Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302181)

The numbers I quoted are all based on known facts and info that Translink has released themselves:

Originally Posted by K-Dub (Post 8302183)

Who in their right mind would continue their day by day transit, each time paying the double fare? Then the real idiocy here is the user, not the provider.

Originally Posted by bobbinka (Post 8302192)

That's $6M of revenue and revenue alone. You have not and CANNOT account for the costs that would be associated with buying, implementing, and maintaining the system. Revenue is nothing if the costs exceed it, costs that neither you or I have the actual numbers for. So let's stop pretending we know what they are.

Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302068)

Tapioca, please realize that laypersons do not necessarily mean they are stupid people. Just because they are not experts in the field doesn't mean they have no idea of how things work on a broad scale.

With 6000 cash paying riders a day and 46 Skytrain and Canada Line stations around, that's an average of 130 transactions per station per day. It is perfectly adequate to have a single ticket conversion machine at each skytrain / Canada Line station to look after their needs.

So let's say Translink wants to engineer that machine from scratch. And let's assume an engineer capable of working on this project makes $150k/yr. And let's say we'll need a team of 10 such engineers. Based on my own experience in the technology field, a project like this shouldn't take more than 6 months to complete. So let's say we give them 9 months to pull this one through.

Salary-wise, that's $150k x 10 engineers x 9 months = $1.125M

I think I am being generous with my above estimates. None of the technology required is new or novel, so there should be no R&D involved. It is just a matter of sitting down to come up with a design, do a bunch of testing, and then you are ready to deploy.

So now, lemme ask you this -- does it cost $8M to manufacture and install 46 machines along the Skytrain and Canada Line stations?

If this is not incompetence on Translink's part, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Razor Ramon HG (Post 8300431)

EDIT: Misleading title.. read through the article, and it's the same in Korea. If you pay with cash, the box doesn't print out a ticket. No one seems to care.. then again, everyone uses a transit card here.

Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302203)

It's good to see you acknowledging that there is potentially a $6M extra revenue at stake for Translink. With that particular estimate established, the discussion should then be focused on whether it is right for Translink to do nothing and reap in that extra revenue by double charging people. Judging by the posts here, some such as K-Dub will think that these people should pay for their own idiocy. Others such as myself will think this is not the right thing to do. And that is precisely what we have been doing all along in this thread.

Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302165)

I don't know what the benefit is with paying cash in this case. But apparently, some people (6000 of them a day) prefer to continue using cash even if there is a monetary incentive to not do so.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8302253)

Incorrect, Translink has not stated this point. You're demonstrating your lack of understanding, here.

At present, an average of six thousand people pay cash to purchase a fare on a bus and transfer onto the Skytrain. The alternative options to a cash fare are faresaver tickets or a monthly pass, the former less convenient and the later impractical for occasional users. Therefore, it is appropriate to expect the average of six thousand people who pay cash to purchase a fare on a bus and transfer onto the Skytrain to decline as a proportion will adopt the convenient Compass Card. My hypothesis is supportable through the example of other cities that have adopted similar programs, as they've seen high electronic pass adoption rates among users.

As a result, your arguments which include the six thousand people premise are invalid. The six thousand people may well drop to one thousand people, we don't know.

Originally Posted by nabs (Post 8301146)

I hope its as simple as scan and walk, and works that fast. That's how the system is in MTL, TO and NYC and it works really well and fast. However they use turnstiles and not gates.. too many moving parts = more parts to fix when it breaks down

Originally Posted by Razor Ramon HG (Post 8301183)

Just curious.. but for who that are complaining, have they ever even used another transit system with a pass? Everything is being blown out of proportion.

I'm just curious if they'll make an NFC app.

Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302287)

MindBomber,

It isn't my lack of understanding that I am demonstrating here. Rather, it is a lack of read comprehension that you have displayed. In my original post, I have clearly indicated that a sizable portion will switch to the Compass card.

How small this cash-paying group will shrink to is anybody's guess. Initially, this group will probably only shrink a bit. Over time, it will continue to decline until it hits a plateau. There will always be people preferring or finding themselves the need to pay cash instead of using the Compass card.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8302313)

I stand corrected, thank you.

I have not displayed lacking reading comprehension, though. I interpreted the quoted post entirely accurately, and simply did not read the linked post. I haven't the time to read over all two-hundred posts on a nearly negligible percentage of transit transfers.

