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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.
Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.
That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.
thats the thing though! there are those cities you are talking about, i live in Surrey, near Newton (very brown populated) heres the thing, i walk down the street and im often greeted very nicely in English even if its broken, i can go down the street and see the obvious cultured stores and still feel very welcomed, i can read the stuff im looking at cuz its still in English somewhere. and im the obvious minority in the store i go into or where ever it is. but never once felt unwelcomed or like i didnt belong. alot of my neighbors adjusted to canada and didnt expect canada to adjust to them.
but this is the thing, if all the local signs started to become more unwelcoming to me i would have an issue. and it all starts somewhere. maybe a bus ad.. and then a store window.. so on and so on until it gets the the point where it really just is another "country"
Canada is about diversity.. not about closing yourself off in a little shell for your comfort.
they aren't closing themselves off. there's just enough of them that that's the way it rolled out man.
ok imagine this. india booms for whatever reason. and there's a HUGE influx of indians to surrey. i'm pretty sure surrey is gonna become a brown version of richmond. cuz of the huge influx, there's no need for them to have to gain new linguistic skills to survive. and you cant MAKE people do it either.
u guys understand? you guys are fighting the very essence of how sociology and nature work.
it just happened that there was a HUGE influx of chinese. what the fuck can you do about it? they already got rid of that law that allows them to buy their way in. what more now do you guys want?
here's a theoretical question.
if you were able to download chinese into your brains in a snap of a finger and suddenly able to understand and read chinese and not "feel left out". would you guys do it? or would you STILL be insistent on them changing the signs?
what if the chinese have already downloaded english... but they still choose to have chinese only signs? they just simply choose to live that lifestyle. they prefer that.
now the ball is in your court. is it really cuz you don't understand it, or cuz it's another language.
like someone else mentioned before... what if there was a hardcore computer programmer part of town and everything was in zero's and one's.... would you guys feel the same way?
I totally don't know what you guys are talking about. i just walked to work in richmond, and i held open a door for a mainlander and he said SAN QUE. good enough for me. if he didnt say anything i wouldnt care.
i walk down no3 road. there's plenty of non FOB feeling people. like... it doesn't feel like the chinese are TAKING over and TAKING away your shit.
like how culturalphobic are you guys? to the point where your perspective is so skewed that a few incidents dictate the whole city? to the point where you ONLY perceive those incidents. your eyes and minds are fixated to look for those FOBS that spit on the ground and dont say thank you. so fixated that you miss the fact that that's just your own perspective. and there are MANY more that don't do it.
hell i spit on the ground. not cuz i'm a mainlander, cuz i'm rude. and i know it.
the shit you guys talk about are isolated incidents that don't happen that much.
it's like me walking down downtown east side. despite my previous example of DTE i actually don't care about it and have no fear walking down that part of town alone at 3am at night. yes i've been pestered there a few times. and i realise that probably happens EVERYDAY. but you know what, that's just that part of town.
all i know is, in the 80's when i went to rmd, the best thing they had was lansdowne mall. and now when i look out my office window i see a bustling city that has boomed and has risen in economic rank without sacrificing the well being of the people.
No.3 and westminster is busy as fuck. GOOD. there's people DOING SHIT. the city is ALIVE. crawling with business and life.
what more do you want?
Diversity... this is diversity at its best. you wanna be surrounded by one way, live in one part of town, you wanna act another way? you live in another part of town. your definition of diversity is not diversity. you just want everyone to be one thing first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.
Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.
That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.
no man. you don't understand.
cultures are made up of the people that make it. and there's more of them now. so they influence the culture and the culture changes.
what culture are you talking about? white western mannerisms? that's your definition of canadian culture?
my definition of canadian culture is, we pay lots of tax and have pretty good healthcare, and the canadian flag.
that's it. nothing else matters. everything else is up to the individual or group of people they hang with. everything else can be changed, by the vote or population of the people. NOTHING else is permanent and nothing else really matters. it can all be changed. even our healthcare and flag itself. if enough people deem it to be, then IT IS. it's called a democratic society.
for the italian example in italy being racist and very "pro" their own culture. yeah they were also allied with the fucking nazis ok. that mentality and culture is still lingering there. we really wanna bring that up?
