REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Jmac · 10-17-2013, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuff99

The guy that made the mistake in trading Grabner, Coho, Schneider and a first round with Grabner is still our GM, so yeah, it's an issue. That's four first rounders. Three proven assets.

What did we get instead? Kassian, a working project, Booth a salary cap weight (Imagine we had $4.2M this summer to shop for UFAs), a buy out in Ballard, Higgins extension and Richardson as our third line centre.

Thank you, Captain Hindsight.

Grabner got waived by Florida after we traded him. We traded him because he lacked work ethic; he had poor camp after poor camp after poor camp. We would have waived him, too. Grabner was a working project and Ballard was a proven asset at the time. Maybe you should've given MG your crystal ball.

We wouldn't have had Booth's $4.25M to spend this summer as it would've went to Hodgson, unless you think Hodgson would be playing here for less than $1M.

If you weren't aware, Ballard, Kassian, and Horvat were all first round picks, not that draft position is relevant in any way. What's your point? 3 first round picks for four? If we traded three first round picks for some garbage 2nd rounder like Shea Weber you'd probably be pretty pissed, eh?

Should we have allowed Higgins to walk as a free agent? Who would we have instead of Higgins?

Richardson replaced Lapierre. Schroeder is our 3rd line center.

stuff99 · 10-17-2013, 08:55 AM

I don't think anyone gave up on Grabner around here except AV, much like Cody Hodgson.

For a team that doesn't have secondary scoring we sure liked to trade away young, cheap offensive players. Granted I wasn't take big of a critic of the Grabner trade unlike some of my friends, the loss was more magnified by the trade of Cody Hodgson.

And please, yes Florida waived Grabner but are you really to use Florida as a barometer and judgement of talent?

Canucks were built to win at the time of the Cody Hodgson trade and Malholtra was still a question mark with his injury. CoHo was a way more proven player than Kassian at the time, and if you were to trade him, to prove for an even bigger project if you are trying to win again. Don't tell me that AV's role in how he limits offensive creativity, especially with young players did not factor into both those trades.

"Grabner got waived by Florida after we traded him. We traded him because he lacked work ethic; he had poor camp after poor camp after poor camp." and yet we defend Kassian and give him the "it's too early to tell label"

Were you not shocked that ALL we got is Bo Horvat for Cory Schneider? The time to have traded Cory was the start of last season to maximize assets in return. The club wanted to trade Luongo, which was fine but we all knew how MG mismanaged that.

Lot of scenerios involved, but yes, we would NOT have had Booth's $4.2M this summer if we kept Cody Hodgson which is fine by me....so what's your point?

Does Higgins deserve a four year extension? He's not going anywhere. He doesnt add or take away to your team but he's also on our 2nd line now.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20 but my vision is pretty clear right now too and basically MG single handily dismantled what would've made our team competitive for years to come trying to build a 'tougher' team after the Boston criticisms.

Jmac · 10-17-2013, 09:08 AM

I wasn't aware that Hodgson would've single-handedly won 3 more games for us against the Kings and 4 more games for us against the Sharks.

stuff99 · 10-17-2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmac

I wasn't aware that Hodgson would've single-handedly won 3 more games for us against the Kings and 4 more games for us against the Sharks.

Jeez. It's about balancing your line up. Adding more offence would certainly help right?

RiceIntegraRS · 10-17-2013, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I've said all along grabner would have never been an impact player with the nucks.
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I say he would of been. But not under AV.

I was devestated when I saw Grabner traded but I know why it was done so we could soliidfy our defence. I was even more devestated when Coho was traded cause we got a player that wasn't even ready yet. Now we traded Schneider for a guy that maybe ready in 2-3 years and he's a coin flip.....

MG is thinking about the future of this team and is building the team to compete to be the bridesmaid to this wedding, not the bride.
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Expresso · 10-17-2013, 10:00 AM

lol you can't say Florida is run by a bunch of idiots. Grabner would never have worked in Vancouver. He didn't wake up and commit himself until he got dropped by two teams and Islanders threw him a bone.

Not really racist! · 10-17-2013, 10:01 AM

Jmac · 10-17-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuff99

Jeez. It's about balancing your line up. Adding more offence would certainly help right?

He replaced Mitchell and Salo with Hamhuis, Ballard, and Garrison. Did that not make our team better and add offense from the back end? Do a couple of prime-aged dmen not make our team better for years to come relative to injury-prone players in their late-30s?

It seems like you just want to concentrate on everything negative.

MG has made mistakes, though many of them didn't look like they would be mistakes at the time. He has also done a lot of good things for this franchise as well.

SumAznGuy · 10-17-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HachiSix

lol you can't say Florida is run by a bunch of idiots. Grabner would never have worked in Vancouver. He didn't wake up and commit himself until he got dropped by two teams and Islanders threw him a bone.

I still don't buy this. The biggest reason Grabner is succeeding in NYI is because of who he is playing with and no longer playing for AV.
Had the Canucks kept him, he'd be on the second or third line. Grabner is not a play maker, and he would not work well playing with Kesler and Higgins or Kesler and Burrows.
On the third line, it might work out with him and Schroeder with Hansen but no way would he be producing as he is now when playing with Taveres.

Look at Chris Kunitz. Look at his numbers before and after playing on the same line with Crosby.

Taylor Pyatt and Steve Bernier are pretty much the only players who couldn't produce when playing with the twins.

SumAznGuy · 10-17-2013, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmac

MG has made mistakes, though many of them didn't look like they would be mistakes at the time. He has also done a lot of good things for this franchise as well.

I don't agree with this.
As Burke puts it, the cupboards are bare with not a lot to look forward to in a few years when the twin's start to slow down.
Many people can make fun of Toronto, but Burke has done a lot to help the Maple Leafs. His biggest mistake was giving Wilson the extension instead of firing him. Nonis hasn't made too many big deals as most of the current players is what he inherited from Burke.

highfive · 10-17-2013, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuff99

The guy that made the mistake in trading Grabner, Coho, Schneider and a first round with Grabner is still our GM, so yeah, it's an issue. That's four first rounders. Three proven assets.

What did we get instead? Kassian, a working project, Booth a salary cap weight (Imagine we had $4.2M this summer to shop for UFAs), a buy out in Ballard, Higgins extension and Richardson as our third line centre.

At that time Grabner couldn't crack our line up. (He couldn't even do it in Florida). (I think it's unfair to say he's a proven asset) We traded for certainty at that time and that was Ballard. Signing Hamhuis in the summer made the trade much worse.

Coho / Schneider - Although I think it's too early to judge these two trades at the moment. My only critique of Gillis was why didn't he wait and see what offers were available? It seems like he didn't wait as patiently as he did with trading Luongo...

RiceIntegraRS · 10-17-2013, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfive

At that time Grabner couldn't crack our line up. (He couldn't even do it in Florida). (I think it's unfair to say he's a proven asset) We traded for certainty at that time and that was Ballard....

I don't know what u remember but Grabner did crack our lineup. Then he got Injured and when came back he was always on the team. Only reason we traded for Ballard causee we didn't know if we could resign Mitchelll, not cause Grabner wasn't good enough to make this team
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stuff99 · 10-17-2013, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

I still don't buy this. The biggest reason Grabner is succeeding in NYI is because of who he is playing with and no longer playing for AV.
Had the Canucks kept him, he'd be on the second or third line. Grabner is not a play maker, and he would not work well playing with Kesler and Higgins or Kesler and Burrows.
On the third line, it might work out with him and Schroeder with Hansen but no way would he be producing as he is now when playing with Taveres.

Look at Chris Kunitz. Look at his numbers before and after playing on the same line with Crosby.

Taylor Pyatt and Steve Bernier are pretty much the only players who couldn't produce when playing with the twins.

