Ethnic rule riles Surrey soccer mom

[MarkyMark]

Yeah you've made it clear on that you believe it's not a colour issue, but the point is I'm guessing theres not one indo canadian white person in that league because really, how many white east Indians are out there? What do culture, beliefs and values have to do with playing a soccer game? I had a brown friend back in elementary school who suddenly said he couldn't hang out with us anymore because his parents wanted him to hang out with other EI kids (I'm half EI actually)...and it's shit like that which makes me think leagues like this do not help but in fact make it worse.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

@MindBomber: Are you even reading the things you are quoting? All of them mention social OR economic factors OR both. Geez.

Edit: And, dude, whenever someone finds out I'm Brazilian, they're like "oh, Brazil, that's so awesome, I've always wanted to go there, it's so beautiful, soccer, carnaval, etc!". From my personal experiences, East Indians are very friendly towards Brazilians, and so are Filipinos. Chinese, not so much. Japanese and Koreans are also very friendly.

These are just my personal experiences.

You're not grasping the nature of the social factor, it's a narrow usage. When the word is used in the definition of ghetto, it's referring to social factors such as lack of acceptance by the community (racism, anti-semitism). Look at the words etymology.

Originally Posted by DragonChi

Mr.C has it right. Look at the housing prices in Surrey, it's priced for poor people. The average income in Surrey is under 30k, below the canadian poverty line. It's filled with ethinic people to do the jobs no one else wants to do. Relative to the areas around surrey, the income earned is lower...

I've lived in Surrey for most of my life. I've had the chance to live in Victoria, New Westminster, and Fort McMurray. The difference and mindset of Victoria and Surrey are like night and day. I'm going to say Surrey, the part of Surrey where I lived, is a fucking shit hole. There is a reason why for the last 10 years I was living there it was the crime capital of the world. Poor people will do anything for money, or give up and just straight do drugs.

Truth is, if I had the means to move out of Surrey when I was growing up, I would. Since then it's come a long way from being that shithole but I would still argue that much of area is still poor.

Surrey is priced for poor people?
For the most part, Surrey housing prices are not radically lower than any other comparable area in British Columbia. Numbers don't lie, and they don't support this statement. Look up rent prices on CL, you'll find Surrey is on par with most communities.

The average income in Surrey is below the poverty line?
Nope, wrong again. The average income in Surrey is $26k for someone who did not work a full year, for someone who did it's $40k; the BC averages are $26k and $42k respectively. The poverty line for a person without kids is $20k, so the averages are well above.

Surrey is the crime capital of the world?
Obviously you're severely exaggerating.

Certain areas of Surrey are not exactly what you might describe as classy neighborhoods, but that does not make them ghettos in any sense.

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by bballguy

BTW, I've stated like 5 times in this thread now that it has nothing to do with the colour of skin....Is it really that difficult to wrap your head around this concept?

No. You have difficulties with the societal definition of "Indo Canadian". That's the problem we see.


Well, that, and the whole "no white kids" rule.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Yeah you've made it clear on that you believe it's not a colour issue, but the point is I'm guessing theres not one indo canadian white person in that league because really, how many white east Indians are out there? What do culture, beliefs and values have to do with playing a soccer game? I had a brown friend back in elementary school who suddenly said he couldn't hang out with us anymore because his parents wanted him to hang out with other EI kids (I'm half EI actually)...and it's shit like that which makes me think leagues like this do not help but in fact make it worse.

You're absolutely right in that there will always be those few stupid parents with retarded beliefs and whatnot; I personally learned a lot from playing in indo-canadian leagues about my cultures language, values, beliefs, respect, etc. I also had a few white guys on my team that were in fact indo-canadian. However, there were also other white guys in the league that weren't indo-canadian, which was allowed due to the 'import' rule....

That said, I also played for regional basketball teams which were run by Basketball BC, Surrey United Soccer, North Delta Soccer, and my parents even put me in a few "Athletes in Action" soccer/basketball camps when I was younger...Athletes in Action is a Christian organization.

