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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 11-18-2012, 04:04 AM   #1
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Drive without lighted lamp

Hi, just wondering if I could request to get the footage from the Police car dash cam as evidence for my defense in court.

Diagrams here


I was waiting at the red light southbound on Granville & W12 (Blue box on top diagram on map) Cop car (red box)saw me at the stop light and waited for me.

After the light turned green, I was pulled over immediately after crossing the intersection. (2nd diagram on map)

The officer asked if I had anything to drink then got my license and returned to the car. At this point I shut off the engine and turned off all the lights and waited. The officer returned with a ticket for driving without light lamps.

I told him I had my lights on the whole time coming from Squamish cruise and returning home. He went to the front of my car and said the lamps are off.

Am I require to leave lights on when I am pulled over on the side of the road? Hope the video tape on the police cruiser can give me a hand since I am certain my lamps are on, passed several police cruisers and road block on lions gate with no issue. Does this carry any penalty points? (4.01 Drive without lighted lamp MVA)

PS: Worse case scenario in court, if I cant provide evidence and the officer also have no evidence that I had my lights off; how will it proceed? I am guessing its probably the officers word against mine which will most likely means I'll lose?

Update: Ticket was thrown out, details on Page 2
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:30 AM   #2
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Wow, that sucks

I thought if you're pulled over, they WANT you to shut off your engine?
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:23 AM   #3
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Honestly not a clue, but if that is what truly happened then it sucks. good luck with taking action against the ticket
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:17 PM   #4
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Why do you think he pulled you over initially?

You can argue that since you were pulled over, you weren't driving, and had your lights off.

I'm sure if you request the officer or his brance for the tapes as evidence. I think the procedure is to request it a few times, by mail and in person, and document it every time you request it.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn View Post
Why do you think he pulled you over initially?

You can argue that since you were pulled over, you weren't driving, and had your lights off.

I'm sure if you request the officer or his brance for the tapes as evidence. I think the procedure is to request it a few times, by mail and in person, and document it every time you request it.
Honestly, I believe I was singled out among the group of taxis. I wasn't speeding at all, was coming to a stop going uphill so he only saw me pulled to a gentle stop waiting at the stop light. I guess a black FR-S within a group of yellow taxi is bit too eye catching
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:10 AM   #6
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In response to your question..
Hours prescribed for lighted lamps

4.01 A person who drives or operates a vehicle on a highway must illuminate the lamps required by this Division

(a) from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise, and

(b) at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, objects on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 m.

[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]


No points for a VT issued under the Regs.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:58 AM   #7
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What else were you ticketed for?
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:59 AM   #8
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Your car got Daytime running light, right? tell the judge there are no way you can drive without a head lamp unless your engine is off, like in this case because you got pull over.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:50 PM   #9
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He probably has to meet his quota for the day/night. What a dick for pulling that on you.
Not sure if the FR-S does this, but I know that if you engage the e brake while your DRL is on in a Subaru, the DRL will turn off.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:55 PM   #10
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^Hondas do that too, but I think the ticket is for driving without lights, while he was stopped at the intersection, so the DRL thing may work well
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
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He probably has to meet his quota for the day/night. What a dick for pulling that on you.
Not sure if the FR-S does this, but I know that if you engage the e brake while your DRL is on in a Subaru, the DRL will turn off.
It does do that indeed, but I did not have my e brake on during the intersection nor was it in Park

There was no other charges on the VT, only drive without lighted lamps.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:05 PM   #12
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It's like me gettin a speeding ticket for
Driving 61 in 50 zone... While I understand clearly yes technically I was speeding, but I was just going with the traffic... Another dick move by the cops
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:25 PM   #13
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Tell the judge that you wanted to be more environmentally friendly and didn't want to leave your car idling so you shut it off
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:38 PM   #14
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Quote:
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PS: Worse case scenario in court, if I cant provide evidence and the officer also have no evidence that I had my lights off; how will it proceed? I am guessing its probably the officers word against mine which will most likely means I'll lose?
If the officer have no evidence that you had your head lamps off, it'll most likely mean you are off the charge.

This has happened to me before with a VT, I went to go dispute it for the allegation (Took over a year before I was given a court date). On the day of the hearing, the officer showed up and told me he had lost the file for my case and just told me to say whatever I wanted to the judge. It took long, but I was off the charges.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:08 PM   #15
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I remember z3german posting his request for disclosure in a thread earlier this year

EDIT
Found it
http://www.revscene.net/forums/66742...-speeding.html

It's in the spoiler within the spoiler
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:34 PM   #16
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A LOT of people have been driving around in the dark without their headlights on. This is an issue because their brake lights do no illuminate unless they step on the brakes... it is a huge hazard for anyone behind you if you are driving. I have DRL's can be bad because the driver THINKS their headlights are on because their DRL does some illumination at night.

Are you 100% sure your headlights were actually "on" and it wasn't just your DRL's?
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:13 AM   #17
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What sucks now too is that most new cars have the gauges light up all the time and the only indicator that the headlights are on is a small green icon on the dash.
Back in the old days, if I forgot my headlights, I look at my speedo and I know right away I forgot and will turn it on.
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
In response to your question..
Hours prescribed for lighted lamps

4.01 A person who drives or operates a vehicle on a highway must illuminate the lamps required by this Division

(a) from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise, and

(b) at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, objects on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 m.

[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]


No points for a VT issued under the Regs.
I think you kinda answered the question, but not totally. What's the difference between "drive" and "operate"?

If the driver has pulled over to the side of the road and turned off the engine, is he still "operating" the vehicle?
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Old 11-26-2012, 02:54 PM   #19
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^I believe yes, just like how you can't sleep in your car if you're drunk, because you're "operating" it.

But 4.01 says drives OR operates...
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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If you go to section 13 of the MV Act you come across this definition dealing with vehicles being required to be licenced when on a "highway"
Offences
13 (1) A person commits an offence if the person drives, operates, parks or is in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer on a highway


This says that they are esstentally the same thing so the Op would fall under this type of definition.
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Old 11-26-2012, 07:24 PM   #21
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Judging from the cars you own in your sig, I expect that all of them have auto headlights (not sure about the FR-S). I'm sure you could explain using that in your argument in court saying it is impossible for your headlights not to be on if they are automatic.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:03 AM   #22
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Except most (if not all) cars with auto headlights still have an "off" ability and will use DRLs only at that setting. And unless you can prove that it was on Auto and your Auto was functioning at the time, you're hooped.

I know any time I bring my car to the dealship, they turn off the Auto.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 PM   #23
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This is an issue because their brake lights do no illuminate unless they step on the brakes...
I think that's how all cars work.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:06 PM   #24
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^Most new cars have dual filament bulbs in their brake lights.

The "brake" lights are always on, when auxiliary lights or headlights are switched on, and light even more when brake pedal is depressed. Obviously this doesn't include the third brake light.

I think BlueG2 was talking about how there are no lights visible from the back at night if the guy doesn't have his aux. lights or headlights on.

BTW you're bad at sarcasm.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:49 PM   #25
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Ever tried having a conversation out of the window of a 12/24v Dodge diesel? I HAVE to turn my engine off when I get pulled over haha.
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