as for your bone spitting... you do know that when i go to higher end restaurants in china, especially in bigger cities like SH, western culture has spread there and it's considered rude to do all those "back water countrymen farmer" shit. you don't see the lower class yelling at the upper class telling them that they're taking away chinese culture. that people use forks and knives and don't spit their shit on the table anymore. you know why? cuz there's enough of them following the western mannerisms there that it's accepted in that part of town.
it's okay if there's a tiny ass community of FOB chinese doing their own thing right? but it's not okay when suddenly there's enough of them to form a huge town/city? wtf.
your definition of canadian culture is egocentric.
canadian culture is made up of whoever lives here. the people dictate it.
the whole concept of culture puts up borders and walls and makes people egocentric.
you guys should view the world as the world. and that any culture will appear anywhere. and you just have to accept it. because it's just part of our world.
like i said before... some of you guys dont wanna travel or move. guess what. the world is growing smaller and smaller every second because of technology. the world will COME TO YOU. there will be no cultural borders. any developed country, will eventually become a mix of every culture. there will be nothing that dictates who does what. everyone will be anything they want. and you just have to learn to navigate that in the new world.
you guys are gonna be those old grumpy 80 year olds... "back in my day we respected the culture"... and the kids will just roll their eyes at you, cuz they know that's the past. there will be no more borders. cultures will be mixed everywhere you go. and different cultures have different values. so you just have to accept it.
i'm 100% canadian. i hold no other passports or citizenships.
I don't like hockey. I don't participate in 90% of the shit you guys consider canadian. yes, i eat with a fork and knife AND chopsticks. when i see someone horking a huge loogie and spit it in the middle of the road i shake my head. only to be a hypocrite go and hork a loogie and spit it in the grass or gutter. I don't give a fuck about canada day or any other national day of any other country.
The only canadian pride i have is that i was born here. that's it. However canada changes and turns out to be, i accept it. if it's over run with indians. so be it. if its over run with chinese. so be it. i won't ENFORCE my values onto others in public. i have my own apartment i can do wahtever i want inside. i have a car and i can DRIVE TO OTHER PARTS OF TOWN that suit my mood.
I enjoy canada cuz i can do whatever the fuck i want. and no ones gonna tell me what to do. as long as i'm not physically hurting someone. it's okay.
I'm sure that's what you guys enjoy too. as for what happens in the public... that's SHARED territory. what part of that do you guys NOT understand?
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-20-2014 at 11:27 AM.
Ulic Qel-Droma is not about accepting new culture is that certain ethic group only wants everyone to communicate using their language follow their tradition even though they are ones who came to a new country to start a new life. If you don't follow their ways then they instantly ingore you, give you weird stares.
Like some of my friends form China when they eat they like to spit the bones out on the table while I put the bones in a bowl. Is a culture difference but that's ok cuz they accept my ways and I accept theirs. But some people ONLY want you to do it their way, in my example above those people might take my bowl away and argue till I follow their ways.
That's the key difference. You go to a different place you have to respect the culture there.
So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.
man you are grasping.
people in this thread arnt against any race, religion, language or holiday
we are saying that the sign SHOULD have some English on it.
have the sign in what ever Chinese dialect, but also have it translated in English. simple.
stop acting like the Chinese own Richmond. Canadians do. all, not just 1 ethnicity so in 1 way or another it should be welcoming to the rest of the population.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic!
So is St Patrick's day a Canadian tradition or something brought over by Irish immigrants.
Notice how St Patrick's day isn't a national holiday or a day off? Or Chinese New Year? No they are not recognize as national holiday but since Canada is a multi culture country we have people celebrating it as a way to get to know the culture more.
yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.
what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.
first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?
i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.
these people exist.
you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.
you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.
like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.
yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.
what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.
first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?
i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.
these people exist.
you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.
you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.
like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.
According to your logic why DON'T THESE PEOPLE LEARN ENGLISH. They have a choice too like any other person on this planet.
