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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:32 PM   #76
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Are you so weak and insecure that you have to resort to calling names and swearing because someone disagrees with you? I Have worked as a server when i was in college, I get the principle behind it. I leave tip when I get good food or good service. You want to pay extra and perpetuate this rediculous system, feel free!
Are you so weak and insecure that you have to resort to crying and threatening to leave a discussion everyone time someone calls you something other than a kind little boy?

By the way, you inferring I am weak and insecure, is no different from me inferring you are a self entitled little bitch. While actually it is, because I am correct - but still, similar principles.

Oh, and now you leave a tip for good food/service? So you are in fact perpetuating the ridiculous system?? I am starting to get confused.

First, you never tip, because you are changing the world 3 dollars at a time. Now you tip when you get good service (which you are supposed to).

Can someone make a $3 BALLA picture that says at the bottom 'but only when the service/food is good' and put redlines name on it. That would be great.
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:51 PM   #77
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Define relatively low?

Because when you're charging me $15 more or less for a burger with a side of fries or salad, I highly doubt that your profit margins are low....

And that's just the general Earls, Keg, Red Robins type of restaurant who I personally consider, practically just a step up from your traditional fastfood chain in quality.
Highly doubt, or did you mean to say, do not have the remotest idea about expenses, food costs, profit margins, and revenues in the full-service food and beverage industry?

It is a pretty well known fact in the business world that running a restaurant is one of the most lucrative ventures with huge upside and almost zero downside. Banks are falling all over themselves to finance upstart restaurants because of their gross profit potential. In fact only 1 of 1000 restaurants fail in their first 5 years of operations.

*warning - some of the above may not be factual statements
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:33 PM   #78
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Oh great, another Internet tough guy
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:38 PM   #79
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Oh great, another Internet tough guy
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Old 02-04-2013, 08:41 PM   #80
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Ladies and Ladies, can we please perhaps keep in mind that principles expressed on the internet do not always translate (well, or otherwise) to real actions that take place in the real world. And that the opinions expressed in threads are simply that? Opinions?

As a former server/busser, I very much see the value in tips. It's how I paid my rent. As a consumer, I find it frustrating that the cost of labour goes up based on the value of the items I order. I order a cheap burger, cheap service. I order a baller steak, baller service. And yet the service is unchanged.



Is this a perfect world? No. So let's just agree to disagree, shall we?
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:44 PM   #81
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Oh great, another Internet tough guy
Another nowhere tough guy.

I must say tho, we have exchanged more than 2 responses each and you haven't yet soaked your keyboard with tears - a new record - congratulations.

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As a consumer, I find it frustrating that the cost of labour goes up based on the value of the items I order. I order a cheap burger, cheap service. I order a baller steak, baller service. And yet the service is unchanged.
I agree - but would a per item tipping structure be realistic to implement - doubt it. Often more expensive items do require a higher level of service/care from someone in the establishment anyhow.

When you order cheap beers (and get 15 poured and carried across the restaurant to your table - the % tipping doesn't seem too bad).

All that said - like every other business, restaurants should just fire shitty servers, and no tips should be given period. The cost should be reflected in the menu prices - customers can choose to eat where they like, people can choose where they work.

The system now, allows restaurant owners to point the finger at customers for being cheap bastards and ripping off their servers.

Many countries successfully operate food service without tips, and the service is often much better than here.

I wonder if any operators have tried it. Strict no tipping policies, and high wages. The tips built into the menu prices. I'd go there.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:23 PM   #82
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:18 AM   #83
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As a former server/busser, I very much see the value in tips. It's how I paid my rent.
And did you work a little harder, do a little extra, in hopes of getting a better tip? Because that's how it works in most of the rest of the working world: when you do a better job, you make more money (raises, promotions, bonuses, etc.). Do a shitty, half-assed job, and if you're lucky, you get stuck at your pay grade.. if not, you get "downsized".
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:14 AM   #84
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Define relatively low?
4%. At the end of the day, a 100 seat restaurant (that serves liquor as well)makes about 40k a week gross if they are a successful casual restaurant. 52 weeks, we are talking around 2 mil. 4% we are at 80k. Now think of the initial investment. 250k as a relatively reasonable number, + your first several months of shit sales and hiccups while trying to build a clientele base. Expect 3-4 years to pay back the initial investment, and then start taking your massive profit of 80k a year and shower yourself in ferraris with your new gold mine, and then find 300k more a year to pay your staff that 15%(ish) they get when people decide to stop tipping. Menu prices will just go up 15%, then the people that bitched about tipping will bitch about how expensive menu prices are. You can't please people that want to complain about something as simple as this, because that logic gets ignored. The only difference between tipping societies and non tipping societies like australia is how the money changes hands, not how much money changes hands.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:24 AM   #85
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in australia they dont tip, service sucks, prices are high and they nickel and dime you on everything like charging for ketchup.
In Japan they don't tip, service is great, prices are generally reasonable, and I never felt like I was being nickel and dime'd anywhere.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:18 AM   #86
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Somebodies been keeping tabs on Applebee's and writing it down.

