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Old 11-01-2012, 10:47 AM   #51
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The thing that always bugged me about the UPASS (I was in UBC when it first started) was the premise that they had every student pay, but knowing that not everybody would use it. On top of the congestion on the buses now at peak hours, if everyone with a UPASS decided to take the bus, the system wouldn't probably be able to handle it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:53 AM   #52
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they should just eliminate the upass system and make students who use transit pay full price (or if they're nice enough maybe a reduced monthly rate for students with valid ID). If the argument that student's can't afford full price comes up, then a good counterargument is that student's who don't use their upasses can't afford to lose $40 a month...Maybe this would reduce money loss through fraud.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
So you live across the street from the school... how do you get everywhere else? Is everything in your life within walking distance? If you use the transit system a few times a month its basically paid back.

How do you get to work? Or is that within walking distance too? You should be paying $30 just for being so god damn lucky to have a complete life in a few block radius.

Don't work? Then how are you paying for university? Parents paying for it? Then shut up about the $30.

Do you drive a car, or have a private chauffeur? Again, see above.

I guess the only person I could see complaining about this (with a valid argument), is some bike riding vegan, who lives off blackberry and underbrush salads in a tent across the street from the school, selling hand woven promise bracelets to pay for tuition each semester.

I have a hunch the people in this thread are more of the - my parents paid for my car and university education, and they are sick of my lazy ass being unable to hold down a part time job at Swiss Chalet, so I need the $30 secretly returned after they pay it, so I have a little extra beer coin.

Pretty broad stereotype. I took a semester full-time at BCIT last year and my classes weren't eligible for upass when every other full-time class was. There were people in my class coming from white rock to BCIT and they definately could have benefited from upass.

Fast forward 1 year and I moved to mission(not even in the gvrd). Mission to BCIT everyday is quite the commute and the upass pretty much useless. Only get a discount on west coast express. I rented a place within walking distance and sold my upass to a friend for $60.

Upass didn't benefit me one bit but it helps out many students who use transit. I agree that in order for it to be cost effective that it should be mandatory for every student. But I mean EVERY full-time student. Another good suggestion above was incorporating it with student ID. I would sell a cardboard upass but not my student ID.


Cliffs:
-Keep upass mandatory but make it less fraud friendly
-Even if upass was optional people will still buy cheap and sell for profit
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:46 AM   #54
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I don't see how it could be "illegal". It's against TOS, for sure but illegal?
I think they're reaching in trying to charge her with fraud.

Fraud is "Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."

I'm not sure there is criminal deception here.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:47 AM   #55
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IMO it's only this year that there has been a significant spike in Upass related fraud, why? Because they switched from the once a semester/term card with your picture on it to the grab a generic bus pass once a month system. Pretty sure getting those machines set-up/installed on campus and printing passes each month costs more than the old system.

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Old 11-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnly1000 View Post
IMO it's only this year that there has been a significant spike in Upass related fraud, why? Because they switched from the once a semester/term card with your picture on it to the grab a generic bus pass once a month system. Pretty sure getting those machines set-up/installed on campus and printing passes each month costs more than the old system.

JMHO
And do you know why they changed to this new setup?

U-Pass fraudsters deported to China - British Columbia - CBC News
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:50 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnly1000 View Post
IMO it's only this year that there has been a significant spike in Upass related fraud, why? Because they switched from the once a semester/term card with your picture on it to the grab a generic bus pass once a month system. Pretty sure getting those machines set-up/installed on campus and printing passes each month costs more than the old system.

JMHO
Wow its generic passes now? No-fucking-wonder.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #58
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Wow its generic passes now? No-fucking-wonder.
The "genius"/powers-at-be at Translink..
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:35 PM   #59
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the "generic" ones used now have some unique code on them. if transink really wants to audit someone, it's all in a database since you now have to use your student card to get one issued. on top of that, there are letter combinations at the start of each code that distinguishes each school. so for a transit police spot check, if they see that the student id doesn't match the letter combination on the pass, then you're questioned. that's only if the transit police are really paying attention though
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
So you live across the street from the school... how do you get everywhere else? Is everything in your life within walking distance? If you use the transit system a few times a month its basically paid back.

How do you get to work? Or is that within walking distance too? You should be paying $30 just for being so god damn lucky to have a complete life in a few block radius.

Don't work? Then how are you paying for university? Parents paying for it? Then shut up about the $30.

Do you drive a car, or have a private chauffeur? Again, see above.

I guess the only person I could see complaining about this (with a valid argument), is some bike riding vegan, who lives off blackberry and underbrush salads in a tent across the street from the school, selling hand woven promise bracelets to pay for tuition each semester.