To answer your question no I don't because I have my headphone on and listen to my own tune anyways.
yeah how well did that workout? and im sure the koreans there have english on their signs.
what you guys don't get is even if they put english on their signs. the more extremist type that just hate asians cuz they're not white will appear. the very essence of this is centered around being cultural phobic.
first english signs. then what? english speaking only. then what?
i see fairly often walking around no 3. some old bitter white guy muttering racist shit under his breath when he seems chinese people do chinese things.
these people exist.
you might not be one of them. but the very essence of your argument is still the same phobia.
you guys are fucked man. get over it. it's just a language. you have a choice of learning it too, like any other person on this planet.
if you choose to not learn it... then who cares.
like mentioned before... when u get on a bus and everyone is speaking non-english, do you feel offended? DO YOU?
ANSWER that question.
who said this had to be "English only signs" or they have to all learn to become fluent in English the day they land.
and that old bitter white guy is just as bad cuz hes not accepting the multiculturalism of Canada.
having "CHINESE ONLY SIGNS" are just as bad as that old bitter white guy muttering shit. its a lack of respect for those around you.
now stop avoiding what is being said, those who are replying in the thread are off in their own little world completely avoiding why this is a debate in the first place.
im replying to what im reading. you are replying to what you are interpreting, clearly not reading most of the posts
Quote:
people in this thread arnt against any race, religion, language or holiday
we are saying that the sign SHOULD have some English on it.
have the sign in what ever Chinese dialect, but also have it translated in English. simple.
stop acting like the Chinese own Richmond. Canadians do. all, not just 1 ethnicity so in 1 way or another it should be welcoming to the rest of the population.
TBH, I WOULD agree with the "pro-Chinese-language" side IF my personal experiences did not highlight a distinct discrimination from Chinese people towards Asians who do not speak Chinese.
Case in point, I am Filipino but very frequently get mistaken for Chinese. Likely because I am not under 5 feet tall and I have very pale skin as well as "Chinese features" as my GF's dad likes to say. Whenever I eat in Richmond (rarely, now) and order in English because I don't speak Chinese, I always get dirty looks and markedly poor(er) service from the Chinese waiters/waitresses. Whereas when my GF orders in Chinese, literally right across from me, she always a gets much better quality of service. She has even commented on it a few times but nothing really changed. I literally feel embarrassed as fuck for not being able to speak Chinese so I get my GF to order for me. Well Tea and Alleluia are notorious for this type of stuff and have put a bad taste in my mouth, no pun intended, about going to Asian places in Richmond.
I have no problem with signs being in Chinese, my GF speaks/reads it perfectly so I am not worried about "translation", but there's something definitely wrong when I use an "official" language such as English in Canada and get looked down upon and discriminated against for using it. I work in customer service, and when people only speak some random language I always tried my best to find them someone who could communicate with them so that they could get the help they needed, and I definitely did not look at them like they were dirt for not speaking English. Unfortunately when it is the other way around for me I RARELY got that kind of treatment
According to your logic why DON'T THESE PEOPLE LEARN ENGLISH. They have a choice too like any other person on this planet.
To answer your question no I don't because I have my headphone on and listen to my own tune anyways.
they can, and like you they choose not to.
but they have a way of operating without the need to learn english.
and you have a way of operating without learning chinese.
they don't bother you. so why are you bothering them?
they're not imposing anything on you? so why are you imposing anything on them?
yeah so you don't get offended cuz you wear earphones. what if you weren't? would you get offended?
the point being, if u don't get offended, then the chinese signage is the same shit. you shouldn't get offended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snails
who said this had to be "English only signs" or they have to all learn to become fluent in English the day they land.
and that old bitter white guy is just as bad cuz hes not accepting the multiculturalism of Canada.
having "CHINESE ONLY SIGNS" are just as bad as that old bitter white guy muttering shit. its a lack of respect for those around you.
now stop avoiding what is being said, those who are replying in the thread are off in their own little world completely avoiding why this is a debate in the first place.
im replying to what im reading. you are replying to what you are interpreting, clearly not reading most of the posts
and youre not addressing other peoples points.
what if i own a bookstore that sold ONLY chinese books? why would my business sign have to include ANY english? anyone that shopped in that store would be interested in reading chinese or already know how.
you PERCEIVE it as disrespect only because of your egocentric personality.
it's NOT DISRESPECT.
disrespect is me swearing at you and telling you to fuck off.
it's a fucking SIGN. stop being such a pussy and feeling like it's an ATTACK on you.