Applebee’s Overnight Social Media Meltdown: A Photo Essay R.L. Stollar, Journalist.

TL;DR:
-Applebee's FB page gets MOBBED after the original incident.
-@2:53am someone from Applebee's starts to comment on the posts
-People bring up ANOTHER receipt that was posted by Applebee's itself
-This enrages people more
-Applebee's FB starts to ARGUE with some comments posted
-Tons of businesses, non-profit org's, families and individuals say they are going to boycott Applebees.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:27 AM   #87
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Even the Hulk is adding his 2-cents:

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Old 02-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #88
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signature looks legit...
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #89
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A little late to the party with this post, but oh well.

I used to think tipping was kinda silly. After all, why tip someone for doing a job they're already doing? If they did an exceptional job, then I had no problem with forking over a few extra dollars, but otherwise I was rather uncaring about whether I tipped. However, I got to thinking about it this way: How many of you get bonus's at your jobs? If we (collectively we) finish a job early, or meet a sales quota, or pull in x-amount of customers, we're often given said bonus for doing so. The way I see it is that servers receiving tips are basically getting a bonus for doing a job well done. If they do a piss poor job, they don't get a tip (bonus). But the better they do, the better a tip they receive. Most jobs offer this incentive, so I don't really see a problem with following it as a customer at a restaurant.

Just a thought.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:05 PM   #90
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The biggest problem is now the tip is just expected. If you don't tip you're just seen as a cheap fuck. I doubt the server even stops to think "hey maybe my service wasn't all that great for that customer" it's just a new Facebook status of "thanks a lot to the cheap asshole who didn't tip me".

That being said it usually takes pretty horrendous service for me to not tip.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:20 PM   #91
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Highly doubt, or did you mean to say, do not have the remotest idea about expenses, food costs, profit margins, and revenues in the full-service food and beverage industry?

It is a pretty well known fact in the business world that running a restaurant is one of the most lucrative ventures with huge upside and almost zero downside. Banks are falling all over themselves to finance upstart restaurants because of their gross profit potential. In fact only 1 of 1000 restaurants fail in their first 5 years of operations.

*warning - some of the above may not be factual statements


*sigh

It's the same argument everytime this topic comes up.




You and other waiters, shouldn't kid yourselves. The food & service industry does not even in the slightest hinge on the extra income provided by the culture of tipping. Should tipping be abolished, I have no doubt that, that will be the swan song of all (or most) restaurants.


So don't even kid yourselves about arguments of profit margins or what other buzz words you have under your sleeves because when the argument of "increasing the minimum wage standards" comes about (and it always does)... for some reason people employed at or near entry level positions suddenly have no qualms about gouging a little bit more money from the so called.. ."profit margins"



At the end, you're not fooling anyone. You don't promote the culture and tradition of tipping because the industry hinges on it. You promote it because at the end of the day, it just lines your pocket more. Just like how you would probably promote another increase in "minimum wage standards."
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:40 PM   #92
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Out of curiosity, those mandatory 18% auto gratuity when you guys are in a big group, is that legal?

I don't understand why there's the auto gratuity just for a big group of people, isn't serving a table of 10 the same as serving 2 tables of 5?

Sometimes i feel like when there's a big group and there's auto gratuity the service is subpar since they know they will get the 18% already.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:51 PM   #93
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Out of curiosity, those mandatory 18% auto gratuity when you guys are in a big group, is that legal?

I don't understand why there's the auto gratuity just for a big group of people, isn't serving a table of 10 the same as serving 2 tables of 5?

Sometimes i feel like when there's a big group and there's auto gratuity the service is subpar since they know they will get the 18% already.
They are allowed to put it in as on as there is a notice on the menu saying 'for groups of over X people, an automatic gratuity of Y% is added', but they must remove it from your bill if you insist.

The idea behind it is to make sure that everyone in the group does actually chip in; very often people in a large group will throw in their money (or even a little less) thinking "It's ok, I'm sure someone else overpaid a little so it'll all balance out."


A former classmate of mine used to work at The Keg, I'm not sure which location. One day he got called in to work a large table...I think they were Dutch or somesuch. The Keg used to (I don't know if they still do) pay out tips to bussers and the kitchen based on the table's bill not on the tip left behind. The idea being that the servers wouldn't be able to cheat the other staff by hiding/under-reporting their tips. Unfortunately, however, wherever were from it was a nation which doesn't acknowledge the need for tips. And so when he paid out for his huge table and after they had left on his short shift...he was in the red for the day.