I have a hunch the people in this thread are more of the - my parents paid for my car and university education, and they are sick of my lazy ass being unable to hold down a part time job at Swiss Chalet, so I need the $30 secretly returned after they pay it, so I have a little extra beer coin.

Why should people pay because they're lucky enough to live nearby or own a car? Why should they just suck it up and think "Oh, others are less fortunate."? $30 is $30. It's my $30 and I'm being forced to pay it because some people need to use the bus despite the fact that I don't.

AND I'm not allowed to sell that $30 monthly pass to someone that would actually use it BECAUSE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY USE IT. Translink wants to make sure that only a certain number of people that buy the Upass will actually use it.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if public transit was actually, y'know...good but Translink isn't a crown corp...they're concerned with profits rather than dumping the money into improving the system. They're always complaining that they don't have enough money while constantly increasing fares with only a tiny improvement in service.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #61
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they should just eliminate the upass system and make students who use transit pay full price (or if they're nice enough maybe a reduced monthly rate for students with valid ID). If the argument that student's can't afford full price comes up, then a good counterargument is that student's who don't use their upasses can't afford to lose $40 a month...Maybe this would reduce money loss through fraud.
Yes, absolutely. A program with ninety-five percent support should be eliminated, because a select few individuals who can afford to NOT use a U-Pass choose to drive.

You're a smart one.

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Why should people pay because they're lucky enough to live nearby or own a car? Why should they just suck it up and think "Oh, others are less fortunate."? $30 is $30. It's my $30 and I'm being forced to pay it because some people need to use the bus despite the fact that I don't.

AND I'm not allowed to sell that $30 monthly pass to someone that would actually use it BECAUSE THEY WOULD ACTUALLY USE IT. Translink wants to make sure that only a certain number of people that buy the Upass will actually use it.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if public transit was actually, y'know...good but Translink isn't a crown corp...they're concerned with profits rather than dumping the money into improving the system. They're always complaining that they don't have enough money while constantly increasing fares with only a tiny improvement in service.
The system functions by the entire populous contributing to it, and the low rate users subsidizing the high rate users. Translink is not trying to ensure anything, as stated, the U-Pass system exists across North America on the same principles. If you're able to propose a new system, which achieves the same level of overall benefit without needing to tax the privileged few, I'd suggest writing down a serious proposal, because despite hundreds of universities using a U-Pass, no one has proposed a system capable of replacing it.

Translink isn't a crown corp, because it's a GVRD specific entity, and it does not turn a profit. Transit in Vancouver is significantly better than comparable cities, so your expectations of service are unrealistically high.

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Ok, what if you lived across the street from your school and you intend to walk. The option for opt out should still be there. I want to say for most people, they don't sign up for shit they don't need. (sign up for cc's you'll never use, store rewards cards, etc...)

I understand at the end of the day, there will always be people trying to take advantage of the system to make a quick buck. I don't have a solution to this problem. Everyone knows the majority post secondary students are broke as shit, so I'm not surprised this is going on.
I lived in res at UBC, but being able to walk to class didn't prevent me from using my U-Pass. I didn't need it for travel to campus, so I just used it to travel around town.

Last edited by MindBomber; 11-01-2012 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:34 PM   #62
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Yes, absolutely. A program with ninety-five percent support should be eliminated, because a select few individuals who can afford to NOT use a U-Pass choose to drive.
Before everyone goes on a tangent and continuously quote the 95% approval. It's 95% of people who voted. I think there was only a 30-40% voter turnout. The other 60% likely didn't care about the u-pass because they didn't use it or are too rich to care about paying for it.

The people who voted, voted because school reps used scare tactics to say that if they don't vote, the u-pass would be cancelled.

Just a FYI
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:42 PM   #63
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Well, as the old adage says, if you don't vote you can't complain.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #64
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Some of the people posting their "logic" is alarming - as many people have said, welcome to the real world.

By your (false) logic:
- Why do I have to subsidize the surgery for someone I don't even know?
- Why do I have to subsidize a bridge I will never take?
- Why do I have to pay for meals and shelter for criminals?

As Mindbomber said in a page back, this is how the society you live in works. Get your head out of your ass and realize that the world does not revolve around you. It's subsidized for a reason. If you don't like it, go vote. If your'e voted down, suck it up, or go to a different school.

This thread and some of its posters are a shining example why paying $25K for a post-sec. education isn't really beneficial for everyone.
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As for the original topic, she's getting charged because she is flipping multiple passes for profit, not just selling off her own...we've already established that lol.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:00 PM   #65
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:02 PM   #66
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Before everyone goes on a tangent and continuously quote the 95% approval. It's 95% of people who voted. I think there was only a 30-40% voter turnout. The other 60% likely didn't care about the u-pass because they didn't use it or are too rich to care about paying for it.