ITS NOT.
respect is RESPECTING others ways and letting them BE. THATS RESPECT.
your definition of respect is IMPOSING some way on people so YOU FEEL better.
and lastly, you guys FORGET that these signs and ads are PRIVATELY OWNED OPERATED BUSINESSES. it ain't some public service for everyone. it's PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATE. they can operate their business HOWEVER they like as long as it obeys the laws.
GOT IT?
that's the MOST important thing here. PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATELY FUNDED. PRIVATELY OPERATED.
this isn't about some public service, or publicly funded shit. if it were, then you guys would be right, but it's not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARANOiA-R34
TBH, I WOULD agree with the "pro-Chinese-language" side IF my personal experiences did not highlight a distinct discrimination from Chinese people towards Asians who do not speak Chinese.
Case in point, I am Filipino but very frequently get mistaken for Chinese. Likely because I am not under 5 feet tall and I have very pale skin as well as "Chinese features" as my GF's dad likes to say. Whenever I eat in Richmond (rarely, now) and order in English because I don't speak Chinese, I always get dirty looks and markedly poor(er) service from the Chinese waiters/waitresses. I've also had situations where other Chinese people (just for speaking Chinese) get sat down first, etc etc. Well Tea and Alleluia are notorious for this type of stuff and have put a bad taste in my mouth, no pun intended, about going to Asian places in Richmond.
I have no problem with signs being in Chinese, my GF speaks/reads it perfectly so I am not worried about "translation", but there's something definitely wrong when I use an "official" language such as English in Canada and get looked down upon and discriminated against for using it. I work in customer service, and when people only speak some random language I always tried my best to find them someone who could communicate with them so that they could get the help they needed, and I definitely did not look at them like they were dirt for not speaking English. Unfortunately when it is the other way around for me I RARELY got that kind of treatment
have you ever thought maybe that's just your personality and how you PERCEIVE things?
i eat at all those places you mentioned. and i ALWAYS order in english.
don't use subjective arguments please
"I don't like the way he looked at me"
"uhhh i didn't see him looking at you any particular way".
we all know people like that. perceiving everything as rude and an attack on them. give me a break. get over yourselves man.
what you saw, was unique to you.
what if i own a bookstore that sold ONLY chinese books? why would my business sign have to include ANY english? anyone that shopped in that store would be interested in reading chinese or already know how.
you PERCEIVE it as disrespect only because of your egocentric personality.
it's NOT DISRESPECT.
disrespect is me swearing at you and telling you to fuck off.
it's a fucking SIGN. stop being such a pussy and feeling like it's an ATTACK on you.
ITS NOT.
respect is RESPECTING others ways and letting them BE. THATS RESPECT.
your definition of respect is IMPOSING some way on people so YOU FEEL better.
and lastly, you guys FORGET that these signs and ads are PRIVATELY OWNED OPERATED BUSINESSES. it ain't some public service for everyone. it's PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATE. they can operate their business HOWEVER they like as long as it obeys the laws.
GOT IT?
that's the MOST important thing here. PRIVATELY OWNED. PRIVATELY FUNDED. PRIVATELY OPERATED.
this isn't about some public service, or publicly funded shit. if it were, then you guys would be right, but it's not.
i thought i was doing a pretty good job, even when i was told white people steal land in the 1800's.. like it was my fault haha
and if that book store only sold chinese books he should have i sign up that says "chinese book store" so me (the public) knows if i wanna get a "chinese book" to go in there. dont assume. if hes really that unconformable with the english language he might be in the wrong country
and this has nothing to do with me being a "pussy" like i stated before. i live no where close to richmond, i have no reason to venture into richmond so honestly aside me saying that people of ALL background should acknowledge our national language its really not something that threatens me.
and if you really wanna go to the PRIVATELY OWNED ROUTE.. would it be silly of me to put ads up with my money saying "fuck the chinese" i mean.. its my money, my ad, my opinion for this example.. freedom of speech and if the chinese dont like it they dont have to read it.. its a pretty shitty thing and would be a shame if it was something that caught on and grew.. until a whole city was full of it and it was unwelcoming.. but hey. its my money and my ad space right?
