Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[bcrdukes]

Paging Hehe to share his wisdom.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by rymack

So I had mentioned a while back about asking my Tennant to voluntarily increase the rent . She declined and we decided to list the place for sale. As anyone who had been following the market knows the condo market is in the tank and we have t seen much interest besides one lowball.

So fast forward to this week we have an offer but quite a bit less than we had originally listed . It’s more than assessed and probably considering the market it’s a fair price. However I’m not sure what we should be doing here. Trying to weigh the idea of keeping the condo/refinancing vs selling .

If we keep the condo we could pull the required cash out ( we have some projects etc to do in the main house) and hold the asset . This would be fairly easy as our current Tennant ( the one who was paying a low rent )has now given notice. So we should be able to carry the. Cost of the re finance etc once we get a new Tennant at market rates.

If we sell then we get less than expected/hoped when we listed the unit but have the cash in hand for the project and invest the balance of the cash in the market where we in theory grow the portfolio over time.

Couple of notes on the condo: it’s a smaller condo (sub 500sq/ft) w a little bit odd layout (bathroom accessed through the bedroom). It’s in a good area especially for rentals ( oak and broadway , 2 block from VGH). It’s about 18- 20 years old and no major assessments so always wondering when that show will drop if ever. Currently there is skytrain being built with a new station 1 block or so away when completed. The kitchen cabinets and floor are showing signs of age and will need to be addressed if we hold it for too
Much longer .No AC in building.


What would you guys be doing ? Basically we pull the cash required either way and either invest the remainder in the market/equities or hold the property for long term.

Anything I’m not considering here ?

Not an investment advise, just my $0.02.

First thing to consider, you can't kick out tenants just so that you can increase rent. If you do that, you either have to keep the unit empty for a year before listing it again or you need to work out a compensation with your tenants.

Now regarding what I'd do, I always ask myself about what kind of cashflow or ROI can I get investing in anything. Thus, what kind of cashflow is your condo generating? If it's closed to 0 or even negative, then, sell it and move your money elsewhere.

Canadian bond yields a tad over 3% as of today. That should serve as a guideline. If you can't generate at least 3%, look somewhere else. Because Canadian bond is pretty much the lowest risk product on the market. And if you have to take any risk and do < or = to bond, it makes no sense.

Canadian RE is in its relative peak. Everything else staying equal, there isn't much room to move up. The forecast I am getting from most market observers are predicting a 15-20% correction before whatever policy Carney cooks up would come into effect.

Some have mentioned that the problem is the price, I don't personally agree to that. I still believe it's a question of supply rather than anything else. Remember, real price of anything is usually dictated by supply/demand. Now we have more supply but demand is relatively flat, and therefore price is going to drop.

Stock market, I think we are on the verge of another huge industrial revolution. This time is all about AI and robotics. It's going to propel our economy in scales that even the invention of steam engine and internet pales to come even close. And yes, I do believe it's within the next 2-5yrs time. The question becomes, do you have time to kinda park that money in the stock market and forget about it?

Investment is about giving resources and TIME to allow opportunity to pan out. Conventional metrics such as PE or whatever is really only a good indicator for companies that are in a stable market without much ability to break out of its current form.

With that explained, now I'd suggest 2 things:

1. RE - If you believe in it and makes you sleep better, check your cashflow. If condo is no good, take it out and look for opportunities. During the 2008 RE crash, my family basically went on a shopping spree. We offered 30-50% of asking price (I shit you not) and cash deal. Ended up picking up a few properties at ~40% of market value (in our own estimate). Now, I don't think our RE market is this desperate right now. Thus, just research inside out of any particular area you like. So much so that if I ask you what rent can be had or what's the average price psqf, you can give me the answer without thinking. Then if a good deal comes along, you can grab it before anyone else.

