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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Would you eat meat that is sustainably and ethically slaughtered?
Does this also mean you don't eat the Orange/White Atlantic farmed salmon in our local sushi joints?
I wouldn't take any issue with meat that is sustainably and ethically slaughtered, but I still would not choose to eat it because I have an objection to killing on a personal level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit
shouldnt this make you a vegan? so you eat some animal products?
I still eat eggs and drink milk, but it's produced by people I know, not at factory farms. I don't have any personal objection to consuming ethically harvested animal products.
There's a fairly recent push to ban shark fin in Vancouver, Burnaby and Richmond simultaneously; the three city councils are working together to implement an effective ban that would prevent people from simply going to a restaurant one city over for the dish. Developments are expected mid-September.
Its damn tasty and I see nothing wrong with it. Animals are meant to be eaten.
That's the thing, it's not even tasty. The taste is from the broth and MSG that the sharks fin is served with.
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Does anyone have links to sources that talk about the impending extinction of sharks, or about the effect that finning has on their populations leading them to extinction?
IMO, extinction is the ONLY reason to fight finning.
Being wasteful is an argument, but not a strong one.. We waste MANY things in North America, why pick on sharks?
Ethical treatment can be argued, but unless you're a vegetarian, it comes off as naive, given the rest of the food industry.
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There are lots of articles and studies which discuss the impending extinction of sharks, here's one.
Spoiler!
Nine more species of shark are to be added to the endangered list as scientists warn that oceans are being emptied of the fish by overfishing and finning.
The scalloped hammerhead shark, which has declined by 99% over the past 30 years in some parts of the world, is particularly vulnerable and will be declared globally endangered on the World Conservation Union (IUCN) list.
"Sharks are definitely at the top of the list for marine fishes that could go extinct in our lifetimes," said Julia Baum of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in California and a member of IUCN shark specialist group. "If we carry on the way that we are, we're looking at a really high risk of extinction for some of these shark species within the next few decades."
At the American Association for the Advancement of Science annual meeting in Boston yesterday, Baum said that in addition to the scalloped hammerhead, other shark species that will be added to the revised IUCN endangered list later this year are the smooth hammerhead, shortfin mako, common thresher, big-eye thresher, silky, tiger, bull and dusky. There are already 126 species of shark on the IUCN's list.
"The perception has been that really wide-ranging species can't become endangered because if they are threatened in one area, surely they'll be fine in another area," said Baum. "But fisheries now cover all corners of the earth and they're intense enough that these species are being threatened everywhere."
Recent studies have shown that all shark populations in the north-west Atlantic Ocean have declined by an average of 50% since the early 1970s.
Shark numbers can become depleted very quickly because they take a long time to mature - 16 years in the case of a scalloped hammerhead. Their fins are highly prized in China and can fetch up to £140 a kilogram. Until recently the eating of shark fin was a delicacy restricted to the rich in China, said Baum, but as the country's middle class has grown in the past 25 years, so has the market for shark fins.
Excessive fishing has caused a 90% decline in shark populations across the world's oceans and up to 99% along the US east coast, which are some of the best-managed waters in the world, according to Baum.
The decline in predators such as sharks can have devastating consequences for the local marine ecology.
In a case study published last year, Baum found that a major decline in the numbers of predatory sharks in the north Atlantic after 2000 had allowed populations of the sharks' prey, cownose rays, to explode. The rays in turn decimated the bay scallop populations around North Carolina. "There was a fishery for bay scallops in North Carolina that lasted over a century uninterrupted and it was closed down in 2004 because of cownose rays."
Fishing for sharks in international waters is unrestricted, but Baum supports a recent UN resolution calling for immediate limits on catching sharks and a ban on shark finning.
Sonja Fordham, of the Shark Alliance, a coalition of 50 scientific and conservation groups, said: "People think these wide-ranging, fast sharks are resilient to fishing; however, this shows this is not the case. Concerned citizens can really help by making their fisheries ministers aware that they support conservation measures such as catch limits."
Some conservation efforts for sharks will focus on newly identified hotspots where sharks congregate during migrations. Peter Klimley of the University of California, Davis, found that scalloped hammerhead sharks migrate along fixed "superhighways" in the oceans, speeding between a series of "stepping stone" sites near coastal islands ranging from Mexico to Ecuador.