that was a very far fetched example but its no different if your mentality is "they can do what they want"
no actually that would be considered a hate crime. lol.
you can't openly hate on any race or culture or lifestyle. c'mon you should know that.
u can't tell people how to micromanage their businesses man. this isn't some communist state. business and trade is free.
you're free to do business and trade with whoever you want. that's the basis of capitalism.
well you can, but it won't go well.
as for your concern of spreading and feeling unwelcomed.... like i have said. that's your own values that you have imposed on yourself.
you make yourself feel unwelcomed.
there are PLENTY of other people that can't read chinese that aren't chinese, that feel absolutely fine.
because they realise not everything is about themselves.
you guys make it seem like if you're white and u walk into richmond, people hiss at you and chase you out of town. it's not even anything like that.
the feeling you guys FEEL... are super subjective and the majority of people don't feel that way.
u guys understand that right? your subjective egocentric feelings and values are just that... a minority and self imposed.
you guys are like... mini haters and you don't even realise it. you literally lack the ability to perceive how ridiculous you guys sound.
basis of your argument is feeling unwelcomed. FEELING UNWELCOMED.
that's super subjective and this isn't even some theoretical idealistic argument. THERE'S A REALITY TO THIS. and i see the result is... you're wrong. the laws disagree. society disagrees because they have let it happen and no one really bitches about it. they accept it.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma
they can, and like you they choose not to.
but they have a way of operating without the need to learn english.
and you have a way of operating without learning chinese.
they don't bother you. so why are you bothering them?
they're not imposing anything on you? so why are you imposing anything on them?
yeah so you don't get offended cuz you wear earphones. what if you weren't? would you get offended?
No even without headphones I won't get offended because they are talking to their friends not me. So why would I care?
Again the official language is in English or French you can speak other language but don't complain or give them wired stares when people don't speak YOUR language. From the sound of your tone you feel is it 100% ok for anyone to move to a new country and not give a fuck about that country official language, their history, their culture etc etc.... like you could live in some giant bubble and simply live the way you did before you move. What's the point of moving then lol. The whole point of multiculturalism is so everyone can learn and accept.
Is different when it is an ad strictly trying to help people with gamble addictions so that means anyone with gamble addictions should be able to get the meaning of the ad. Which means it should be written in the official language which is either English or French. Remember the ad is funded by "A public advertisement from a government-funded charity" not some private company or from private sector.
no actually that would be considered a hate crime. lol.
you can't openly hate on any race or culture or lifestyle. c'mon you should know that.
u can't tell people how to micromanage their businesses man. this isn't some communist state. business and trade is free.
you're free to do business and trade with whoever you want. that's the basis of capitalism.
well you can, but it won't go well.
as for your concern of spreading and feeling unwelcomed.... like i have said. that's your own values that you have imposed on yourself.
you make yourself feel unwelcomed.
there are PLENTY of other people that can't read chinese that aren't chinese, that feel absolutely fine.
because they realise not everything is about themselves.
you guys make it seem like if you're white and u walk into richmond, people hiss at you and chase you out of town. it's not even anything like that.
the feeling you guys FEEL... are super subjective and the majority of people don't feel that way.
u guys understand that right? your subjective egocentric feelings and values are just that... a minority and self imposed.
who is to say that chinese or any other race only willing to deal among themselves is any less hate ? its not as obvious but its just as un accepting.
and the problem is much larger than the solution. solution is "make it equal for all" the problem is that this is segregating communities..
i was in SaveOn the other day and alot of the signs inside has english/ mandarin (i assume) and i didnt have a problem with it for even a second, hell i could still read, and the majority population being Chinese were doing just fine.. everyone is happy. best of both worlds.
see my point? this is not me being racist. this is me shooting for more equality.
No even without headphones I won't get offended because they are talking to their friends not me. So why would I care?
EXACTLY.
do you realise how silly you sound now?
those signs are exactly like vocal language. they're not talking to you. so why should you care?!