So clearly, growing up in a Sikh family, my parents put me into indo-canadian leagues to help me stay in touch with roots, but also taught me the importance of integrating with individuals from other cultures and backgrounds and being accepting of all.

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

No. You have difficulties with the societal definition of "Indo Canadian". That's the problem we see.


Well, that, and the whole "no white kids" rule.

......

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

You're not grasping the nature of the social factor, it's a narrow usage. When the word is used in the definition of ghetto, it's referring to social factors such as lack of acceptance by the community (racism, anti-semitism). Look at the words etymology.




Surrey is priced for poor people?
For the most part, Surrey housing prices are not radically lower than any other comparable area in British Columbia. Numbers don't lie, and they don't support this statement. Look up rent prices on CL, you'll find Surrey is on par with most communities.

The average income in Surrey is below the poverty line?
Nope, wrong again. The average income in Surrey is $26k for someone who did not work a full year, for someone who did it's $40k; the BC averages are $26k and $42k respectively. The poverty line for a person without kids is $20k, so the averages are well above.

Surrey is the crime capital of the world?
Obviously you're severely exaggerating.

Certain areas of Surrey are not exactly what you might describe as classy neighborhoods, but that does not make them ghettos in any sense.

I suppose when you look at it by confining a particular ethnic group in an area sure. this economic stuff doesn't matter. But when I use it, it usually means a place of poverty and crime.

Rent may be the same, what about buying a house?
I don't have facts to support this, so I guess it's my opinion. Compare these prices to GVRD, not the boonies. It's not that high out there because there's no demand.

26k is just above the poverty line. Where are you getting your numbers? I'll admit, that 40k is well above that 20k. Don't you think if the people that could have worked a full year would have?
OK, I was wrong about this one. it seems that income in surrey is on par with the rest of the province.
Surrey, British Columbia - Earnings and income

I meant to say crime capital of Canada, at least it was #1 for stolen vehicle.
Surrey crime rate drops - News Hour - Videos | Global BC

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by DragonChi

Rent may be the same, what about buying a house?
I don't have facts to support this, so I guess it's my opinion. Compare these prices to GVRD, not the boonies. It's not that high out there because there's no demand.

26k is just above the poverty line. Where are you getting your numbers?
Surrey, British Columbia - Earnings and income

I meant to say crime capital of Canada, at least it was #1 for stolen vehicle.
Surrey crime rate drops - News Hour - Videos | Global BC

I got my numbers from the exact same source as you, which show the median income of Surrey residents to be very on par with the stats for all of British Columbia. I wasn't able to find a great source listing poverty line by income, but everything I found set it at $20-21k.

The GVRD is just a regional district, geographically the Lower Mainland is more accurate way to compare IMO.

To buy an average new 1 bedroom condo these are the prices I get..
Surrey - $169,900 (In one of the worse areas, other areas hit $224,900).
Langley - $178,900
Abbotsford - $169,900
Maple Ridge - $225,000 (2 bedroom, couldn't find 1 bedroom pricing)

I consider these cities all very comparable overall, so I wouldn't consider Surrey to have especially low prices. If you compare Surrey to Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, the prices are lower, but prices in every area are exponentially higher as you get closer to the downtown core.

Oh, and you are right, Surrey was at one point #2 in North America for auto theft specifically. The crime rate overall isn't that high, and it's improved dramatically over recent years.

I'm not a big Surrey fan, it's where I grew up, but it would not be my city of choice to live in again. I just don't think it fits into the category of a ghetto, which is typically a very poor area with very high crime rates, like the DTES or bad areas in America.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

I got my numbers from the exact same source as you, which show the median income of Surrey residents to be very on par with the stats for all of British Columbia. I wasn't able to find a great source listing poverty line by income, but everything I found set it at $20-21k.

The GVRD is just a regional district, geographically the Lower Mainland is more accurate way to compare IMO.