Originally Posted by Traum (Post 8302171)

Don't call it a conspiracy, Grid. Just look at the numbers yourself and come to your own conclusion.

Originally Posted by StylinRed (Post 8300713)

Seems like Translink is just listening to us drivers finally start gouging those who use the transportation services and give us drivers some slack

well now lets hope we drivers are given a break from more taxes to pay for bus/train services :/

Originally Posted by Soundy (Post 8300809)

How so? Because the machines at SkyTrain stations can't read paper transfers? So what should they have done, spend a shitload of extra money to add that capability for something that's going to be phased out eventually anyway?

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp (Post 8302159)

Another option of installing machines at SkyTrain stations that would take old paper transfers and exchange them for a Compass-compatible card would have cost at least $9 million, Zabel added.

Originally Posted by DragonChi (Post 8300969)

WTF, implementing compass to stop fare evaders? what a bullshit reason. I'm sure fare evaders will still find a way to get past the gates. it's not that hard to jump the gates.

Originally Posted by DragonChi (Post 8301050)

We'll see how it works out in time. Even if you drive, I wouldn't be surprised if all the bridges were tolled in 10 years. LOL. Vancouver, what a great city, all of the first world problems to be had.

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 8302612)

Don't worry, they are just taking a break from gouging drivers. It will be back in no time



One thing to note is that current Skytrain fare stations can already read the paper transfers with mag stripe. You can upgrade from a 1 zone to 2 zone fare by feeding in your 1 zone transfer (from a bus!), paying the difference, and you get a new 2 zone mag stripe transfer. So I personally don't buy that it will cost 'at least $9M' to retrofit all the existing machines to make them have the same capability, but with Compass. To me, and I'm not as much of an expert in this area as even Traum, seems like some software programming could have been done at relatively cheap prices to make everything work well together since all the hardware and machinery is already currently in place.

For the record I am completely pro-Compass, and this entire issue is blown out of proportion by the media sensationalists. THE simplest solution is for everybody to get a Compass card, life goes on and we are all happy. However I don't believe Translink is telling all of the facts in complete truth, rarely does this ever happen. They are saying it will cost $25M to equip every single bus with a Compass dispenser, whereas it will cost at least $9M to do the same with much fewer stations at Skytrains? Something doesn't add up


uh, one of the biggest gripes about Skytrain since its implementation 25+ years ago was that you could simply walk on and walk off--this is something that was brought up EVERY time fare evasion became a discussion. The hardcore fare evaders will adapt and evolve and still find a free ride, but fare gates will discourage the casual fare evader, you know the ones who think "I pay my fare 9/10 times and I'm just a quarter short this time so I'll walk on since I likely won't be caught"--those include our dear Mayor Gregor Robertson.


I bet in 10 years it won't just be the bridges that are tolled. If the big cheese get their way, you'll be tolled per mileage driven ,which is fair if you are willing to support transit being charged per distance vs. by zones.

Originally Posted by UFO (Post 8302612)

One thing to note is that current Skytrain fare stations can already read the paper transfers with mag stripe. You can upgrade from a 1 zone to 2 zone fare by feeding in your 1 zone transfer (from a bus!), paying the difference, and you get a new 2 zone mag stripe transfer. So I personally don't buy that it will cost 'at least $9M' to retrofit all the existing machines to make them have the same capability, but with Compass.

Originally Posted by DragonChi (Post 8302706)

I think the issue with the Skytrains is that they have gates there, that are only RFID (compass). So if you don't have a RFID pass, then you can't get into the skytrain.

Originally Posted by franklucas (Post 8303054)

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petition...le-transit-fee

Online pettition against the double transit fee. SIGN it if your angry !
Posted via RS Mobile

Originally Posted by franklucas (Post 8303054)

http://www.change.org/en-CA/petition...le-transit-fee

Online pettition against the double transit fee. SIGN it if your angry!
Posted via RS Mobile

Originally Posted by Graeme S (Post 8303077)

Sign if my angry what?

Originally Posted by Lomac (Post 8303089)

Hell no.

Quote from that petition:


How is it hard to believe? All Translink has to do is look at the total cash from bus trips taken in at the end of the day, compare that amount to the day's total intake, and voila... you've got a very accurate number of how many people pay cash to ride a bus.

:facepalm: