Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by UFO

^ I think there are also many who are hoping to cash in on this foreign money, and have their homes listed for exorbitant amounts hoping for that 1 right buyer--it only takes 1. The foreign buyers are not stupid and looking to park their money just anywhere. When you have the cash on hand, you have choices and options, and obviously you would still want value.

ie. 25% off on a house asking for 2M that's really only worth 1.5M isn't really much of a deal at all, its an inflated asking price. Also if it's been on the market for so long, you have to wonder why, and are the sellers actually keen on selling or just fishing for the right buyer and cashing in big.

It does make sense but goes against a lot of what people keep repeating. That it's illegal money they want to get out of China and into physical assets. If they want value, they really wouldn't be looking in Vancouver. Victoria would be better bang for the buck.

I guess the main reason why I'm not buying into the idea of foreign money is that people can't seem to agree on some basic things. Whether it's here or not, legal or illegal money, China, Europe or Russian. CBC a few weeks ago even threw out the entire idea and said baby boomers are driving the market. That's a lot of uncertainty and when it comes to investing, I don't like uncertainty. Just the way I am... lol

The house I keep bringing up on Westview does seem fairly priced to me for the area. A pair a few blocks away went for about the same price this guy is asking except they were sold back in 2013. Same big lot subdivided into two Vancouver Special sized homes. Brand new when they were sold

[iEatClams]

Well, just think of it this way, some of these buyers put down $2-$5M on a property. That's $2-5M that's now into the local market. Which goes to either boomers or speculators or developers who were previously holding that property. That creates a trickle down effect.

Some of the properties on the west side are selling for $10 million + right now. Most locals don’t have that kind of money.

Also I think Edgemont isn’t a place with a lot of Chinese buyers. You need to come down to Richmond, Vancouver, and Burnaby.

Our prices make cities LA or FLorida look dirt cheap. But why go to Vancouver over LA? I don’t know. But due to the high Asian population, access to health care, education, Chinese lawyers, bankers etc, it might be like a second home for them here. Plus it’s relatively close? I’m just speculating here.

What isn’t speculation is that other cities, where real estate has increased to absurd amounts, have collected data that shows that Chinese money is affecting their real estate. So why would it not affect us here, especially since we have a lot of mainland Chinese folks? I mean, we all see those N sign asian drivers with Ferraris everywhere. I’m sure that kid is a CEO of a tech-startup.


UBC housing expert wants more oversight on foreign real estate investment - British Columbia - CBC News

A UBC professor says the lack of government control over foreign real estate investment in Vancouver is surprising, because other cities that have a large amount of foreign ownership have measures to control soaring housing prices.

"This is quite unusual for government to have a hands-off position to an important public need," said David Ley, a UBC geography professor who has studied five cities with housing bubbles, including Hong Kong, Singapore, Sydney, London, and Vancouver.

"In other countries there is a much more active attempt to respond to the shelter needs of citizens," said Ley.

Foreign ownership on Vancouver real estate needs 'creative' policies: David Mulroney
Average Canadian home price is $440K - what will that buy?
A recent report ranked Vancouver second among the least-affordable major metropolitan housing markets worldwide.

Ley said one of the challenges is that data is not being collected, so any time there is a complaint about foreign investment, the government says it is purely anecdotal.

David Ley
UBC geography professor David Ley (UBC)

"I could tell you in percentage terms the shares of foreign buyers in other cities I am looking at. We know the percentage of overseas buyers, we even know where they are coming from. Here you need to piece things together," said Ley. "It has been demonstrated beyond doubt, because they have the data, that overseas investment is a key factor."

While there is no 'silver bullet' solution, Ley said Canada could learn from Australia and other governments that have put in measures to control foreign investment. The Australian government recently announced foreigners who purchase homes illegally could face jail time and fines up to $600,000. Hong Kong penalizes mainland China buyers, while London has a capital gains tax.

"The federal and provincial government is missing in action," said Ley. "The municipal government with very limited resources is aware of the problem and trying to address the problem through a variety of means, but clearly they do not have the taxation capacity to get involved in the scale we need."

Ley said the future outlook isn't promising, unless there is intervention.