To buy an average new 1 bedroom condo these are the prices I get..
Surrey - $169,900 (In one of the worse areas, other areas hit $224,900).
Langley - $178,900
Abbotsford - $169,900
Maple Ridge - $225,000 (2 bedroom, couldn't find 1 bedroom pricing)

I consider these cities all very comparable overall, so I wouldn't consider Surrey to have especially low prices. If you compare Surrey to Vancouver, Burnaby, Richmond, the prices are lower, but prices in every area are exponentially higher as you get closer to the downtown core.

Oh, and you are right, Surrey was at one point #2 in North America for auto theft specifically. The crime rate overall isn't that high, and it's improved dramatically over recent years.

I'm not a big Surrey fan, it's where I grew up, but it would not be my city of choice to live in again. I just don't think it fits into the category of a ghetto, which is typically a very poor area with very high crime rates, like the DTES or bad areas in America.

Would it make you happy if I substituted "Ghetto" with "Enclave"?

[Ronin]

No clue why *I* received this press release...I don't live in Surrey, no one I know plays in this soccer league and...well, I don't really care one way or another but I got it in my inbox earlier and I remembered this thread.

Media Advisory
Indo-Canadian Summer Soccer Association

August 13, 2012
For Immediate Release - Over the past few days there has been a tremendous amount of discussion in the local media about the current rules and regulations of the Indo-Canadian Summer Soccer Association (ISSA). The volunteer run Association, based in Surrey but drawing participation from across the metro Vancouver region, has been hosting a number of youth soccer tournaments each summer for the past thirty years.

Historically, these tournaments have been sponsored by Sikh Gurdwara’s and, at their heart, are about bringing Indo-Canadian youth together to promote sport, participation and culture within our community. The popularity of the League has grown in relation to the growth of the Indo-Canadian community in the lower mainland, growing from two teams in 1982 to over 400 teams in the recently concluded 2012 ISSA and United Summer Soccer League (USSL) seasons. Currently, the rules of the League state that up to four non South Asian players may play for a single team. As with all of the Association rules, the volunteer board of directors meets each winter to discuss any and all potential rule changes for the upcoming season. The rule in question will also be assessed, but we as a board remain committed to the spirit of the intent of the league.

Like many other cultures and ethnic groups who have similar programs in place for local ethnic leagues in soccer, as well as other sports, we believe that having a privately funded Indo Canadian soccer association is important for bringing our young people together in a celebration of both sport and their culture. We respect the rights of all other ethnic community based soccer leagues in BC, as well as dozens of others across the country in many different sports, to have their leagues run as they choose. Further, in the spirit of inclusiveness, our community volunteers also govern and run an organization also hosts a United Summer Soccer League (USSL) for players aged five to eleven years, which is open to players of all ethnic backgrounds.

-30-

Reference:

Sim Sumra
President
Indo-Canadian Summer Soccer Association (ISSA)
604-309-6960

[MR_BIGGS]

Comment from a member of the public. This person gets it:

I was also of the opinion this was unacceptable until I listened to Bill Good yesterday morning and various reps from different leagues phoned in.

The bottom-line is these are PRIVATE leagues centered around an organization (church, community group, temple, whatever) who exist to encourage their group (Greek, Indo, Italian, whatever) to participate in a league of peers.

There is nothing racist about this and, having participated in similar types of leagues in the past, they all PAY for the privilege of playing on a public field (you really think Vancouver lets leagues play on their fields for free??).

If you don't have "restrictions" of some sort that maintain the focus of the purpose of the league, you wind up with teams bringing in ringers, which ruins the central purpose of the league in the first place.
So like I originally posted.... find the right league. If you want a multi-ethnic one, either organize it or pressure your municipality to form it.

And then there are people who don't:

This is racism from Indo Canadians to Caucasians. This is wrong, they whine and complain if racism is used against them, but clearly they do it to others.

It is they who are getting the Canadians a bad name in Bellingham Costco

Just to add in a point. My friends and I have entered tournaments where we were the imports and also visable minorities. We were brought in because we were considered ringers. On the flip side, I've invited caucasian friends to tournaments and they were considered imports. Brought them in for the same reason; ringers. Increased our chance to win the tourny.