The Grabner Kesler Raymond line was actually pretty productive.

stuff99 · 10-17-2013, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfive

At that time Grabner couldn't crack our line up. (He couldn't even do it in Florida). (I think it's unfair to say he's a proven asset) We traded for certainty at that time and that was Ballard. Signing Hamhuis in the summer made the trade much worse.

Coho / Schneider - Although I think it's too early to judge these two trades at the moment. My only critique of Gillis was why didn't he wait and see what offers were available? It seems like he didn't wait as patiently as he did with trading Luongo...

I guess my point about the Coho trade as well was why do people keep saying it's too early to judge this trade when we are trying to win now. How long does Kassian have before he could do something?

I mean all the criticisms I see of Grabner can be applied to kassian as well no?

stuff99 · 10-17-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmac

He replaced Mitchell and Salo with Hamhuis, Ballard, and Garrison. Did that not make our team better and add offense from the back end? Do a couple of prime-aged dmen not make our team better for years to come relative to injury-prone players in their late-30s?

It seems like you just want to concentrate on everything negative.

MG has made mistakes, though many of them didn't look like they would be mistakes at the time. He has also done a lot of good things for this franchise as well.

I think he made a lot of mistakes post cup run to change playing styles. I was fine with the Ballard Grabner trade at the time as I pointed out but Grabner's loss was softened by having Raymond and Cody Hodgson. CoHo being traded magnified the fact that we do not have another group of secondary and young scorers.

Garrison replacing Salo came after the cup run.

pastarocket · 10-17-2013, 11:25 AM

MG's hiring of Torts is also based on the fact that Torts has a good track record of developing young players. Case in point, Ryan Callahan and Del Zotto of the Rangers.

That being said, I think the timeline for Kassian to become a legit power forward, that scores goals and hurts teams with his physicality is more than just one season.

My guess is that it's gonna take Torts at least two seasons, if not longer, to develop Kassian to hit his potential.

It's also up to Kass to decide how good a player he wants to be. Stop partying in the clubs and take your NHL career more seriously!

Does Kassian have CoHo's natural offensive talent? Hell no. That's why he needs to work even harder to develop his game.

Like some people say on this thread, Kassian is a piece of work. A long term piece of work.

spoon.ek9 · 10-17-2013, 12:07 PM

IIRC, Mitchell wanted to sign with us but MG never gave him an offer after his concussion.

pastarocket · 10-17-2013, 12:36 PM

-appears that Oilers' chance of getting Ryan Miller are quite slim. TSN's Pierre LeBrun mentions that Edmonton is one of eight team's on Miller's "no-trade" list in terms of teams which he would not waive his NTC to move to another team.

LeBrun: Oilers among eight teams on Miller's no-trade list

Hondaracer · 10-17-2013, 12:42 PM

Coilers have their hands tied, whoever they choose to deal with has all the power
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Bouncing Bettys · 10-17-2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Coilers have their hands tied, whoever they choose to deal with has all the power
Posted via RS Mobile

Luuuu to Oilers!

SumAznGuy · 10-17-2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

IIRC, Mitchell wanted to sign with us but MG never gave him an offer after his concussion.

No. Gillis offered him a 1 year deal because of his concussion.
LA offered him a 2 year deal.

RiceIntegraRS · 10-17-2013, 02:03 PM

anyone remember the real story? cause I remember mitchell not being cleared to play yet or not knowing if he was gonna return that season and MG didn't wanna miss out on the Free agent fenzy by waiting for Mitchell so he decided to sign hamhuis and trade for ballard....
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akalic · 10-17-2013, 02:07 PM

what do you guys think about the sedin's split up?

TPMarko · 10-17-2013, 02:09 PM

good move. gives the canucks a different look and harder to shut down both sedin lines at the same time.

dbaz · 10-17-2013, 02:25 PM

lol at hank interview on tsn. says its nice to have daily meetings, and to be told what they are doing right and what they need to improve on. kinda sounds like av didnt even bother with that.