"Hammerhead sharks are not evenly dispersed throughout the seas, but concentrated at seamounts and offshore islands," he said. "Hence, enforcing reserves around these areas will go far in protecting these species and will provide the public with places for viewing sharks in their habitat."
One site between Hawaii and Mexico attracts so many sharks it has become known among scientists as "the white shark cafe", Klimley says.
"We started calling it the cafe because that is where you might go to have a snack or maybe just to 'see and be seen'. We are not sure which," said Salvador Jorgensen, a researcher at Stanford University's Hopkins Marine Station.
"Once they leave the cafe they return year after year to the same exact spot along the coast, just as you might return to a favourite fishing hole."
Also, here's a Shark Week clip on the effect the extinction/decline of sharks will have.
I think the extinction is a serious issue, and I feel like when we relate it to 'shark fin soup', it just clouds the issue. The focus should be on the prohibition of hunting sharks due to possible extinction.
How is this handled with other species? International bodies/standards?
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It's hard not to relate the crisis to 'shark fin soup' because that's the driving force behind over-fishing of sharks, but I understand and completely agree with your point.
CITES is among the largest and most powerful of the regulatory bodies managing the trade of endangered species, but they haven't done much to stop the trade of sharks. The problem with CITES having 175 member nations is that it's hard to come to agreements before it's too late to save a species, or it's nothing but a crap shot on whether conservation efforts will be successful. There have been discussions on placing restrictions on trade of multiple shark species and blue fin tuna (which deserves a thread all it's own), but the discussions end without agreements. To add to that, CITES regulates about 350 million dollars worth of trade in endanger species annually, but the annual total in illegal trade is estimated at as high as 27 billion dollars. Treaties are relatively ineffective without cultural shifts, because poachers will find a way where there is a demand, especially if that demand is in Asia.
Last edited by MindBomber; 08-16-2012 at 11:54 AM.
they can grow a human ear on a mouse when the chinese scientist gonna one up it and grow a..............shark fin!! it'll look like a killer mouse. Then let it swim in the pool and scare everybody.
stupid eh like this thread why do we need so many on one topic?
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I'd like to see you out in the wild eat a fucking shark in nature.
I've been shark fishing on the north coast of bc. And those sharks tasted damn good. Made some fin soup as well. Granted they were not too big, but sharks none the less.
I wouldn't take any issue with meat that is sustainably and ethically slaughtered, but I still would not choose to eat it because I have an objection to killing on a personal level.
I still eat eggs and drink milk, but it's produced by people I know, not at factory farms. I don't have any personal objection to consuming ethically harvested animal products.
isn't eating eggs the worst thing a vegetarian can do if they're against slaughter of animals?
i thought eggs were the first thing you're supposed to give up.
you know how many male chicks get slaughtered at an egg farm? lol
each "factory" produces like hundreds of thousands of chicks per day.
50% of them are male... they're sorted out... the females get shipped off so they can grow up and lay eggs.
the males are thrown in a grinder immediately (immediately after birth). lol.
therefore eating eggs is contributing to the immediate after birth culling of millions of chickens per day.
i don't know about you guys but going vegetarian/vegan because of ethical reasons (mainly killing of a conscious animal)....
you either have to go all the way... 100% vegan... or you kinda seem like a hypocrite. lol.
you can't weigh the conscious awareness of one animal to another.
there's different levels. obviously a cow is more conscious than a fish.
so if you were to list every animal in terms of level of "awareness", where would u draw the line as a vegetarian? where does it become a level that it's unacceptable or acceptable to kill?
its okay to kill say a chicken? but its not okay to kill a cow? how does that work?
i'm sure cows are a lot more consciously aware of their surroundings than sharks.
dolphins are so consciously aware, they're considered by scientists to be non-human persons.
using ability to feel pain, or fear, is not justified.
if there was an animal (or person), that felt no remorse, or fear for anything, and couldn't feel extreme pain... does that make it okay to kill it?
it's all or nothing.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 08-17-2012 at 11:22 PM.
