Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[JDMDreams]

^^ Surrey it is

[68style]

Surrey is part of the lower mainland you dunce

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by 68style

That's fine I didn't get that from your post at first, but I see what you mean.

I still stand behind what I said, the average person cannot buy a first home here even if it's a condo no matter what government programs and incentives exist.

The average salary range in Vancouver is $62,000-$69,000 a year. That means a massive amount of people are well under that and then you've got a smaller percentage over it and way way over it pulling the number up.

For sake of argument say $65,000 is an average income though. Current stress tests absolutely max out your mortgage ability at 3x hour income, so the most you can borrow is $195,000 and that's at a 20% downpayment. The most expensive place you can buy is about $230,000 and that's assuming you collected $40k+ of downpayment money somehow too.

You aren't buying a condo for $230,000 of maxed out savings/borrowing costs.

The only answers are to get money from family, live with someone else or move out of Vancouver. When people are saying you're out of touch that's what they mean -- it was possible when you and I were younger but it's not anymore. Not without familial wealth or extraordinary luck/fortune.

I always take the "average salary" with a grain of salt.

So many restaurant servers who take tips, and break into 80-100k take home with lots of untaxed income.

So many trades who would be willing to take some cash job and it goes unreported.

Though not always to their benefit, also seeing people who use a company to take multiple contracts, and not pay themselves the full amount.

There's so many places and ways that people mask their income.

[68style]

Servers and cash for hire are a tiny percentage of the workers in the city... and I find it very very very hard to believe a server at an average restaurant is clearing $80k

[JDMDreams]

Slurry $300k apt, 20% down is $60000 dp not hard to borrow from friends and family, that model 3, 328i, type r is already $60000. $240000 over 30y at 3.8% is $1,114.24 month that's cheaper than rent. Add $500 housing cost you only need $48,450 annual income to qualify.

[68style]

My post is saying you can't do it without familial wealth and then you say it's easy to borrow $60,000 from friend and family?

What do you think that means? You're also forgetting about strata fees, insurance and property taxes so throw your $48k annual out the window. So stupid man.

No shit mortgage payments are cheaper than rent, nobody in the history of property ownership would ever rent something out if rent was less than morgage ya goof. Getting the property and qualifying for the mortgage are the parts hardly anybody can do alone anymore.

[CivicBlues]

People with separate incomes are shacking up

[68style]

Yes that was one of my listed only viable solutions above, right before moving away.

[JDMDreams]

You know the bank already factors in strata fees when they qualify you, that's why I added $500 month housing cost. You're telling me a normal person can't afford $1650 a month? You can go as low as 5% dp. But if you don't even attempt to save/ make a few thousand dollars a year given all the gov, rsp, tfsa, fhsa benefits but you have the energy to bitch about not being able to afford, in this market collapse market then you shouldn't live here.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by 68style

Servers and cash for hire are a tiny percentage of the workers in the city... and I find it very very very hard to believe a server at an average restaurant is clearing $80k

Most of the servers in a Chinese restaurant will be around 80. I don't know how it is for a server at say Cactus, but I wouldn't be surprised if they clear 80 on a full time schedule. The question is how many of them are full time as a lot of them doing part time. There are a lot of high end restaurants in the city and I wouldn't call it a tiny percentage.

And I also mention trades. So many people would do a cash job.

[RevYouUp]

Or just live at home for 5 years in your early 20s and save 20k a year for a 100k down payment, it’s not hard saving 20k a year living at home on a 65k salary if you’re good with money. But people are too prideful to live with their parents nowadays

[Presto]

I would think that living with parents wouldn't make your peers blink in these times. Kick that pride to the curb, yo. Gotta think about the family and the future. It may make perfect sense to live with the parents.

My sister and her family live with my mom in Coquitlam. There's no way they would've been able to get a place in a prime area if we didn't already live there. They're set up that when my mom passes (may it be a long-time away), they'll have a rental suite for extra income.

Props to my mom. She's the RE mogul in the family.

[68style]

Originally Posted by RevYouUp

Or just live at home for 5 years in your early 20s and save 20k a year for a 100k down payment, it’s not hard saving 20k a year living at home on a 65k salary if you’re good with money. But people are too prideful to live with their parents nowadays

Okay you’re right it’s super easy to buy real estate in Vancouver, it’s very affordable you just have to live at home for 5 years saving and never have any credit issues and supportive parents the entire time and a decent job and no debt from school or anything like that. No issues at all! Carry on!

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by RevYouUp

Or just live at home for 5 years in your early 20s and save 20k a year for a 100k down payment, it’s not hard saving 20k a year living at home on a 65k salary if you’re good with money. But people are too prideful to live with their parents nowadays

I had to take out student loans to get through school and when I did graduate at age 24 I landed right as tech was going through it's regular cycle of crashes so my first job paid $30k/yr (I even had to take a short term cut to $24k for a while) while I was carrying $30k of loans (that's roughly $53k in today's money) then things went sideways at the company I was at and I didn't crack $50k in income till I was 28. I lived at home all that time and I started paying $300/mo in rent to my parents once I had a job. (When I hit 30 my parents helped me with a $25k gift and I was able to buy a condo for $189k - even then things were tight.)