ITS THE EXACT SAME THING DUDE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
Again the official language is in English or French you can speak other language but don't complain or give them wired stares when people don't speak YOUR language. From the sound of your tone you feel is it 100% ok for anyone to move to a new country and not give a fuck about that country official language, their history, their culture etc etc.... like you could live in some giant bubble and simply live the way you did before you move. What's the point of moving then lol. The whole point of multiculturalism is so everyone can learn and accept.
the official language in official documents buddy.
official language does not mean its enforced down to every level of existence in the country.
if means if you go to any GOVERNMENT establishment, english or french will be offered. any ESSENTIAL SERVICES...will be provided in english or french.
our LAWS will be written in english or french. our politics and other OFFICIAL things will be in english or french.
it doesn't mean people have to speak it. understand that?
yeah it is okay to move to any country and not give a fuck about their ways. as long as you obey the law and pay your taxes... you are an okay citizen. that's all that matters. anything else above that is up to your own personal values.
why bother to move to another country? I don't know. because they want to? and that's a good enough reason.
it might not be a good enough reason to YOU. but that's your own self imposed values. to the eyes of the law and majority of other people, it's okay. cuz everyone has their own values and everyone follows their own way of life.
multiculturalism is about everyone learning to accept... not about forcing anyone to do things in any ONE way.
multi culturalism means, there's group A B C D E F G H I etc... they all do things very differently. and they all live in the same place.
SO THEY LEARN TO DEAL WITH IT, and not fuck with each other. you enter one zone, you expect one behaviour, you enter another zone, you expect another behaviour.
NOT, everyone HAS to have some standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
Is different when it is an ad strictly trying to help people with gamble addictions so that means anyone with gamble addictions should be able to get the meaning of the ad. Which means it should be written in the official language which is either English or French. Remember the ad is funded by "A public advertisement from a government-funded charity" not some private company or from private sector.
so how do you know how that particular department is run? maybe that person is in the chinese department. cuz you know there's enough chinese people that it's profitable running a chinese only department. and the department got enough money to fund their own ads to help their own department.
ever thought of that?
and the english speaking department has their own body of regulations that advertise to english speakers and deal with english speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snails
who is to say that chinese or any other race only willing to deal among themselves is any less hate ? its not as obvious but its just as un accepting.
and the problem is much larger than the solution. solution is "make it equal for all" the problem is that this is segregating communities..
i was in SaveOn the other day and alot of the signs inside has english/ mandarin (i assume) and i didnt have a problem with it for even a second, hell i could still read, and the majority population being Chinese were doing just fine.. everyone is happy. best of both worlds.
see my point? this is not me being racist. this is me shooting for more equality.
ok say you get your signage rules. half english half chinese or whatever.
you think people will stop complaining about being feeling unwelcomed in richmond?
they'll start bitching about how chinese people act (sorry not start... they already have started to bitch about it).
it's not just about the signage. it's about the attitude towards other cultures. they don't like them. period.
your signage thing is a small factor of this whole problem.
the problem is deep rooted in the nonacceptance of other cultures in "MY" nation.
if you guys get your english sign, the problem will be far from over. you understand me?
ok say you get your signage rules. half english half chinese or whatever.
you think people will stop complaining about being feeling unwelcomed in richmond?
they'll start bitching about how chinese people act (sorry not start... they already are).
it's not just about the signage. it's about the attitude towards other cultures. they don't like them. period.
your signage thing is a small factor of this whole problem.
the problem is deep rooted in the nonacceptance of other cultures in "MY" nation.
if you guys get your english sign, the problem will be far from over. you understand me?
have i complained about anything other than making the city more welcoming? this thread is about an all chinese sign creating a language debate.. its not about racist dicks who cant handle someone elses culture.. so as long as we are staying on topic.. yes i do think that is enough to fix the problem. of course there will always be the racists that believe they should leave the country. but thats not what this thread is about
there's PLENTY of people bringing up examples of how "rude" chinese people are or... how they act. spitting or saying thankyou or whatever.