"Things are going to get worse because our dollar is depreciating close to 20 per cent, which means for overseas investors, our property has just become 20 per cent cheaper," said Ley.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by 68style

$2 mill and you can't find a house in Richmond for 4 people?! How much space do you need, half the market in Richmond is for sure just under or around the $1-mill marker.

NKC ONE wants a custom built home, large lot (he has a large dog or two), in a specific area. Just the build itself will cost around 800k.

[und3f3at3d]

I live in Richmond in the seafair area, I probably get fobby real estate agents ringing my doorbell once or twice a month asking me to sell my lot, promising me way above market value for my place. And literally every week I will get a letter in my mailbox written in chinese or broken ass english from a fob, asking if I am interested in selling lolol

Ive lived in my home for 25 years, and growing up here it does make me sad to see all the local neighbors move out and their houses being torn down and giant mansions being raised. I use to be able to go for a run or walk my dogs around the neighborhood without the fear of being run over, now i got all these fucking fobs ripping it up and down the street in their audi mercs and bmws.

[!LittleDragon]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

Well, just think of it this way, some of these buyers put down $2-$5M on a property. That's $2-5M that's now into the local market. Which goes to either boomers or speculators or developers who were previously holding that property. That creates a trickle down effect.

Some of the properties on the west side are selling for $10 million + right now. Most locals don’t have that kind of money.

Also I think Edgemont isn’t a place with a lot of Chinese buyers. You need to come down to Richmond, Vancouver, and Burnaby.

Our prices make cities LA or FLorida look dirt cheap. But why go to Vancouver over LA? I don’t know. But due to the high Asian population, access to health care, education, Chinese lawyers, bankers etc, it might be like a second home for them here. Plus it’s relatively close? I’m just speculating here.

What isn’t speculation is that other cities, where real estate has increased to absurd amounts, have collected data that shows that Chinese money is affecting their real estate. So why would it not affect us here, especially since we have a lot of mainland Chinese folks? I mean, we all see those N sign asian drivers with Ferraris everywhere. I’m sure that kid is a CEO of a tech-startup.


UBC housing expert wants more oversight on foreign real estate investment - British Columbia - CBC News

Those multimillion dollar west side properties make great news but really, majority of the population isn't going to look at those at all. It's a very small portion of the market but when one sells, it's all over the news and everyone knows.

Edgemont is just a place I go to for lunch but I don't think it's much different from Whiterock of 10 years ago. Well off area, not a lot of Chinese. With all these complaints of properties purchased and sitting empty, why wouldn't they purchase Edgemont property and let it sit empty? Or any of the other places I drive by?

I rent in Vancouver-Killarney, own in Vancouver-Fraserview, work in North Vancouver. I have family all over Vancouver/Richmond/Burnaby and the lady friend is in New West. I cover most of the lower mainland area to get to where I need to go and I see the same "For Sale" signs day in/day out. It's fairly easy to take a screen shot of the MLS map and compare it to the same map a month later. You can see which ones are sitting stale.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

I honestly don't understand how people can say it's not foreign money. Almost everyone I know says foreign money plays a huge role. It's a trickle down effect.

I'm not even saying it's a bad thing, as I think it's a good thing. I just want restrictions so it doesn't get out of hand or taxes so that we can capitalize on it better.

Because it's not convenient to the narrative that Metro Vancouver is no different from other markets and that Metro Vancouver is in general, a shitty place to live and develop your career.

It's naive to believe that foreign money doesn't have an influence here. As I've said before, it's trickled down to all aspects of life in Metro Vancouver. The fancy cars that no person under the age of 30 has business driving, the fact that Mandarin is the lingua franca of Burnaby-Metrotown and Richmond, the rise of anything French in the culinary scene, the expansion of retail luxury stores, etc.

[Mike Oxbig]

China sent Gregor Robertson's girlfriend here to make this possible.

[melloman]

Metro Vancouver residents are running out of options when it comes to buying a home, and Premier Christy Clark is not about to help.

With housing prices climbing dramatically – up 12 per cent from 2014 as of April – those fed up with the unaffordability of Vancouver have been asking for help from municipal, provincial and federal leaders, but to no avail.

Clark is satisfied with the current market and worries that if taxes on foreign real estate investors are implemented, “housing prices will drop.”

