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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 06-20-2014, 07:29 PM   #26
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That type of jacket is fucking stupid.

Bet you so many people will jump off their bike and forget they were connected and they will just pop.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:27 PM   #27
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Guilty, but no jail time due to lack of criminal intent.

Emma Czornobaj guilty in 2 highway deaths after stopping for ducks - News - MSN CA
Nowhere does it say no jail time. It says the DEFENCE is advocating for no jail time. She has been found guilty now on both counts by a jury but the sentencing will take place at a later date by a judge. Jail is still an option.

/reading comprehension
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Old 06-20-2014, 09:25 PM   #28
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err yah, she was in the involvement of a scenario that caused the death of 2 people and didn't intend it. she has to live with that for the rest of her life. isn't that severe enough?

unless you assume her guilt functions differently and she feels nothing at all and you need to punish her so she can realise what she has done.

I don't think she's that stupid. I'm pretty sure she knows what she did and she doesn't intend to do it again.

that being said. she is only 50% responsible. it takes two to tango. this isn't a stray bullet case. this is a highway, where all motor vehicle operators are licenced and have met a level where the govt deems they are smart enough to be aware of their surroundings and able avoid collisions.

i don't know about you, unless this was at night and they were going really fast, and the parked car had no lights on at all. there isn't really an excuse.

she shouldn't of been parked.
but he should have seen her and avoided the collision.
People here smell blood and they are looking for justice with their internet pitchforks. I bet if she was a family member, they'd be singing a different tune.

Humanity is losing its empathy, and this is a perfect example of it.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:21 PM   #29
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What if an alternator/battery failed? What if she was waiting in a traffic jam? I don't know the circumstances but a car with a door open would be much more noticeable than a car sitting in a traffic jam where there is a sudden change in highway flow. I thought the reason for keeping a safe following distance was to prepare for situations exactly like that.

I remember a few years back this happened and was apparently caused by unsecured cargo falling out of someones truck. Not sure if anybody was charged.
Port Mann motorcycle crash kills two people
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:44 PM   #30
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How fast was the motorcycle going for the "back end of the car to lift up in the air"
the force of a 400lb bike with 2 people on it going 90km/h is most definitely enough to lift the back end of a car up in the air
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:00 PM   #31
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People here smell blood and they are looking for justice with their internet pitchforks. I bet if she was a family member, they'd be singing a different tune.

Humanity is losing its empathy, and this is a perfect example of it.
Easy there with the generalizations. Its like Ulic said, there's always 2 sides. I agree, if she was family then there's a different tune. At the same time, if the victims were family, i'm sure you would search for some type of vindication. That's where i agree prison time won't provide that justice but that doesn't mean there should not be any punishment at all. Her having to live with it is tough for her and very unfortunate however, does that provide the vindication for the victim's family? It may or may not. What's the point of having a discussion board if you can't post an opinion. It's not about smelling blood, it's more about contemplating the different perspectives and from the victims side, I would think they would want something in return for the loss of 2 lives.
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:06 PM   #32
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What if an alternator/battery failed? What if she was waiting in a traffic jam? I don't know the circumstances but a car with a door open would be much more noticeable than a car sitting in a traffic jam where there is a sudden change in highway flow. I thought the reason for keeping a safe following distance was to prepare for situations exactly like that.

I remember a few years back this happened and was apparently caused by unsecured cargo falling out of someones truck. Not sure if anybody was charged.
Port Mann motorcycle crash kills two people
This is a good point, the motorcyclist hit her after all, and there are plenty of valid reasons to be stopped dead on a highway. So what was the motorcyclist doing to hit an obstacle that other people were able to avoid without difficulty?
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Old 06-20-2014, 11:10 PM   #33
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The situation seems black and white on paper, but it's not. They weren't the only two vehicles on the road when it happened. Yes, it would be upsetting to some if a family of ducks got run over, but is it really worth the risk/danger not only to yourself but to everyone else on the road? After witnessing a similar situation (that could have ended MUCH worse than this one, but didn't), I will never stop on a highway unless absolutely necessary (i.e. emergency).

Coming off the Alex Fraser Bridge on the 91, heading west towards Richmond, right where traffic from the Queensborough also merge onto the 91, there are 3 lanes on the highway. This was during the day in broad daylight with traffic flowing decently at normal speeds (100km/h). As I come down in the far left lane, I see traffic in the middle lane abruptly come to a sudden stop, and a few cars that couldn't stop in time swerve/cut into my lane. Within seconds, the left lane is now slowed to a roll, and the middle lane is at a complete stop. I could hear tires screeching from behind. It took another few seconds before I could see that there was a guy on the f'in highway chasing ducks to try to get them to safety. He was standing in the middle lane and chasing them to the right side of the highway.... and the moment he chased them into the right lane, three cars in the right lane (that were still coming down at highway speeds) came screeching to a stop. Behind them, an 18 wheeler semi-truck coming down the highway COULD NOT stop in time and swerved onto the shoulder of the highway.

Good intention does not equate good decision. Had that 18 wheeler not been able to swerve into the shoulder, or had there been no shoulder and a concrete barrier instead, we would've said bye-bye to the "good samaritan", bye-bye to the ducks, and possibly to a bunch of other drivers on the road.

Even if the highway was empty with nothing between the girl's stopped car and the motorcyclist, the rate at which you approach a completely non-moving object while going highway speed will be very fast. Throw in a couple cars in between that block your view and don't swerve out of the way till the last second, the motorcyclist would've had no chance to stop in time. Keep in mind that a motorcycle requires a greater stopping distance than a car. If you grab the brakes too abruptly, you'll either get thrown off (along with your daughter) or the brakes will lock up and you + bike will go sliding down the highway either into the stopped vehicle, or get run over by traffic from behind.

It's a highway. It was designed for greater speeds and less stops. You can be the safest driver in the world, but naturally you would not expect someone to completely stop in the middle of the highway.

*not everyone on the road has full visibility of EVERYTHING ahead. The car in front of you is blocking the view, and the car in front of them is blocking their view. From the first car onwards, every car that abruptly brakes will have less and less reaction time, while requiring a greater stopping power (holding that everyone is travelling at the same speeds).

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Old 06-21-2014, 12:14 AM   #34
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Here's a contradiction...

Can someone explain this?

This woman was found guilty because she stopped for ducks.
Then a motorcycle smashed into her.

Here's a question..who is at fault? The answer is, the rider who rear ended her.

In this VERY PARTICULAR CASE...she stopped for ducks.
What if she had to stop for something other than ducks...like traffic jam?

She was found guilty because she did NOT put hazard lights on...
But if she had to stop due to traffic jam, other people's broken down car, random pedestrians, slamming on brake suddenly due to deer/bear crossing, then NO HAZARD LIGHTS REQUIRED.
But if you're stopping for ducks? MUST PUT HAZARD LIGHTS ON
what if it was something other ducks? deer, bear, raccoon, random kids walking on highway, etc.

As someone mentioned...maybe the motorcycle was not paying attention.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:20 AM   #35
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Here's a contradiction...

Can someone explain this?

This woman was found guilty because she stopped for ducks.
Then a motorcycle smashed into her.

Here's a question..who is at fault? The answer is, the rider who rear ended her.

In this VERY PARTICULAR CASE...she stopped for ducks.
What if she had to stop for something other than ducks...like traffic jam?

She was found guilty because she did NOT put hazard lights on...
But if she had to stop due to traffic jam, other people's broken down car, random pedestrians, slamming on brake suddenly due to deer/bear crossing, then NO HAZARD LIGHTS REQUIRED.
But if you're stopping for ducks? MUST PUT HAZARD LIGHTS ON
what if it was something other ducks? deer, bear, raccoon, random kids walking on highway, etc.

As someone mentioned...maybe the motorcycle was not paying attention.
Brake lights buddy brake lights.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:27 AM   #36
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We don't know who's fault it is because we don't know the exact circumstances. We'd like to think we do, but we don't, so let's not be so quick to assign blame.

moral of the story: don't stop for ducks
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:00 AM   #37
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isn't the moral of the story, watch where you're going? haha... wouldn't that be a better universal rule... than not to stop for ducks...
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:42 AM   #38
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watching where you're going doesnt automatically mean you'll be able to stop in time
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:26 AM   #39
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Brake lights buddy brake lights.
Keepin neutral on a flat surface or slowly creeping forward at lowest rpms on first gear? pretty similar
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