Anyways ... so on Shark Week, does anyone know which show is the one with the shark taking a bite out of this girl? I missed the show and I want to PVR it.
isn't eating eggs the worst thing a vegetarian can do if they're against slaughter of animals?
i thought eggs were the first thing you're supposed to give up.
you know how many male chicks get slaughtered at an egg farm? lol
each "factory" produces like hundreds of thousands of chicks per day.
50% of them are male... they're sorted out... the females get shipped off so they can grow up and lay eggs.
the males are thrown in a grinder immediately (immediately after birth). lol.
therefore eating eggs is contributing to the immediate after birth culling of millions of chickens per day.
i don't know about you guys but going vegetarian/vegan because of ethical reasons (mainly killing of a conscious animal)....
you either have to go all the way... 100% vegan... or you kinda seem like a hypocrite. lol.
you can't weigh the conscious awareness of one animal to another.
there's different levels. obviously a cow is more conscious than a fish.
so if you were to list even animal in terms of level of "awareness", where would u draw the line as a vegetarian? where does it become a level that it's unacceptable or acceptable to kill?
its okay to kill say a chicken? but its not okay to kill a cow? how does that work?
i'm sure cows are a lot more consciously aware of their surroundings than sharks.
dolphins are so consciously aware, they're considered by scientists to be non-human persons.
using ability to feel pain, or fear, is not justified.
if there was an animal (or person), that felt no remorse, or fear for anything, and couldn't feel extreme pain... does that make it okay to kill it?
it's all or nothing.
Where's all this interest in my diet coming from?
I eat eggs from a farm that raises it's own chicks. The males are ethically raised and humanely slaughtered at maturity, which I do not object too. The cockerels live a very natural life, with the comfy addition of a bit of feed during winter. Death is a part of natural life, as is being eaten by another animal. I respect my friends wishes to continue consuming meat, as they respect my wishes to abstain from consuming it. The choice to refrain from directly contributing to the death of any animal is a choice I made for myself, I do not expect others to share the same views, and will not criticize those who do not.
The majority of vegetarians will not eat anything defined as an animal. There are discussions on where exactly a line should be drawn and the general consensus is somewhere between oysters, clams, muscles, and such being okay to eat, but shrimp, lobster, crawfish not being okay. That said, the vast majority of vegetarians do abstain from those more simple shellfish as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HachiSix
Shark Week should be about this:
Not about soup:
Shark welfare has always been a part of Shark Week, in addition to cool 'air jaws' style shots and documentaries. The current week of specials has been no different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsideon
Anyways ... so on Shark Week, does anyone know which show is the one with the shark taking a bite out of this girl? I missed the show and I want to PVR it.
I'm not sure what the exact name of the show which you mentioned is...
you might be able to find it on Discovery's website though?
I'd support a shark fin ban. Like everyone else with taste buds, you realize it's only silly Asians concerned about status that order shark fin anyways. Everyone else realizes it tastes like nothing and a huge rip-off. I'd support it for those reasons...that the process, price and cost in terms of endangered species don't justify the dish.
But if they were to try to ban something delicious like fois gras, I'd oppose that like there was no tomorrow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber
I wouldn't take any issue with meat that is sustainably and ethically slaughtered, but I still would not choose to eat it because I have an objection to killing on a personal level.
I still eat eggs and drink milk, but it's produced by people I know, not at factory farms. I don't have any personal objection to consuming ethically harvested animal products.
Cool, I respect your opinion and greatly admire the resolve out took to get there.
I would like to eventually lessen my meat consumption and make my happiness/diet less dependent on far raised animals. As a foodie, i have an interest not just what is on the plate, but how it got there as well. Our North American diet is totally not sustainable, i would like to do my part as the "chef" and "food guru" of my friends to explore sustainable, healthy choices.
Perhaps you would be willing to share done of what you eat in the Food/Dining section? I think we can branch off done of this discussion there.
No it isn't. People can eat whatever they want, for whatever reasons they want. I don't see mindbomber going around telling people that they need to eat like he does. He has his own reasons, whether you agree with them or not. If he wants to eat eggs and fish but not fluffy animals, that's his own thing.
If he was going around, like most vegans, saying that this is how humans are 'supposed' to eat, then I would have an issue. But if he feels better about not eating certain things, who cares?
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