[604STIG]

Originally Posted by dbaz

i really dont like the "indo" or "chinese" only leagues. the fact they allow leagues for certain people only is bullshit. canada is supposed to be multicultural. people would complain about racism and shit if caucasians would form a "white" only league. but they seems to be fine when they do it. should just eliminate these leagues and mix it up with everyone.

Christian Leagues my friend, "white" only leagues do exist.

[Phil@rise]

None of the kids care who they play with. They just wanna play. The damn parents foster this kind of segregation and in the end racism within thier children and all it does is hold back their children from being able to take full advantage of a society and its benefits.
As sad as it is multiculturalism has yet to fully develop in our country and anyone who believes it does is blind. This case is just another prime example of that.

[dbaz]

Originally Posted by 604STIG

Christian Leagues my friend, "white" only leagues do exist.

umm as far as i know 2nd and 3rd biggest countries with christian ties are mexico and brazil... thats after the united states not canada. also groups from asia are christian. but if the christian leagues are only allowing "white" christians to play well thats obviously fucking retarded. that being said for a sport league with children not having an extremely legit excuse to limit who plays is pretty stupid

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by 604STIG

Christian Leagues my friend, "white" only leagues do exist.

I failed you, but in all reality, what you is saying is no different than El Bastardo saying that all Indo-Canadians are brown...........which is ironic, because El Bastardo failed you too lol...

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by bballguy

I failed you, but in all reality, what you is saying is no different than El Bastardo saying that all Indo-Canadians are brown...........which is ironic, because El Bastardo failed you too lol...

Yeah, but in that statement that Ronin posted Sim Sutra uses language specifically references ethnicity, and clarifies that the rule applies to non-South Asian players.

And I said that in this, and the popular context, Indo-Canadians referred to brown folks. While it -is- possible to be Indo-Canadian and not have an ethnic background tying you to the region, the language used relies on you understanding that this is the terminology we use.


Honestly, how would YOU identify an ethnically "brown" person? By saying "brown"?

"Sir? What is your ethnic background?"
"Brown. I'm from Brownland"
"Ahh, okay. Is that the eastern section of Brownland or the western section?"
"Are you saying that all of us brown people look the same? How dare you"

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Honestly, how would YOU identify an ethnically "brown" person? By saying "brown"?

lol why would I need to identify an ethnically "brown" person? I don't look or identify people as "brown", "white", "black", "yellow", "green", "red", etc....That's all the same to me. Seeing how "brown" people come from many different backgrounds, I wouldn't simply package them all into the "Indo-Canadian" category...Some have a background from India, while others could have a background from Pakistan, Kashmir, Nepal, Bangladesh, Indonesia, etc....

[parm104]

You guys do realize that these Indo-Canadian leagues are simply SUMMER leagues right? They play only tournaments against other Indo-Canadian leagues sponsored by Indo-Canadian businesses and families. It's strictly a summer league that provides an opportunity for Indo-Canadian kids to play with each other in a different environment than their normal leagues. As mentioned, a lot parents place their kids in these leagues during the summer because it allows them to remain rooted with their culture while playing a sport they love.

The rest of these arguments are really stupid and off-topic. Everything is irrelevant and simply put, kind of petty for people to be arguing about. Who cares if Indo-Canadians or any other culture wants to have a setup where they delegate who gets to play in their league....It's THEIR league and it's an optional membership and there are MANY other options out there. Obviously, the Indo-Canadian league has no shortage of players and honestly, there are MANY other leagues that kids can play for in the summer.

Ignorance is a bliss and I can tell from the way many people are talking here, they haven't played organized sports in a long time and certainly haven't seen their private, summer leagues and experienced the way they work. It's like a private school education, some get it, some don't...simple...But there are many other options for those who don't get it that are equally effective and fun; just unique in their environment and experiences.