2. Stock - If you like this better and want the inherited benefit of it (it's highly liquid and the sky is the limit), find companies that suit you... I like companies like TSLA, MSFT, NVDA and TSMC. I might be biased as I have position in all of them, but they are companies that I can sleep on without ever checking their stock price. If it's a company that you need to constantly look at, don't do it. It's not good for your brain. And even though many of these don't really pay any significant dividend, you can use things like the wheel strategy to kind squeeze money out of it. I employ them at a very low risk level and only sell options and never buy. I average about 8% yield and that pays for the food to our table and my mortgage.

Again, not an investment advise, but I alway focus on cashflow on whatever opportunity when it comes to money. It makes no sense to hold on to something and wish that it goes up or down. That's speculating, not investing.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

right, and WHAT are the exact perks here that justify this?

I don't want to ever have to walk into the branch again!!

Life goal: make enough money so I can have this privilege for free.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

I don't want to ever have to walk into the branch again!!

Life goal: make enough money so I can have this privilege for free.

I see PB as an investment to save time. Which is the only resource that matters.

When anything banking related can be done with a phone call or an email, why go to bank at all?

I don’t even need to shop around for rate, I just call and see what’s the best rate on anything whether it’s to park money or borrow money. Not to mention when I want to get creative on things, they can figure it out for me. That’s banking on steroid. Retail banking on the other side needs you to do homework yourself whereas PB just have people to do that for you.

[JDMDreams]

^^ it's honestly not hard to household. Your parents + your money, maybe siblings, partner. Not hard to come up with a million.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

I don't want to ever have to walk into the branch again!!

Life goal: make enough money so I can have this privilege for free.

I never go to the branch. I’m sure most people here don’t go in either.

I still haven’t seen a single compelling argument on for PB.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I see PB as an investment to save time. Which is the only resource that matters.

When anything banking related can be done with a phone call or an email, why go to bank at all?

I don’t even need to shop around for rate, I just call and see what’s the best rate on anything whether it’s to park money or borrow money. Not to mention when I want to get creative on things, they can figure it out for me. That’s banking on steroid. Retail banking on the other side needs you to do homework yourself whereas PB just have people to do that for you.

Anyone with this sort of wealth.. why are YOU doing anything? lol

Honestly like the people I know who would use this type of service, they will call people while on the golf course and have this all sorted out for them, their accountants, their assistants, etc. Why would someone worth all this money be calling a banker? If time is money people should be doing this stuff for you?

Maybe you specifically have a need for it, but kind of like Hobz is saying, the only people I’ve ever heard talk about private banking are people who by no means need it, they just use it as some dick wagging talking point

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

Following up on the private banking thing - from an RBC rep on fees:

1) There's a monthly fee of $125/mo.
2) That's rebated by $75/mo if you have $1M in assets with them.
3) It's rebated the full amount, if you have $1M in assets, plus $2M in approved credit facilities with them.

So I guess to unlock free perks, you could do a HELOC, and just take a million dollars out!

I pay $4 per month in fees that's rebated $4 per month

[RabidRat]

^ what are you getting for $4 a month?

The one recurring thing I'm typically annoyed by, is having to be at a branch to initiate wire transfers. And neither Tangerine nor WealthSimple seem to support doing this at all.

[Hehe]

^

I'm too poor to have my own assistant.

Already said it before. It might not be for everyone. But the original idea of suggesting PB was to shop for the lowest rate. I have yet to find a broker to find me better rate or find a rate that my PB can't match/beat it for me.

And its value really derives from the lending options, investment opportunities and access to talents. I can borrow against my life insurance policy, my stocks, my commercial properties... etc. I get sent investment pools for large private companies when they are raising funds. If I need a competent accounting lawyer to deal with stuff. All that is a call away.

I'm not sure about you guys, but I'm constantly borrowing. And having easy access to funding options is priceless for me.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

^ what are you getting for $4 a month?

The one recurring thing I'm typically annoyed by, is having to be at a branch to initiate wire transfers. And neither Tangerine nor WealthSimple seem to support doing this at all.