"my parents brought me up to have manners"
"i was brought up to do this that blah blah"
"theyre all rich enough they can afford it"
"why do they even bother moving here"
the very fact that they BRING these issues up means there's a deeper rooted problem.
yeah maybe YOU yourself only care about the english part. but its VERY OBVIOUS that not everyone just cares about that.
they feel unwelcome not just cuz of the signage, but because of the mainland culture.
EVERY TIME this topic comes up... the same shit that doesn't have to do with signage gets said against the mainlanders. they start picking the mainlanders based on their way of life and values. not because of the signs.
you can agree on that no? it's obvious.
ignoring all that, we have a prime example right here.
me and the people that think like me. vs you guys.
in real life we could also debate about this. but at the end of the day what happens? we just go about our own business. we do things our own way and as long as i'm not FORCING you to do it my way, it's all good. RIGHT?
so why do you guys care so much about how someone else does their business? like really... who cares man...
edit: i'm not hating on any of you guys or like ... developing some subjective feeling where i now associate your usernames with "stupidity". cuz you guys have been around along time and i SEE where you guys are coming from. i'm just trying to get you guys to see the other side.
cuz if you only understand one side, of course everything makes sense and you feel right. but when you TRULY see both sides... you realise there can't be one right way and people just have to accept the way things are. it's not like this is some lawless land where people are getting hurt everyday and order needs to be restored... this is a super normal civil city.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-20-2014 at 01:20 PM.
like really, if they allowed english signs, then what? ppl gonna start complaining about size. like oh the english is too small. make it equal size. you KNOW some ppl are gonna raise that issue. probably the same people too.
and then what? business owners are gonna be like fuck, i have zero non-chinese customers, i have to maintain a sign that only is 50% effective, and reduced 50% visibility cuz of the size. what then?
this is capitalism man. as long as the businesses are paying taxes and as long as they are run the way they want within legal limits and the owners are happy and paying their taxes... who cares... they're PAYING TAXES.
theyre generating money the best way they know how, and paying money to the government so that you can have your healthcare, and your busses and skytrains and all that other stuff that's in ENGLISH.
like... c'mon man. its not like they're just TAKING shit. they PAY and CONTRIBUTE through monetary means. and that's good enough to 99% of the people out there.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-20-2014 at 01:24 PM.
i cant even tell if you are serious anymore. i think why you are opposing this thread is because you cant read English or you clearly havnt been following
i think every angle of this thread has been covered now.
all i gotta say is, i'm "only" 30, and i've had trouble learning languages my whole life. i'm like langauge retarded. i'm just unable to learn and have a new language STICK in my brain.
what makes you think someone else that might be less educated, less intelligent, and maybe immigrated here when they're 40? or 50? has the ability to fully adopt a new language? but they're willing to work and pay taxes.
language isn't easy. just like math isn't easy. to some people, language is as hard if not harder than math.
you CANT expect those people to just fucking learn it man.
perhaps all those dirty looks you got are subjective to their side too. imagine someone that's tried very hard their whole life to learn english, and they just cant fucking learn it.
you speak to them in english and they give u a disguisted face. maybe that face isnt for you. maybe they're frustrated at the fact that they cant speak english and that they've tried so hard. and they're so frustrated they cant keep it in but they express it on their faces.
is that so hard to imagine?
what if a store owner has super shitty english and cant learn it? and having english signs attracts too many english speakers that makes their daily life in business owning too frustrating... why not just let them run it the way they wanna run it?
they can't learn a new language... what the fuck do you want them to do? go back to their own countries?
i'm already beyond the age of learning new languages. i'm a heavy right brain dominated person. linear systematic shit like linguistics is a very left brain attribute. just cuz you think it's easy doesn't mean it is easy for other people.
there are 50% of people who are right brain dominated, and language and mathematics and other linear systematic ways of classification are extremely hard.
and there people that are right brained. who are way better than you left brained people at spatial memory, the arts, and other shit you guys could never do even if you tried.
you guys have to encompass ALL that shit man. people are diverse. language isn't just something u pickup and learn. some people could spend DECADES and never even come close to even being capable of utilizing it the way you want them to.
and when you realise not everyone can adapt the way you WANT the to adapt.. the best you can do is you let them do things their way... as long as they follow the law, that's good enough man.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-20-2014 at 01:55 PM.