I don't think this is at all an abnormal experience for the typical 20 something - both from my circle at the time but from the 20 somethings I work with.

There's a slim number of folks who can nab a $65k job right out of school, are debt free AND have the option to live rent free with their parents.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by supafamous

There's a slim number of folks who can nab a $65k job right out of school, are debt free AND have the option to live rent free with their parents.

But those are the stories that everyone remembers!

Also, I am not kidding you -- 2 of my very good friends went to work at Microsoft. One right after graduation; the other soon after graduation (within a year) on referral from the first guy. Another good friend went to Sun maybe a year or so after grad? Another went to eBay after working a local tech job for a couple of months in Vancouver.

Meanwhile, I was the bum that didn't have a regular job for like more than a year after grad...

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

But those are the stories that everyone remembers!

...

Meanwhile, I was the bum that didn't have a regular job for like more than a year after grad...

Ha, I'd add that there's more to life in your 20s than saving all your money so you can buy a crappy apartment in buttfuck Abbotsford. The 20s are the time to screw around - smoke weed, backpack the world, go do odd jobs, read books, etc (I only read books though - I didn't do any of that other shit).

I speak to a lot of recent grads and early pros (late 20s) and so many people just aren't ready to make big decisions that lock them into a career that they may ultimately not like at all. It's not laziness, it's not indecision, it's the time it takes to grow up (I was an unworldly naive 20 something).

[RevYouUp]

Originally Posted by 68style

Okay you’re right it’s super easy to buy real estate in Vancouver, it’s very affordable you just have to live at home for 5 years saving and never have any credit issues and supportive parents the entire time and a decent job and no debt from school or anything like that. No issues at all! Carry on!

Student loans are now interest free and you can get away making the minimum payments until it is paid off, $200-$300 a month.

I don’t disagree that your party phrase will suffer a little living with your parents. But the trade off is there. I’d trade away 5 years of “partying” to secure a better financial future (property or not). 100K will compound quickly with time on your side in your 20s.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by RevYouUp

Student loans are now interest free and you can get away making the minimum payments until it is paid off, $200-$300 a month.

I don’t disagree that your party phrase will suffer a little living with your parents. But the trade off is there. I’d trade away 5 years of “partying” to secure a better financial future (property or not). 100K will compound quickly with time on your side in your 20s.

Let's split this into two items:

1. It's not the norm to be financially capable in your 20s of even saving $20k/yr - if anything, it's extremely rare because you need so many things to fall right for it to happen. You need to be debt free (or nearly), you need your parents to be down with you living with them for near free, and you need to be able to land a job that pays well enough that you could save $20k/yr (say $65k). $65k at age 23 is an exception, not the norm - it's reserved for the top university grads, people who get a STEM degree and maybe a business degree.

2. It's not just about giving up their party phase - it's about having the time and space to grow up. My peers who moved out early were so much more mature and worldly than I was - they had to learn responsibilities that I didn't have to learn till I was in my 30s. That lack of worldliness absolutely held me back in my career, it held me back in how I formed relationships, and it held back my ability to learn. The party phase part is not the important part, living at home stunts your growth as a person. I was very lucky that I had the emotional and intellectual capacity to eventually catch up with most of what I missed but I see this gap all the time in the people I work with - the ones who moved out early invariably are far more well rounded individuals and generally more successful in the long run.

[JDMDreams]

Yes I'm not sure I know how many 18 year olds that just moved out or just get kicked out by your parents at that age. Either you are rich international student that your parents pay for rent and you work your min wage job here and pay international student tuition to get your pr.


Why would you not be living at home at 19. Unless you were unlucky and had to feed yourself, then you would have learnt about money and the real world at a much younger age.

[donk.]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Let's split this into two items:

1. It's not the norm to be financially capable in your 20s of even saving $20k/yr - if anything, it's extremely rare because you need so many things to fall right for it to happen. You need to be debt free (or nearly), you need your parents to be down with you living with them for near free, and you need to be able to land a job that pays well enough that you could save $20k/yr (say $65k). $65k at age 23 is an exception, not the norm - it's reserved for the top university grads, people who get a STEM degree and maybe a business degree.

I heavily disagree, your example must apply to international students and kids that got kicked out from home

At 20, most of my friends were living at home for free, probably until the age of 23-27 when most moved out. Some may have chipped in 500$/mo. Their only expenses were women, drugs, vacations, car, eating out. (Choosing to save for a downpayment or do drugs is a different story)

Saving 20k a year is easy while at home, thats a minimum wage job, working weekends only, (15k in your pocket). That leaves you with M-F for school. Add in a few evening shifts when there arent exams, second job, work while school has vacation, etc.

The debt, thats correct, cant save if your trying to pay that off... Most pay that off when their income isnt min wage although

If your 20-25, in school, living at home, and not working, your lazy and honestly your parents should be beating you. This is the best time of your life to save money, if you have the willpower, your expenses are zero.

