You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,651
Thanked 10,382 Times in 3,908 Posts
think this topic is straying a bit too far into the "guns for everyone and the media wants to brainwash you into thinking they're evil" especially considering the topic...
I assume you are speculating that return fire at the active shooter by legally armed citizens would increase the death toll in this situation.
Did you not read the Tacoma Mall shooting? Or the Clackamas Town Center shooting? Even the Appalachian School of Law shooting? All involved legally armed citizens confronting the active shooter. In none of these cases were innocent bystanders shot by legally armed citizens. In two of these cases legally armed citizens chose NOT to fire because innocent bystanders were behind their target, in the line of fire.
CCW holders are not brazen vigiliantes out to shoot first and ask questions later. They follow the four fundamental safety rules, the relevant one in this case being be sure of your target and what is in front of and behind it.
Is everyone not surprised that these documented cases of active shooters being confronted by CCW holders were not widely publicized by the national news media? I'm betting almost NO ONE here has heard of the Appalachian School of Law shooting. It happened three years after Columbine and generated little news. Does no one believe that the national news media like CNN and MSNBC have their own agenda? They are profit making ventures! Read the Wiki page I posted about defensive incidents involving firearms and tell me how many of those you heard on the news.
In a theatre, do you want people shooting back and forth?
And you found three examples of it "working". You can probably find 10 more where it didn't "work"
If you are arguing that more guns is safer than less guns.. well, just leave it at that...
CCW holders are not brazen vigiliantes out to shoot first and ask questions later. They follow the four fundamental safety rules, the relevant one in this case being be sure of your target and what is in front of and behind it.
and priests are good people. Just because a person is a CCW holder does not make him a good person.
Texas man accidentally fires gun in Walmart, police say
Published July 24, 2012
FoxNews.com
A Texas man injured two people and himself after he accidentally fired his handgun Monday night while standing on line at a Walmart store, police said.
MyFoxDFW.com reported that the suspect, who was not identified, accidentally fired his gun while he reached into his wallet at the Dallas-area store. The bullet hit the man in the buttock and shattered on the ground. Fragments hit a child in the leg and a woman in the foot, the report said.
The suspect, who has a concealed handgun license, apparently panicked and took off running, but was soon caught by police.
He faces evasion charges and injury to a child.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
father: Peter lanza Tax Director and Vice President of taxes at GE general electric
mother: owned the three firearms for self defence, says the aunt
brother: CA at ernst & young
apparently the parents divorced a few years ago and Adam's brother and father hasn't seen him in two years. but i feel bad for the family, and what the lanza name is know associated with. i wonder how the father will be affected by this, being an exec at such a large firm
Adam Lanza had no known criminal record, a law enforcement official said.
A member of Lanza's family told investigators that he had a form of autism, according to a law enforcement official who spoke under condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the investigation.
Acquaintances struggled with fathoming the deadly actions being attributed to someone they had known.
Alex Israel was in the same class at Newtown High School with Adam Lanza, who lived a few houses down from her.
"You could definitely tell he was a genius," Israel told CNN, adding she hadn't talked with him since middle school. "He was really quiet, he kept to himself."
His former bus driver, Marsha Moskowitz, told CNN affiliate WABC that he was "a nice kid, very polite" like his brother.
"It's a shock to even know (the family)," she said. "You can't understand what happened."
A former classmate told CNN affiliate WCBS that Adam Lanza "was just a kid" -- not a troublemaker, not antisocial, not suggesting in any way that he could erupt like this.
"I don't know who would do anything like this," the classmate said, before walking away distraught. "This is unspeakable."
The gun control/ban issue will only further polarize opinions. Gun advocates will argue that someone with a burner could've stopped the kid. While on the other side, people will argue that if he didn't have access to weapons the damage wouldn't have been as destructive.
The real issue is why was an autistic kid allowed such easy access to 3 firearms and ammo? What were the parents thinking? Despite the divorce, the father should be held responsible.
I've been a strong proponent for the need to regulate having kids (through extensive licensing, parenting courses, education and income ability/potential).
