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Old 04-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #51
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I say F the Liberals, they implemented it and then took it back. Stick to your guns, idiot Christy Clark thought she could win back support by letting it go to a vote. She's going to lose by 10 pts in the election and we're going to have dark days in our Province with a NDP government.

The migration of people to other provinces will continue and our economy will tank. Here's an image that shows a scary trend (from vreaa).
That graph by itself means nothing. What were the major trends during those peak times?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:56 AM   #52
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^expo 86.......... I blame everything on Expo 86. It was great, don't get me wrong, but it woke up the rest of the world to the best kept secret in NA. Upward trend for the next ten years. Then Vancouver changed. Now it's too damn expensive and no longer the quiet city nestled in the mountains and water.........

FU, Expo Ernie!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:57 AM   #53
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I say F the Liberals, they implemented it and then took it back. Stick to your guns, idiot Christy Clark thought she could win back support by letting it go to a vote. She's going to lose by 10 pts in the election and we're going to have dark days in our Province with a NDP government.

The migration of people to other provinces will continue and our economy will tank. Here's an image that shows a scary trend (from vreaa).
As someone who grew up in NS, all I ever heard was "go to BC, go to BC"

Where are they moving? BC.

I never really even thought about it myself until my sister and her husband were like, "we're moving....to BC"

Then my Mom was like, "this sucks. I'm moving...to BC"

Then I was the only family member IN NS. I had come out for the xmas before my Mom moved out. Wore a full on winter parka to go to the airport on Dec. 16, with my face frozen and snow blowing across the tarmac. Got off the plane in spring like conditions, with green grass and a light rain. I was sold.

But I don't think anyone is claiming BC is the place to go anymore. It's on the list, but the flights all stop in Alberta now.

Those are the flights from within Canada. Across the ocean is a different story.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:13 AM   #54
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Alberta isn't a field of roses either, they are operating with a 2B deficit or something like that this year and having to borrow 4B to cover costs.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:26 AM   #55
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Alberta isn't a field of roses either, they are operating with a 2B deficit or something like that this year and having to borrow 4B to cover costs.
Oh fucking Alberta. They are turning into the next Quebec.

Alberta used to be the shit province. I'm talking economically. In the crapper. They were primarily agricultural producers, and ranchers and the market dropped out of it, and they were hooped.

Then, oil was found. Then, the price of oil hit a point where it was feasible to extract.

Suddenly, Alberta is on top! We've forgotten all about the shit times, and now think they are the big swinging dicks!

Right now, yeah, they can't budget their books at all. Not even close. I think you may see a PST in Alberta. It solves a lot of their problems, the primary one being the ebb and flow of resource based revenues. It's a nice static income flow that can be counted on. Their provincial tax rates are a bit lower than ours if I remember correctly...so they aren't exposed to a lot of income generating streams.

Oil money isn't always great for the governmental body of the area. I remember reading about Mid East dictatorships being successful because the population is apathetic to government because they aren't directly paying for governments operation. So when the leader who has been in office for 30 years has trillions in holdings, they don't see that as 'their' money.

I think Norway is still the only one that has truly executed an oil economy correctly.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #56
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Alberta isn't a field of roses either, they are operating with a 2B deficit or something like that this year and having to borrow 4B to cover costs.
They're probably catching up on infrastructure spending due to all of the migration over the past 15 years.

It's a gold mine for unskilled workers, particularly in Atlantic Canada, who have no job prospects back home and can make 70K driving a truck. The energy economy also leads to economic spinoffs and drives wages in other industries. It's a pretty well known fact that companies in BC pay 10-20% less than their counterparts in other parts of the country.

Lifestyle is a huge draw, but eventually, the province is going to reach its breaking point. Talented people are going to start leaving and what's left will be mediocre workers who will accept shitty wages. I think about leaving all of the time.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:02 PM   #57
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They're probably catching up on infrastructure spending due to all of the migration over the past 15 years.
That's exactly what it is, a large part of it anyways.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:03 PM   #58
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My Starbucks was ten cents cheaper today. Meh. I look forward to income tax increases in the coming years.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:18 PM   #59
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I know that the HST is emotional and divisive. But can someone point me to a resource that spells out the advantages of keeping the HST vs getting rid of it? (or lowering it to 10%)
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:29 PM   #60
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Alberta isn't a field of roses either
But, they claim to be Wild Rose Country......... says so right on their license plates.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #61
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Hey, my Ikea breakfast this morning cost me $1.05!!!!!!