I hope one day a "life graph" will come out, and you can compare what your 20s looked like vs other people (study hours, hours worked, hours enjoying live, relaxing, sleeping, drinking, etc) future shit i know, would make a good moooooovie

[dark0821]

on that topic.... my oldest bro in law is having a tough time, he has a mansion paid cash for by parents, so no mortgage.

But his parents in China are retiring so they are like you gotta keep the house afloat yourself now, we have limited savings that we need to take care of ourselves.

So now he is scrambling to keep up with the huge heating costs, property tax, utilities and I wanna say he wasn't expecting it, so he has 2 car loans that takes up most of his income.

His wife joked about downsizing, and bro in law was like if the RE market wasn't as fucked as it is now, he would probably downsize lololol.

My wife is like he fucked, I am like naw... his parents got him, he should be fine.

But yea, he said he went from just food + 2 cars, to now all utilities + like elec/gas/internet etc etc. He just told us over CNY dinner that he even cancelled Youtube Premium, Amazon Prime, F1, Disney+ and NetFlix.

We be like... no, our free accounts that we freeload of lmao... but yea...

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by donk.

Saving 20k a year is easy while at home, thats a minimum wage job, working weekends only, (15k in your pocket). That leaves you with M-F for school. Add in a few evening shifts when there arent exams, second job, work while school has vacation, etc.

Your math doesn't seem to add up - a full time min wage job grosses $36k so 20 hrs a week is $18k. How does one save $20k when they gross $18k/yr?

It's hard to get clean data on how much money people make in their 20's - Stats Can breaks the demo into 16-25 and 25-34 but for 25-34 the average income in BC is $56k the 25-30 range making mostly less than that - figure $50k gross which is about $40k net and then even less for the 20-25 crowd.

If you're netting $40k a year you're not going to save $20k a year unless you're debt free and rent free.

Originally Posted by donk.

The debt, thats correct, cant save if your trying to pay that off... Most pay that off when their income isnt min wage although

If your 20-25, in school, living at home, and not working, your lazy and honestly your parents should be beating you. This is the best time of your life to save money, if you have the willpower, your expenses are zero.

Not that I would necessarily make the bet but if the game is to maximise net worth over the long run then investing in yourself in terms of things like education are FAR more valuable than working a min wage (or similar) job to try to save as much money as possible.

If one has the smarts and can learn the discipline they're far better off focusing on schooling and become a doctor (or similar).

FWIW, in my 20s (and my early 30s) I mostly worked heavy hours so I could learn as much as I could (it paid off in my case). I think working really hard is to be done in your 20s - your time is not worth much so go learn as much as you can. I also think it's perfectly fine to mix that with the life experiences that help people grow up.

[JDMDreams]

Heloc baby, but yes wtf was he doing with his money all these years, rent out basement? Air BNB sell and move back to China and be China rich

Originally Posted by dark0821

on that topic.... my oldest bro in law is having a tough time, he has a mansion paid cash for by parents, so no mortgage.

But his parents in China are retiring so they are like you gotta keep the house afloat yourself now, we have limited savings that we need to take care of ourselves.

So now he is scrambling to keep up with the huge heating costs, property tax, utilities and I wanna say he wasn't expecting it, so he has 2 car loans that takes up most of his income.

His wife joked about downsizing, and bro in law was like if the RE market wasn't as fucked as it is now, he would probably downsize lololol.

My wife is like he fucked, I am like naw... his parents got him, he should be fine.

But yea, he said he went from just food + 2 cars, to now all utilities + like elec/gas/internet etc etc. He just told us over CNY dinner that he even cancelled Youtube Premium, Amazon Prime, F1, Disney+ and NetFlix.

We be like... no, our free accounts that we freeload of lmao... but yea...

[68style]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

You know the bank already factors in strata fees when they qualify you, that's why I added $500 month housing cost. You're telling me a normal person can't afford $1650 a month? You can go as low as 5% dp. But if you don't even attempt to save/ make a few thousand dollars a year given all the gov, rsp, tfsa, fhsa benefits but you have the energy to bitch about not being able to afford, in this market collapse market then you shouldn't live here.

Blahblahblah none of this addresses you continually ignoring where I said you can't do it WITHOUT FAMILY HELP.

[Traum]

Speaking of how the late teens and earlier 20's should or could be lived, one extremely fortunate thing that I just happened to stumble upon out of pure dumb luck is -- somehow I thought it was a good idea to leave the comfort and nearly all expenses paid world of my parents' house and go finish university in buttfxxk nowhere in Onterrible on my own. I had scholarships / stipends / worked so it didn't leave me in complete financial ruins, but living on my own, even when it was at the dorm at first, rapidly forced me to grow up in ways that I would never have been able to had I stayed in the comfort of my parents' home.

And because I was still in school, life as a student still allowed me to live at reduced expenses compared to what a normal adult living on his own would have cost, plus I was still able to leverage (ie. milk) all the perks that a university life had to offer. Even back then, I knew I was living the time of my life, so I was enjoying every fleeting minute of it. My only regret was -- the Chinese belief of studying hard was too strongly instilled in me, so I was still spending too much time on studying instead of partying or hooking up more LOL~

So much fail on the not partying / banging chicks part LOL~