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Old 08-29-2012, 02:40 AM   #176
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:46 AM   #177
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:22 AM   #178
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Dude, Samsung is appealing. Why would they pay?
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:26 AM   #179
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Dude, Samsung is appealing. Why would they pay?
its a joke
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:37 AM   #180
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i want to point out that yes, i think it "should be" but reality is that, it isnt.

but reality is that, anyone can take it ANYWAY. regardless of should be or laws or whatever. someone that wants it, will just take it, and copy it. and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
that's what im ultimately getting at, the laws, patent laws, suing, wont slow or stop any copying. the law is broken.
If you're some anonymous guy, the law's not coming after you. But if you're a company with something to lose, the law has teeth. That's why IT depts license software legit. It's not worth stealing to save a few bucks. Of course, in China, no one gives a shit, but not having IP protection at all has other consequences.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:51 AM   #181
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I know that, but they innovate the way things pop up in searches and shit. you cannot deny the importance of this.

regardless, why do you have such a hardon with this case.
Search is the one area where Google has superior technology in the PageRank patent. Pretty much everything else was someone else's product that they bought, re-branded or modified and called it their own.

Speaking of search, do people realize all the concepts they're so against (because Apple won) would also affect Google? Abolishing software patents (or putting 5 year expiry dates on them) would mean Microsoft, Yahoo or even Apple could start their own search engine using Google's algorithms (which according to Ulic are nothing more than math anyway and should never be patented) and suddenly make Google irrelevant. The reason Google took off in the first place and made sites like Altavista irrelevant is because Google searches were uncanny in finding information people actually wanted.

Take away that advantage and there's no reason to use Google over Bing or other search engines. And with the deep pockets of MS and Apple, they could seriously impact Google's monopoly on search.


Why do I have a hardon with this case? As a software developer I'm pro IP. This case stands up for the rights of IP and comes down hard on the copiers. The bigger question is why are so many people with no clue about IP getting so pissed off about a case that doesn't affect them? Why is it when you go to CNN or other non-tech site and click on an Apple/Samsung article you get pages and pages of anti-Apple comments? And why are all the comments nothing more than "fuck Apple" or "boycott Apple" instead of someone actually trying to discuss an opposing view?


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you didn't answer my two questions though.

the answers to those questions are far heavier in importance than the statement "stealing is wrong"

i have another question.

define stealing.

then define how you would identify a piece of "property" as belonging to someone.
I thought I already did. If you take someone's property it's stealing. If you have something that you didn't pay for (and wasn't a gift) then you are in possession of stolen property. If you download something for free that originally had a price tag attached to it you're stealing. If someone has a patent and you use it in your products you are stealing. You know, common sense stuff that every single court in the world agrees on.

As to the Indian who developed a touchscreen, he'd have trouble going after Apple in the US. But he would find it easy to go after Apple in India. There's no WWPTO (World Wide Patent trademark Office). When you file a patent in the US you're not obligated to search the entire world for something similar (though it would be wise to search places like Germany, Japan the UK or Canada). One individual can own a patent in one country and another in a different country. They only trouble arises when they want to do business in each other's country.


I already addressed this a few pages back. Taking Groklaw's article and putting some additional spin on it doesn't change things one bit.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #182
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As to the Indian who developed a touchscreen, he'd have trouble going after Apple in the US. But he would find it easy to go after Apple in India. There's no WWPTO (World Wide Patent trademark Office). When you file a patent in the US you're not obligated to search the entire world for something similar (though it would be wise to search places like Germany, Japan the UK or Canada). One individual can own a patent in one country and another in a different country. They only trouble arises when they want to do business in each other's country.
In other words, the entire patent system can be gamed to your own advantage and is a f*cking joke. There is literally zero language in the law that pertains to technological advances, let alone individual programming codes. Lets face it, the laws are a joke and needed to be overhauled 20 years ago. They should have an international standard for patents similar to IFRS (financial reporting). Then again, only the great US of A is refuses to adapt the international standard.

*correction* It 'may' be adapted in 2014. About fricking time
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:35 AM   #183
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Samsung Smartphone sales Jump following verdict:

A shift in Samsung smartphone sales after Apple patent verdict - Apple 2.0 - Fortune Tech

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FORTUNE -- Two reports this week suggest that Apple's (AAPL) Aug. 24 patent suit victory is already being felt in the market.
•From MarketWatch's Quentin Fottrell: "[Reseller] Gazelle.com reports a 50% increase in Samsung smartphones over the past three days, which has led to a 10% drop in prices for those devices. 'Consumers seem to be jumping ship,' says Anthony Scarsella, chief gadget officer at Gazelle.com. 'We expect this trend to continue, especially with this latest verdict.'"
•From Global Equities' Trip Chowdhry, who surveyed 3 Costco Stores, 5 AT&T Stores, 5 Sprint Stores and 3 Verizon Stores: "Following Apple and Samsung August 24th verdict, customers rushed to buy Samsung Galaxy S III this weekend, with some stores reporting stock outs."

The jury, you may recall, found the Galaxy S II had infringed several Apple patents. The Galaxy S III, which was released after Apple had already filed its suit, was not covered by the verdict.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:32 AM   #184
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apple wins lawsuit - increase in samsung phone sales
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:44 PM   #185
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:34 PM   #186
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The fact of the matter is, someone will find a way to copy or take something if they want to. If there is demand for something, somebody will supply it. It doesn't matter whether it is right or wrong to copy or steal, it will happen anyway.

I'm sure Apple was not the first to think of the pinch and zoom. They're just the first ones to utilize it, and then decide it was "their idea", and it should be exclusive to apple only.

All their doing is fucking up the natural order in the world.

