspect of their lives....it also helps to keep one familiar with his or her own culture, languages, values, and beliefs...

[MarkyMark]

So what exactly is the problem then, because if somehow someone put together an all white indo Canadian team I still think shits hitting the fan. Why do they care? Are white soccer players in surrey better than brown ones?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by bballguy

I'm not trolling at all....If a 'white' or let's say Spanish lady goes to India and has a child born in India, the child then comes to Canada and gets a Canadian citizenship....TahDah!!! You now have a white person that is indo-canadian....so again, it has nothing to do with the colour of your skin....

when i was in school my roommate who is black played those same games too...i asked him "what is he" and he replies CANADIAN

i started to do that for a bit...what are you...and i say "Canadian" and then they're like where are you originally from and I say alberta and they look at me and go that usually either makes them mad and call me a smartass or they ask what part of asia my parents are from

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Nope, you're the one who is confused.









Even your Wikipedia quote makes essentially the same statement, albeit poorly written.



Ghettos exist, and always have existed, because the 'ruling ethnic group does not accept a different group. The 'ruling ethnic group then forces the different group into separation by legal means, a lack of social acceptance, or poverty. The etymology of the modern English word ghetto stems back to the forced separation of Jews in the seventeenth century, so I'd say, my definition is very accurate.



That makes no sense, why would an entire ethnic group be especially more accepting of people from a specific country?

Mr.C has it right. Look at the housing prices in Surrey, it's priced for poor people. The average income in Surrey is under 30k, below the canadian poverty line. It's filled with ethinic people to do the jobs no one else wants to do. Relative to the areas around surrey, the income earned is lower...

I've lived in Surrey for most of my life. I've had the chance to live in Victoria, New Westminster, and Fort McMurray. The difference and mindset of Victoria and Surrey are like night and day. I'm going to say Surrey, the part of Surrey where I lived, is a fucking shit hole. There is a reason why for the last 10 years I was living there it was the crime capital of the world. Poor people will do anything for money, or give up and just straight do drugs.

Truth is, if I had the means to move out of Surrey when I was growing up, I would. Since then it's come a long way from being that shithole but I would still argue that much of area is still poor.

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

@MindBomber: Are you even reading the things you are quoting? All of them mention social OR economic factors OR both. Geez.

Edit: And, dude, whenever someone finds out I'm Brazilian, they're like "oh, Brazil, that's so awesome, I've always wanted to go there, it's so beautiful, soccer, carnaval, etc!". From my personal experiences, East Indians are very friendly towards Brazilians, and so are Filipinos. Chinese, not so much. Japanese and Koreans are also very friendly.

These are just my personal experiences.

There are a lot of Chinese out there, we're not all the same. I would say that many are racist, especially the older ones. Younger one's not so much. Okay, maybe the mainlanders are all racist.... but all the CBC's I've met are pretty open to other cultures.

[doma]

In the end this dosnt even matter, name me one famous indian soccer player. White kids will have the last laugh.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

So what exactly is the problem then, because if somehow someone put together an all white indo Canadian team I still think shits hitting the fan. Why do they care? Are white soccer players in surrey better than brown ones?

Making an all-white indo-canadian team is absolutely fine....HOWEVER, stating that no brown indo-canadian individuals can play for said team IS racist....

In the same way, making an all-brown indo-canadian team is absolutely fine.....HOWEVER, stating that no white indo-canadian individuals can play for said team IS racist....

Nowhere do the rules state that white indo-canadians are not allowed to play....in fact, it never says anything about skin colour in there at all....This is simply about having an Indian background, a country that everyone can relate to, and a place where kids can stay in touch with their culture, languages, beliefs, and values....

Are there other ways to accomplish that goal? Yeah, sure, but so long as these kids aren't taught to segregate themselves from other cultures in every aspect of life, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.


BTW, I've stated like 5 times in this thread now that it has nothing to do with the colour of skin....Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around this concept?

I don't have any problem with a Spanish only league....or a Ghanaian only league....or a Philipinian only league....In fact, there are plenty of leagues that are like that....Lastly, it has nothing to do with skill level, and more to do with culture, language, beliefs, values, etc....