Similarly, dogs' teeth are a deadly weapon, like a gun. Are we all supposed to file them down or take them all out? No, any responsible dog owner would spend the time and train the dog; and if an irresponsible owner lets an attack happen he/she is accountable. Parents should be held accountable.
Unleashing a human being into the world should be a carefully thought out process, you just can't fuck around have a bunch of kids and not teach them anything, (monitor them if they're unwell).
I've been a strong proponent for the need to regulate having kids (through extensive licensing, parenting courses, education and income ability/potential).
Forget banning guns just ban people.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
I don't mind seeing certain demographic groups be banned from reproducing. Crackheads, gangbangers, uneducated preteens, extreme religious fundamentalists, etc.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,651
Thanked 10,382 Times in 3,908 Posts
yeah and everyone who shouldn't be allowed to have kids should also wear a patch on their clothes or maybe have it noted on their drivers license so that people/govt./etc would know
yeah and everyone who shouldn't be allowed to have kids should also wear a patch on their clothes or maybe have it noted on their drivers license so that people/govt./etc would know
It's not about ostracizing a group of people, I'm saying it would be relevant to have a licensing, education and evaluation program for people who want to have kids.
Saw this in the paper.
Srs, if they can't even correctly spell the weapons with a simple Google, should they really be commenting at all on this? I can only imagine how much misinformation is in the whole article if they can't even bother to spell check.
"Ushmaster"
"Sigsauer"
Picture of Glock19, article says Glock17. Shooter used G19.
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,651
Thanked 10,382 Times in 3,908 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trollface
Saw this in the paper.
Srs, if they can't even correctly spell the weapons with a simple Google, should they really be comment at all on this? I can only imagine how much misinformation is in the whole article if they can't even bother to spell check.
I don't think prohibition has ever worked as it was intended to.
For example, if guns were banned outright, the people who follow the law would be turning them in. If you're used to robbing people or have plans to shoot up an elementary school, you're gonna disregard the rules. Then you're in a situation where the most dangerous members of society have access to killing machines while the rest of the people aren't able to defend themselves.
I know there are no-firearm zones such as elementary schools and even theaters like the one in the Colorado shooting. Maybe the solution in schools is having the principal or another willing teacher to go through firearm training, allowing one gun to be kept in a secure office in case of another shooting incident.
A good look at what's its like to parent someone with mental illness; a parent who's someday worried that she may be raising her own Dylan Klebold or Eric Harris but doesn't have the heart to send him to jail.
This article really focuses on the problem of dealing with mental illness rather than gun control.
In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”
“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”
“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn’t have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don’t know what’s wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He’s been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he’s in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He’s in a good mood most of the time. But when he’s not, watch out. And it’s impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district’s most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can’t function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, “Look, Mom, I’m really sorry. Can I have video games back today?”
“No way,” I told him. “You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly.”
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. “Then I’m going to kill myself,” he said. “I’m going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself.”
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
“Where are you taking me?” he said, suddenly worried. “Where are we going?”
“You know where we are going,” I replied.
“No! You can’t do that to me! You’re sending me to hell! You’re sending me straight to hell!”
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. “Call the police,” I said. “Hurry.”
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn’t escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I’m still stronger than he is, but I won’t be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—“Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have....”
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You’ll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, “I hate you. And I’m going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here.”
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I’ve heard those promises for years. I don’t believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, “What are your expectations for treatment?” I wrote, “I need help.”
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am Jason Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (A Guide to Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son’s social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. “If he’s back in the system, they’ll create a paper trail,” he said. “That’s the only way you’re ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you’ve got charges.”
I don’t believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael’s sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn’t deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (U.S.: Number of Mentally Ill in Prisons Quadrupled | Human Rights Watch)
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation’s largest treatment centers in 2011 (Nation's Jails Struggle With Mentally Ill Prisoners : NPR)
No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, “Something must be done.”
I agree that something must be done. It’s time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That’s the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
Just wanted to repost what Noir posted earlier in case it was missed. It's not long, and it's an excellent read.
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
Seeing the faces of those kids is sad, but I have no faith in the United States to do the right thing and take serious measures to control firearms. If an incident like this can't move people to do the right thing, then nothing will. Posted via RS Mobile