“That’s good for first-time home buyers but not for anybody who is depending on the equity in their home to maybe get a loan or use that to finance some other projects,” she said Tuesday.

18,000 people have already signed an online petition to restrict foreign ownership in Vancouver. “It’s time to stand up and protect our community—Vancouver is not for sale,” the petition reads. “The housing needs of Greater Vancouver residents are more important than the profit margins of foreign speculators.”

In Australia, the government recently proposed a policy that would fine or jail foreign investors over illegal home sales. The crackdown calls for fines of CAD$121,000 and up to three years jail for individuals found breaking the rules. Companies will face higher fines of CAD$605,000. Third parties, such as real estate agents, who assist foreigners in breaching the laws could be fined up to CAD$40,400 for individuals and CAD$202,000 for companies.

But in Canada, no such law exists.

The Vancouverites for Affordable Housing organization is now planning an Affordable Housing Rally to take place on Sunday, May 24 at the Vancouver Art Gallery.
Statistics about Vancouver housing:

-Average price of a detached bungalow rose 10.6 per cent between 2014 and 2015 to $1,174,509
-Average price of a standard two-storey home rose 10.3 per cent between 2014 and 2015 to $1,267,287
-Average price of a condominium rose 4.9 per cent between 2014 and 2015 to $506,624
-Owning a home costs on average 48 per cent of a household’s income
-Vancouver’s housing market is the second least affordable in the world, behind Hong Kong
-The average home will cost $2,100,000 by 2030, according to a recent study by Vancity.

Christy Clark says no to taxing foreign real estate investors

Another reason I'll be voting against her in the next election.

[Spoon]

^
Can't blame her for being self serving. Higher real estate value = higher property taxes.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Can't blame her after all, she is after property tax oh and her house is most likely 1+million so why would she want her house to lose value and lose revenue.

She is not there for us, only her own pockets.

[Traum]

The only reason Crusty Cunt doesn't give a shxt is, she knows the provincial NDP is too fxxking useless to unseat the Liberals, so she can continue to do whatever dafuq she wants that will line her own pockets and suit her own agenda.

The lack of housing affordability even for the middle class should really have been drummed up into a much bigger issue than it currently is by the NDP. This is something they could ride on to build some votes and support for the next provincial election. But of course, their lack of action shows you how stupid and short sighted they are, and why they still got their a$$es kicked in the last election...

[Z3guy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I've got a few friends who work in financial management and higher end investment management and he says you'd be blown away with the amount of people even in their late 40's/50's who make 250,000+ and in some cases two incomes over 200,000 and they have nothing in terms of investments or retirement funds.

Says they look into their financial planning and you see automatic payments for mortgage, Mercedes, BMW, lawn care, country club dues, yet they have under 50k in savings. Doctors and dentists etc

I think this more common than not in Vancouver. Keeping up with the Jones is the easiest way to end up poor......

[buhdeh]

I sure am glad Clark thinks a city like Vancouver with such low density, no economy, no sustainability, limited career opportunities, and weak earning potentials should be like this. I wouldn't be surprised to see a massive brain drain of talented/high potential workers from Vancouver to Toronto, Seattle, or wherever within 5 years.

Hope you guys enjoy having your economy hinge on restaurants, clothing stores, and jewelry stores while the "successful" people end up working in crappy satellite offices doing reject work! Maybe Vancitybuzz will get one of their unpaid interns to write another garbage article telling us how Vancouver is the hottest tech hub in the world - you know, because HootSuite!

Obviously, I'm exaggerating but you guys get my point.

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Traum

The only reason Crusty Cunt doesn't give a shxt is, she knows the provincial NDP is too fxxking useless to unseat the Liberals, so she can continue to do whatever dafuq she wants that will line her own pockets and suit her own agenda.

The lack of housing affordability even for the middle class should really have been drummed up into a much bigger issue than it currently is by the NDP. This is something they could ride on to build some votes and support for the next provincial election. But of course, their lack of action shows you how stupid and short sighted they are, and why they still got their a$$es kicked in the last election...

This. I can't fucking stand Kristy Clown and her idiocy - especially with this latest development that only serves to show how she essentially doesn't give a fuck about Canadians - but at the end of the day, the NDP has the political equivalent of a nuclear bomb in their arsenal (hot button issues like promising to tackle foreign investment, "fix" the housing market and tax/cap the number of empty homes in metropolitan areas) but is refusing to unleash it...