The people who voted, voted because school reps used scare tactics to say that if they don't vote, the u-pass would be cancelled.

Just a FYI
You can't say that the 60% of people that didn't vote don't use u-pass.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:37 PM   #67
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I lived in res at UBC, but being able to walk to class didn't prevent me from using my U-Pass. I didn't need it for travel to campus, so I just used it to travel around town.
I'm sorry but I thought being first Nations meant you were free of having to pay these fees? I thought you got free tuition? Did you get free tuition and then they sent you a bill for U-Pass fees? Not doubting you I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:48 PM   #68
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I'm sorry but I thought being first Nations meant you were free of having to pay these fees? I thought you got free tuition? Did you get free tuition and then they sent you a bill for U-Pass fees? Not doubting you I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case


I think MindBomber meant he lived on RESidence not at a REServe.
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:49 PM   #69
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IMO it's only this year that there has been a significant spike in Upass related fraud, why? Because they switched from the once a semester/term card with your picture on it to the grab a generic bus pass once a month system. Pretty sure getting those machines set-up/installed on campus and printing passes each month costs more than the old system.

JMHO
Wrong. There only APPEARS to be a significant spike in Upass related fraud because the changes to the system made over the last year have ALLOWED us to FIND and CATCH people taking advantage of the system.

The ACTUAL amount of MONETARY loss related to fraud has significantly gone DOWN. The changes made to the Upass system over the last year were a result of people "registering for class, get Upass, drop class, getting a free Upass" AND "claiming lost upass, getting replacements, selling one or both copies after". The latter resulted in multiple copies of an individual's upass to be in circulation (this was when uPasses lasted an entire semester).

Translink was losing $15 million a year from this.

Now, the system only allows students to receive ONE upass per month instead of for the semester so that students who try to drop classes will only have a upass for the first month. in addition, no replacement cards are issued. If you "lost it", you're SOL for that month. This ensures that only 1 copy of the upass is in circulation.

THIS was their main concern and THIS is what the changes made addressed.


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Before everyone goes on a tangent and continuously quote the 95% approval. It's 95% of people who voted. I think there was only a 30-40% voter turnout. The other 60% likely didn't care about the u-pass because they didn't use it or are too rich to care about paying for it.

The people who voted, voted because school reps used scare tactics to say that if they don't vote, the u-pass would be cancelled.

Just a FYI
every student was entitled to vote. if you were against the upass, you should have voted against it. if it is indeed true that the other 60% of the population "didn't care" or "were too rich", then that means the only people who should be complaining about the upass are the 5% of the 40% that voted. That's 2% of the overall student population. so, we should completely eliminate the upass system to satisfy 2% of the student population?
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:55 PM   #70
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I think MindBomber meant he lived on RESidence not at a REServe.
as far as I know you don't have to live on a reserve to have free post secondary education. First Nations get free education(I fully support this), when did that change?
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http://www.yukoncollege.yk.ca/blogs/...post_secondary

This is far from the truth. What is true is that First Nations can apply to their First Nation (or INAC depending on the First Nation and the student) for funding for some Post Secondary education. If approved students may receive tuition and books for their program for a limited time (usually 4 years for undergraduate studies) and may also get a small monthly student allowance.

If Mindbomber was rejected then on what grounds. If so I've lost a bit more faith in the system

Last edited by minoru_tanaka; 11-01-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:33 PM   #71
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Translink just needs to improve the current transit system so riders and commuters can feel CONFIDENT when taking bus/skytrain

sadly, Translink can't seem to get their heads straight.

I would be happy to take transit knowing that the system works efficiently.
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:36 PM   #72
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I'm sorry but I thought being first Nations meant you were free of having to pay these fees? I thought you got free tuition? Did you get free tuition and then they sent you a bill for U-Pass fees? Not doubting you I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case
I'm happy to answer that question.

It's a bit off-topic, so I placed my response in spoiler tags.

Spoiler!

Last edited by MindBomber; 11-01-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:02 PM   #73
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some schools still allow you a second upass if you pay 35$

just sayin
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:27 PM   #74
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some schools still allow you a second upass if you pay 35$

just sayin
right, you have to pay for it, you cant get a replacement for free
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:31 PM   #75
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some schools still allow you a second upass if you pay 35$

just sayin
only 1 replacement per semester...at least at UBC

during the summer they had to limit the # of replacements for "lost" pass because everyone was harsh abusing it now that people can't take courses, drop them and keep their bus pass all-summer long.

They would run out when the carding office opened the first few days of each month

UBC tightens U-Pass replacement rules after spike in summer pass losses | The UbysseyThe Ubyssey
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