And no tax on my coffee, LOL.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:20 PM   #62
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Heard on CKNW on the way that the taxi industry celebrated the removal of HST (and requisite fare savings for customers) by applying a 5% rate increase as of March 31st.

What a glorious way to pass on this new-found savings to consumers!

I wonder how many restaurant menus were 'enhanced with new menu items' as of the 31st as well.

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Old 04-01-2013, 09:55 PM   #63
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Well its no surprise. GST+PST costs businesses more operationally than HST, and guess what, business aren't going to suck up the cost.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:16 AM   #64
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That graph by itself means nothing. What were the major trends during those peak times?
If you look at the negative years, that was when housing took a big hit. It looks like history is going to be repeating itself.

I just saw on the news that Adrian Dix said that today is a good day for BC with the HST gone. If he thinks that, he's definitely not getting my vote. The only thing he probably knows is to spend money and BC is going to be worse for it.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:18 AM   #65
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perhaps you should read what Dix said instead of reading into it... he clearly notes that people hated the way it was implemented and the whole fiasco of the hst ended up costing taxpayers money instead of saving them money which is exactly what happened... if you wanted to read into it it seems more like he was pandering to the majority who wanted the hst gone for various reasons and not that he was saying no hst is good fiscal policy


as for if spending money is all he knows how to do... spending money isn't exactly bad... especially if it pays off in the future
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:51 AM   #66
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Alberta isn't a field of roses either, they are operating with a 2B deficit or something like that this year and having to borrow 4B to cover costs.
Unfortunately, it was actually worse than that.

I saved the clipping from the Globe and Mail a few months ago and the 2012-13 deficit for Alberta was 3.5-4 billion.

For comparison only, BC was in the hole 1.23 billion and Ontario's deficit at a whooping 11.9 billion.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:57 AM   #67
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I think Norway is still the only one that has truly executed an oil economy correctly.
Alberta really over-spent their oil money and failed to budget for fluctuations in oil pricing. Norway puts surplus income from petroluem into a separate income fund (Government Pension Fund) and actually invests that money into the market.

BBC News - Norway oil wealth fund made big gains in 2012
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:56 AM   #68
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why everyone getting upset? there is a beautifull place called bellingham, which will allieviate all your worries.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:19 AM   #69
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why everyone getting upset? there is a beautifull place called bellingham, which will allieviate all your worries.
Because not everyone lives a 10 minute drive away from the border.

And some, maybe some, actually want to keep some of their money in the province?
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:21 PM   #70
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Everyone should check their receipts carefully. Some establishments (especially smaller places) have not updated their systems yet.

Went to a pub to watch the Canucks game last night with some coworkers and they charged both GST and PST, as well as the 10% liquor tax. The server was surprised. Seemed like no one else noticed it all day. Too bad for them they were serving a group of accountants. haha
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:55 PM   #71
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Spent 120 bucks on dinner and paid 5 bucks tax. Ha.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:53 PM   #72
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why everyone getting upset? there is a beautifull place called bellingham, which will allieviate all your worries.
Cause tax on cars is still the same.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:02 PM   #73
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Wtf are u on about

Canadians saying eh is a verbal trait, it's not a written trait, that's why it bothers me, as there is no logic to it
Fucking "YOU", not "U". Before you bitch about someone else's writing style, try making sense with your own. OMGWTFBBQROFLMFAO.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #74
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Well its no surprise. GST+PST costs businesses more operationally than HST, and guess what, business aren't going to suck up the cost.
Bingo UFO and exactly my point.

I may be coming across as harping on the restaurant industry and that's not my intent. I have a lot of respect for the people who make a go in this industry, it's a tough one to make any money given the saturation we have in Vancouver.