Their most basic account. For our financial needs (paying the bills), it does the job.

https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/bank-ac...y-banking.html

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by Jason00S2000

It is a balance, do you live like a nerd so you can get rich when you're too old to chase the hot pussy, or do you go all-in and live as hard and as fast as you can while you're young enough to not look like a nerd 40 year old trying to relive his youth?

Besides, all it would have taken was a lucky 100 bucks into BitCoin 15 years ago, just pure luck and you've be a multi-millionaire!

Being broke currently, at least I still don't have to work a 9-5 job, that alone makes being broke not feel so bad. Being broke but being able to afford to work for yourself just enough to survive and not have to lick the sack of your boss is sooooooooooooooo much better than getting paid a good salary and working a shit 9-5. Definitely helps that I'm not on the hook to pay for my kid since my baby momma's family is mad loaded. Dodged a bullet there!

Must be wild to have 6 figures of cash in your bank account, you could literally go anywhere and do anything. Too bad most people that rich are boring as day-old oatmeal!

This has gotta be you, right??

[Hondaracer]

“I’ve got $500 so I’m basically retired”

[PeanutButter]

@rymack Are you going to take a loss on the condo if you sell? A lot of people are concerned about taking a loss on real estate, but it's just like any investment, sometimes they just don't work out. Taking a loss and moving the capital to another investment is common.

I can't imagine anyone with real estate bought in the last five years is positive cash flow, unless you put a huge down payment, which wouldn't make sense for an investment property. I would say if your real estate is cash flowing $0, I would for sure keep that. At least all your expenses are covered. Even if you're a couple hundred negative a month, I could argue it's still worth keeping.

The important thing is to have a plan for the capital if you sell. If you just sit on cash, I would rather just keep the real estate as long as your cash flow can support the monthly loss. If you don't have real estate then your only real option is the stock market. How comfortable are you with the stock market?

For the majority of equity investors I would suggest ETF's only. Buying individual stocks is a losing battle on average. TSLA for example can swing 40%, not for the faint of heart (even though I'm a long term believer).

[JDMDreams]

I was thinking more like this, but crysler Van







Why are you always sending wires. I think I've only sent one or two in my life.

[lowside67]

Disclaimer at the top... I work for BMO in our Private Wealth team, though I am not technically a Private Banker.

...

The two groups that actually NEED private banking are:

1) Those that have lending requirements that are more complicated than the branch is equipped to deal with. The important part of this is complexity, not size. If you and your partner earn a combined $1M household income and want a $3M mortgage on a $4M house, you can walk right into the branch - you do not need a private banker. However, you do need a private banker if you are self employed and retain income in your holding company, want to leverage a stock portfolio, a group of commercial buildings, private company shares, an airplane, etc.

2) You are a large deposit client who merits aggressive pricing on deposit products. This is not a large investment portfolio, but rather cash on hand - whether in personal name or holding company. A $1M sustained cash deposit balance is probably the floor on this, but generally we are seeing those clients mostly staying at the branch, and the private bank is targeting deposits more like $2M+ (you would be surprised how many people exist in Vancouver who keep $10-100M in treasury accounts, it is wild).

There are a few other groups that might end up in private banking, but do not NEED to be:

1) You have a large investment portfolio with me and want to have the dedicated point of contact for day to day banking.

2) You want the shiny debit card and are okay paying a few bucks for that privilege.

3) You have complicated transactional banking (like you travel to Europe regularly and need Euro cash on the regular or wire transactions etc) and qualify for PB, and pay the fee.

Our private bankers are revenue based and are not inclined to just go straight to the lowest rate. We have many clients who are great clients of mine and have a significant net worth, but have simple day to day needs, and we may have them work directly with the branch for the absolute lowest cost lending, but then my team fills in to provide some of the support & dedicated point of contact.

TL;DR is if you need private banking, you need it, as you have a requirement that cannot be fulfilled elsewhere in the bank. But, many people do not need it, even if they could qualify, and therefore choose to save the few bucks and can call me occasionally if they need some help.

-Mark

[Badhobz]

Soooo basically nobody here needs it.