all i gotta say is, i'm "only" 30, and i've had trouble learning languages my whole life. i'm like langauge retarded. i'm just unable to learn and have a new language STICK in my brain.
what makes you think someone else that might be less educated, less intelligent, and maybe immigrated here when they're 40? or 50? has the ability to fully adopt a new language?
language isn't easy. just like math isn't easy. to some people, language is as hard if not harder than math.
you CANT expect those people to just fucking learn it man.
perhaps all those dirty looks you got are subjective to their side too. imagine someone that's tried very hard their whole life to learn english, and they just cant fucking learn it.
you speak to them in english and they give u a disguisted face. maybe that face isnt for you. maybe they're frustrated at the fact that they cant speak english and that they've tried so hard. and they're so frustrated they cant keep it in but they express it on their faces.
is that so hard to imagine?
what if a store owner has super shitty english and cant learn it? and having english signs attracts too many english speakers that makes their daily life in business owning too frustrating... why not just let them run it the way they wanna run it?
they can't learn a new language... what the fuck do you want them to do? go back to their own countries?
i'm already beyond the age of learning new languages. i'm a heavy right brain dominated person. linear systematic shit like linguistics is a very left brain attribute. just cuz you think it's easy doesn't mean it is easy for other people.
you guys have to encompass ALL shit man.
and when you realise not everyone can adapt the way you WANT the to adapt.. the best you can do is you let them do things their way... as long as they follow the law, that's good enough man.
i agree with everything u said.. but why cant there be English in the ad somewhere ? by all means keep the other language to make it easier.. but what about the English for everyone else that dosnt have trouble speaking it
that leads to problems...
like what the english has to encompass..
if i were a store owner that couldnt speak english or had really crappy english...
what do u think would happen... they'd just throw up random words
that place beside memory express... big crazy. i still have no idea what they sell. wtf is big crazy?
there's a place i drove by... called super bored.
these signs... in english would not help... sure you can read them... but that it. it doesn't... help!
and if someone cant figure out what to write? what if they just start writing ABC or "store" or "happy cool!". you kinda see what i mean?
so what... now u have to have someone hired to help them? or they have to hire someone to help them?
it opens another can of worms...
if you look at it logically, from a business perspective... it's simply put... they have no need to put the effort in because they feel it would not benefit their business...
it's just as simple as that... it doesnt matter if you THINK it will benefit their business... THEY dont feel it and THEY own it and run it... what can you do?
you know what i mean?
I walk by chinese medicine shops sometimes and i honestly don't know what 80% of the shit they're selling in there is... and im sure unless you were some herbalist, you wouldn't either. and they probably don't even know what it's called in english... i sure as hell don't. and even if you told me the english name... i wouldn't know what it was.
it's just... it adds another layer of complexity on top of a problem that cant be solved already. of course this layer of complexity is pressured on the business owners side, which the consumer will not feel at all.
so us normal consumers walking around everyday... its easy to point fingers and tell them to change this for US. but you're not thinking about them... they're the ones that have to run it and maintain it. and they just... they just think its a headache or whatever reason. even if they just simply "dont want to" and yes that is assholish, but who cares... its their business.. ill take my money somewhere else.
i mean u don't get angry at someone who doesn't open the door for you or say thank you (even if they're not chinese).... yeah they're assholes or rude or... whatever you want to perceive, but they're allowed to... its their life. just let them be. move on and do what you gotta do.
edit: ok yes that ad in THIS topic... COULD have some english in it other than her name. like "addiction problems for chinese" or whatever.
but don't u see how some other people would just fuckign get angry cuz "oh its for chinese only" or "why the fuck they write it in english if its only for chinese?"
no matter what people will be pissed and twist it to their liking and their own values. this is like the best balance there is. if people just leave it be... then it will be ok. just ... accept and carry on man.
keep calm, carry on. forget it.. its not a big deal man.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 03-20-2014 at 02:22 PM.
i agree with everything u said.. but why cant there be English in the ad somewhere ? by all means keep the other language to make it easier.. but what about the English for everyone else that dosnt have trouble speaking it
So If I want to hire someone to translate Mandarin into English why would I put any English in the ad. It would just be a waste of my time and yours.
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