Very unfortunate.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:31 PM   #94
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The biggest problem is now the tip is just expected. If you don't tip you're just seen as a cheap fuck. I doubt the server even stops to think "hey maybe my service wasn't all that great for that customer" it's just a new Facebook status of "thanks a lot to the cheap asshole who didn't tip me".

That being said it usually takes pretty horrendous service for me to not tip.
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This.

I had a server spill a drink on me and at the end they charged me twice for the drink and had the nerve to ask for a tip!
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:02 PM   #95
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^Hahaha!

That's pretty terrible lol
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:10 PM   #96
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^^ what did u end up doing..

thats pretty brutal

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:48 PM   #97
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:29 AM   #98
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*sigh

It's the same argument everytime this topic comes up.

You and other waiters, shouldn't kid yourselves. The food & service industry does not even in the slightest hinge on the extra income provided by the culture of tipping. Should tipping be abolished, I have no doubt that, that will be the swan song of all (or most) restaurants.

So don't even kid yourselves about arguments of profit margins or what other buzz words you have under your sleeves because when the argument of "increasing the minimum wage standards" comes about (and it always does)... for some reason people employed at or near entry level positions suddenly have no qualms about gouging a little bit more money from the so called.. ."profit margins"
Hey asshole...its bad enough you know absolutely fuck all about business. Its worse that you can't read.

IF WE ABOLISHED TIPPING - FOOD PRICES WOULD GO UP - END - OF - STORY.

How hard is that to understand? If restaurants were making a killing on their $15 dollar burgers as you assume, with clearly all the cumulative business acumen of a pencil eraser, people would sell equally good $12 burgers, and put them all out of business.

Here are a couple of links for you...
Cost of Living in Australia. Prices in Australia.
Cost of Living in Canada. Prices in Canada.

In case you don't care to read, prices in both countries are typically similar, but there is a significant difference (well over 15% in fact ) in dining out prices.

Having been to both countries, I can tell you the prices at restaurants are higher in Australia, and the service is worse than Canada.

Anyhow, I am all for higher food prices and no tips. In fact I would welcome it with open arms if it were ever introduced.

Unfortunately, I am not living in Canada at the moment, and my Intra-company transferee Visa was not sponsored under the waiter category, so this whole topic is not very relevant to my daily life. Sorry to disappoint.

If we are ever looking for a door knob who makes sweeping generalizations about business's balance sheets based on the front end consumer price, taking absolutely nothing else into consideration, I will be sure to let you know.

Cheers.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:29 AM   #99
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For me, its simple.

I tip for good service and don't for bad service. I also don't limit my tipping to the food industry.

-I tip the dude that removes junk
-I tip the lady that does my laundry
-I tip the people that clean the carpets
-I tip the plumber
-I tip the kid who washes my truck
-I tip the hairdresser, nail technician, and the people at the spa I go to.

What pisses me off is that people in the restaurant industry EXPECT tips...other service-based industries don't.

If you do a good job or go above what is typical....here is a little bonus. If you don't, why should I reward mediocrity?

Last week Gridlock and I went out to a new Mexican food restaurant. Place was dead yet the service was horrendous! took well over 30 mins to get Gridlock's food....mine wasn't brought until 10 mins later....and, we ordered the simplest meals: tacos. I sat and watched our waitress sit at the bar and play on her iPhone and re-do her hair and make-up in the mirror.

We didn't leave a tip. Simple as that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:33 AM   #100
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On tipping: I fundamentally disagree with every article that discusses tipping, and some "expert" they interviewed on manners and etiquette always says, "even with bad service, you should still tip 10%"

Not a chance. I'll tip for good service, I'll tip for great service...hell I'll tip for mediocre service...but no chance will I tip for bad service.

Someone above asked why there should be a auto grat for parties of 8 or more. Thinking about bad service reminded me of some of the worst service I ever had, when we actually tipped 2 cents.

We went to a restaurant in Abbotsford to celebrate some family thing with me, my mom, my sister, her husband and their 3 or 4 yr old at that time.

We sat down a few minutes after a large party of like 20 people. So the entire house takes their order. Someone drifts over and takes our order.

Well, my nephew was hungry. And sometimes, children...the angels they are, like to inform you-over and over and over.

Obviously, our food wasn't going to get touched until the big table was plated. We asked, "can you please just drop the kids chicken strips and fries? We have no problem waiting, but for the love of our evening, can you please shut the kid up for us...and coincidentally, your big table."

And no.

I worked in restaurants and know that this kind of thing is a piss off. Got it. However, I also worked in restaurants and know that this is a daily thing.

Food finally comes and it tastes shitty. Was sitting on a heat lamp.

So I hope the large table was auto-gratuity'd something large, because you need to make up for the fact that the rest of the restaurant was going to shit to make the large table happen.

In the situation, I totally understand that they were slammed, but forgetting the rest of the restaurant was not the way to handle it.
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