[will068]

It looks like she is placing her bets that there are more homeowners than non-homeowners who will appear to vote in the next provincial election.

By appeasing to the homeowners by not purposely forcing government intervention to tax foreign buyers, home values do not drop (given that IR does not rise considerably) and home owners are happy.

What we should is focus our attention to the Federal Level and vote for the Federal Party with the most history of racism that will be more incline to heavily tax newly landed wealthy foreigners. Oh wait.. nvr mind...

[Harvey Specter]

I've been trying to get a lot in Fraserview (Vancouver) to hold and build on once my investments pay off and I've basically given up. The average tear down is been listed for $1.3m+, most are selling for $1.5m+. The realtor that I use told me new home prices in the Fraserview area will be $3+ million next year. Unreal.

[flagella]

Yea.... because realtors have historical track record of predicting real estate prices accurately.

[adambomb]

Sigh.

This thread was more fun back in 2012 when it was full of doom and gloom on the Vancouver housing market. How every RS real estate expert here predicted in 2014-15 that Vancouver would suffer some sort of price crash and current homeowners would lose everything except the clothes on their backs. "Buying in Vancouver is a bad move." I remember hearing that back in 2012.

Now the crying is all about foreign ownership and money laundering and how prices are way too high and homes sit empty. Day after day people complain about how this current situation is all Christy's and her liberal gov't fault that no one can buy now, yet these same people passed on home purchases years ago because the media was fearmongering a price drop.


Did anybody on RS not purchase a home back in 2012 because you thought the market would take a shit? Its ok to admit you were wrong now. +1.5mil for a teardown in Fraserview makes me wish I pulled more triggers back in 2012.

[iEatClams]

If you know anybody that has access to the realtors mls listing services , you can easily see what’s selling. Just as an example , about a week ago my friend sends me some sales that were sold within two days at that time.

These are properties that have sold way above asking listing around twos of when he sent it to me:

6952 Lanark St. Vancouver. List price (LP) $1,349,900 Sold for $1,465,000
2290 4th Ave E. Vancouver LP $1,249,900, sold for $1,470,000
2651 Triumph LP$1,330,000 sold for $1,460,000
6990 Rupert LP $1,188,888 sold for $1,395,000
3218 E 21st Ave LP $1,299,000 sold for $1,350,000


That’s just a few in east van that sold above asking. There are many others that are selling for $1.2M - $1.4 Million and got around list price. Most are tear downs or older homes. . . . . good luck trying to afford a house in Vancouver.

[iEatClams]

"housewife" buys $8 million dollar house. There's a screenshot/link of the MLS listing if you click on the article.

Slightly expensive housing market: Vancouver home sells for more than $2 million above listed price | National Post

A Vancouver home sale that closed this month at more than $2 million — or 33 per cent — above the listed price is the latest eyebrow-raising real-estate deal in a city racked by worries about affordability.

The home, at 1383 West 32nd Ave. in Vancouver’s tony Shaughnessy neighbourhood, was listed for $5,990,000 on Feb. 5 of this year, according to its MLS listing. It sold for $8,010,000 on Feb. 17, and the sale was finalized on April 16.

The listing broker for the sale, Stuart Bonner of Re/Max, said 10 prospective buyers expressed interest in the property during the 12 days it was on the market. That level of interest is fairly normal, Bonner said, but the sale coming in at more than $2 million above the listed price was “unusual.”

“It’s that kind of a market,” Bonner said.

Bonner said Vancouver’s supply of detached houses is shrinking while more lots are converted to townhouses and apartments.

“When you’ve got too little supply (of detached houses) and too many buyers, that’s always what happens,” he said. “There’s only one result: Prices go up.”

The property’s assessed value this year is listed at $5,094,600, records show, meaning the sale price was $2.9 million above its assessed value.

Gerry Kahrmann/The Province
Gerry Kahrmann/The ProvinceThis home at 1383 West 32nd Ave. in Vancouver sold for more than $2 million over the listed price.
Bonner has worked in real estate on Vancouver’s west side for 36 years, and said in that time the housing market has “absolutely” changed. He recently saw a property he had sold for $1.98 million a few years earlier that resold for more than $2.5 million.