So, I'm not a brain surgeon here with economics, but around the same time HST was brought in, I'm pretty sure the .05 DUI rule was brought in too, and that instantly changed behaviour for drinking at the restaurants. Would this perhaps be a reason revenues may have dropped, as people cut back on their overpriced $7 beers? Second, the industry by its nature is consumer discretionary and I think given economics in BC over the last few years, it should be no surprise that people have cut back on their restaurant meals and increased their shopping at the super-markets.

It bugs me hearing and reading stuff in the news how HST took $1.5B away from the industry.. I disagree with that assertion, because if anything - HST should have made it easier for restauranteurs to operate.. 1 tax return instead of two, and lower prices from their suppliers. My personal opinion is that restaurants were forced to jack up the prices of food in order to stay in business given the loss of alcohol related high margins, and they used the implementation of HST as a mask to why they actually repriced all their menus. This overall increase in a regular meal is what drove away customers.

Was there a % of people who stopped eating out given they couldn't stomach an extra 7% on their bill? Surely there is, but I doubt it's as high as people think.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #75
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Bingo UFO and exactly my point.

I may be coming across as harping on the restaurant industry and that's not my intent. I have a lot of respect for the people who make a go in this industry, it's a tough one to make any money given the saturation we have in Vancouver.

So, I'm not a brain surgeon here with economics, but around the same time HST was brought in, I'm pretty sure the .05 DUI rule was brought in too, and that instantly changed behaviour for drinking at the restaurants. Would this perhaps be a reason revenues may have dropped, as people cut back on their overpriced $7 beers? Second, the industry by its nature is consumer discretionary and I think given economics in BC over the last few years, it should be no surprise that people have cut back on their restaurant meals and increased their shopping at the super-markets.

It bugs me hearing and reading stuff in the news how HST took $1.5B away from the industry.. I disagree with that assertion, because if anything - HST should have made it easier for restauranteurs to operate.. 1 tax return instead of two, and lower prices from their suppliers. My personal opinion is that restaurants were forced to jack up the prices of food in order to stay in business given the loss of alcohol related high margins, and they used the implementation of HST as a mask to why they actually repriced all their menus. This overall increase in a regular meal is what drove away customers.

Was there a % of people who stopped eating out given they couldn't stomach an extra 7% on their bill? Surely there is, but I doubt it's as high as people think.
Quoted for fucking truth.

You know, in the months leading up to the HST, I regularly heard restaurant owners and operators, as well as assorted industry spokesmen, getting on the radio and talking doom and gloom about how it would cost people more to eat out and more people would just stay home, and guess what? Self-fulfilling prophecy.

These idiots were the authors of their own demise. Think about it: restaurants regularly raise their prices from time to time, to cover increases in various operating expenses... and do people stay away in droves? No. Why? because 99.9% of them never notice when the price of a burger and fries goes up by 45 cents.

Sure, you look at a Boston Pizza menu from 10 years ago, and one from today, and I bet prices have almost doubled, but I defy you to pinpoint when that happened. Unless you go to the same place every week and order exactly the same thing every time, you're never going to notice when there's a small (say, 7%) increase. Individual pizza this week, Stomboli with Caesar salad next week, appie platter with the team the week after that... who keeps track of the price of that shit? Not any of the customers; a month later, nobody will realize that their Caesar costs a little more because the price of lettuce went up after a bad crop.

So now you go on the air twice a week bleating about how much more expensive things are going to be, and guess what? People will think, "Oh shit, it's gonna break the bank if I go out to eat! I won't be able to pay the mortgage! There's no way I could order the $12 sirloin instead of the $30 New York, I'd better just eat at home!"

Or the industry mouthpieces could have just shut the fuck up, people would have gone out to eat, and probably never noticed the difference, and all would be status quo.

So yeah, I have zero sympathy for the Restaurant Industry in this. Instead of waiting for the government gun to start firing blanks, they grabbed it away, loaded it with hollow points, and shot themselves squarely in the collective foot.

Eateries want sympathy? They can find it in the dictionary, between 'shit' and 'syphilis'.

Edit: oh yeah, for the last year or so, I've heard a number of restaurant folks on the radio saying hey, it really wasn't as bad as we thought, and in fact, there ARE some benefits to it! Imagine that! And yes, I've heard several agree that the DUI laws were a much bigger hit on their business.
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