If i see something that someone else made, and i feel i can make it better, why the fuck cant it? Why can't i take someone else's object, make it better, and put it out there?

We contribute to humanity as a whole. Yes, in a "utopian paradise" its not called stealing, but if someone took your invention and made it even better, at the end of the day, would you not be happy you inspired something?

Would you, as a software developer, not be happy?

...Or must you be paid a sum of $xxxxxx per use of your so called "idea"

Motorola invented the first flip phone ,i didnt see them sueing everyone else for following.

Microsoft invented the touch pad, nor did they.

And their not the only ones to have the idea either, but the first to put it in motion.
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Old 08-29-2012, 05:55 PM   #187
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Apple sure invents stuff...

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Old 08-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #188
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^^^ same as slide to unlock etc; nokia showcased it for "future devices" at one of their Nokia Worlds in early 2000s long before the iphone was even announced and yet Americans are like its all Apple -_-
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:34 PM   #189
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:31 PM   #190
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The fact of the matter is, someone will find a way to copy or take something if they want to. If there is demand for something, somebody will supply it. It doesn't matter whether it is right or wrong to copy or steal, it will happen anyway.

I'm sure Apple was not the first to think of the pinch and zoom. They're just the first ones to utilize it, and then decide it was "their idea", and it should be exclusive to apple only.

All their doing is fucking up the natural order in the world.

If i see something that someone else made, and i feel i can make it better, why the fuck cant it? Why can't i take someone else's object, make it better, and put it out there?

We contribute to humanity as a whole. Yes, in a "utopian paradise" its not called stealing, but if someone took your invention and made it even better, at the end of the day, would you not be happy you inspired something?

Would you, as a software developer, not be happy?

...Or must you be paid a sum of $xxxxxx per use of your so called "idea"

Motorola invented the first flip phone ,i didnt see them sueing everyone else for following.

Microsoft invented the touch pad, nor did they.

And their not the only ones to have the idea either, but the first to put it in motion.
To put it in motion requires lots and lots of money. So if Apply invest millions into the pinch and zoom and made it work and all other cell phones copy just copied it and they don't have to pay a penny to develop it, code it, take the risk that the market might not like it and you think is 100% fair for Apple then? Apple spend the money to develop it, put it on their phones, take a risk and paid off so now it is fair for every cell phone company just to copy and not pay apple a penny.

Good lord with that thinking no company will ever develop anything new coz why put millions and millions and take a risk? Why not just said for other company to do it and if it is successful just copy it.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:41 PM   #191
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:43 PM   #192
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Good lord with that thinking no company will ever develop anything new coz why put millions and millions and take a risk? Why not just said for other company to do it and if it is successful just copy it.
I've always viewed it as: you're only on top of the market for a while until the rest of the world catches up to you. And IMO that's exactly what happened to Apple.

They developed the touch screen so well that they basically obsoleted their QWERTY competitors which at the time, BlackBerry was their biggest. But they can't just sit on their asses and hope nobody does the touchscreen user-experience like they can. They've had their time at the top of the mountain, and they need to keep pushing forward to remain on top; rather than sitting back and throwing a tantrum because their shit isn't the hottest techno-gadget anymore.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:46 PM   #193
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^ Exactly. In the tech world where everything changes so fast, 20 year patents aren't relevant anymore.

I mean, just have a look at this article to contribute how broken the system is.

Some Dude Wants $60m For a Patent Protecting The Distribution of URLs via SMS

Patenting URL distribution via texting. Ridiculous. Years later we will look back at iPhone features to be patented and feel the same way.

The next iPhone looks to be pretty much the same, same bland iOS. Definitely jumping to Samsung. This lawsuit hasn't had me disgusted at Samsung, but rather, more interested in their products.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:51 PM   #194
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Google doesn't innovate. They buy other companies instead of coming up with their own ideas. Hell, even Android was bought by Google. As were many of Google's other "services". You can see the list here along with where they ended up within Google.

Can you name any Google innovations? Aside from their PageRank patent which runs their search engine.

Companies Google Has Bought
Pot meet kettle...

List of mergers and acquisitions by Apple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some key Apple products/"inventions":
February 7, 1997 NeXT Computer programming services United States US$404,000,000 [12] Mac OS X
2000 (Q4) SoundJam MP[note 3] Software United States — [18] iTunes
April 2005 FingerWorks Gesture recognition company United States — [29][30] iOS multitouch
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:57 PM   #195
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Pot meet kettle...

List of mergers and acquisitions by Apple - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some key Apple products/"inventions":
February 7, 1997 NeXT Computer programming services United States US$404,000,000 [12] Mac OS X
2000 (Q4) SoundJam MP[note 3] Software United States — [18] iTunes
April 2005 FingerWorks Gesture recognition company United States — [29][30] iOS multitouch
But Steve Jobs founded NeXT, therefore it's inherently Apple
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:09 PM   #196
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they also bought their maps system, siri, i was going to say at least they developed their camera on their own but it looks like they've bought that as well (hdr and image stabilization etc)
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:27 PM   #197
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Didn't they also hire the guy who made the jailbroken version of the notifications?
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #198
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Didn't they also hire the guy who made the jailbroken version of the notifications?
Yes. Jailbreaker dude.

Apple Hires iPhone Hacker Nicholas Allegra (@Comex) | TechCrunch
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:30 PM   #199
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Come to think of it, why can iOS5 swipe from top to reveal notifications panel (a feature previously Android). Did Google not patent that feature therefore Apple could use it?
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:49 PM   #200
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Nokia had it before google (well Maemo had it first a NOK linux OS) so i think it may be apart of the open source linux deal
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