“I was thinking, ‘Holy smokes, in three years it’s gone up $600 grand?’” he said. “When you look at it logically, you can understand why it happens. But it is a lot of money. It’s expensive, and it makes it difficult for people.”

Data released this week by Desjardins economists showed housing “affordability continued to slide in Vancouver” in the first quarter of 2015.

The Desjardins Affordability Index, based on the average household disposable income compared with the income needed to obtain a mortgage on an average-priced home, was released Wednesday. The report notes Vancouver’s average property-sale price was nearly $850,000, twice as high as the average across Canada.

The wood-framed, two-storey house on West 32nd Avenue has four bedrooms and three bathrooms, according to the listing, which also notes the property, on a 100-foot lot, is “perfect for redevelopment.”

The lot is zoned for a single-family dwelling, and doesn’t meet guidelines to be subdivided into two lots, said Susan Haid, assistant director of planning for the City of Vancouver.

MLS
MLSThe MLS listing for the home.
No one answered when a Province reporter knocked on the house’s front door Thursday afternoon, and there were no vehicles in the driveway. While the lawn and landscaping were well-maintained, it appeared the house was empty.

Land-title records list the property’s new sole owner, Xiuhua Li. Records list Li’s occupation as “housewife.”

Bonner said he believes the new owner’s family has lived in the Vancouver area for some time and plans to move to the West 32nd Avenue property and live there.

Records list the property’s previous owner as John Everett Stark, lawyer. Bonner said the Stark family had lived there for more than 50 years before selling this year.

Last month, an East Vancouver home sale made headlines when it sold for $567,000 over the listed price. That house, at 65 East 26th Ave., was listed at $1.6 million and sold for more than $2.1 million.

[C-One]

I've been lurking this forum for many years but never been compelled to post until now.

I hope anyone calling for government action to restrict or tax foreign ownership aren't the same ones complaining about the absurdity of raising the min wage rates to $15/hr post a few posts back. Because in the end it's the exact same thing. Government intervention and wealth transfer from one group to another and not letting the free market work as it should.

So hopefully everyone calling for this tax to foreign owners is also calling for a raise of minimum wage to $15.
Or else it would be quite hypocritical to demand one type of government intervention and be upset at another.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by iEatClams

"housewife" buys $8 million dollar house. There's a screenshot/link of the MLS listing if you click on the article.

Interesting... I assume the person paying for the property is from China and this is his way of getting his money out of the country, but not putting his name on the title so that he can claim that he doesn't own anything. But to put his wife/partner as the sole owner, she can divorce the guy and keep the house!

[4444]

Originally Posted by Traum

The only reason Crusty Cunt doesn't give a shxt is, she knows the provincial NDP is too fxxking useless to unseat the Liberals, so she can continue to do whatever dafuq she wants that will line her own pockets and suit her own agenda.

The lack of housing affordability even for the middle class should really have been drummed up into a much bigger issue than it currently is by the NDP. This is something they could ride on to build some votes and support for the next provincial election. But of course, their lack of action shows you how stupid and short sighted they are, and why they still got their a$$es kicked in the last election...

>70% home ownership in Canada, highest it's ever been (read into that what you will) - she's just pandering to the voting majority.

[GGnoRE]

Originally Posted by C-One

I've been lurking this forum for many years but never been compelled to post until now.

I hope anyone calling for government action to restrict or tax foreign ownership aren't the same ones complaining about the absurdity of raising the min wage rates to $15/hr post a few posts back. Because in the end it's the exact same thing. Government intervention and wealth transfer from one group to another and not letting the free market work as it should.

So hopefully everyone calling for this tax to foreign owners is also calling for a raise of minimum wage to $15.
Or else it would be quite hypocritical to demand one type of government intervention and be upset at another.

woah. applying first year econ too literally here eh

The point of the foreign-ownership tax is to make foreigners bear the deadweight loss created by government intervention while domestic citizens benefit from affordable prices.

Minimum wage is a different matter because hyper-inflating the cost to employers would do more harm to all of domestic consumers including the min-wagers in the long run.

[Gululu]

Gregor's house was sold yesterday by my friend

List price 1.78M; Sold price 1.98M;