Canadian court rejects rich migrants’ compensation claim over defunct visa scheme

[Xplicit_EL]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

corruption come down? Yea right. Cousin mom owns a business in China. Recently she got in trouble with the law (If there is actual law lol). She knows the city mayor so to her the case is good as a win. Guess what, the other party knows someone higher up. BAM she instantly lost the case and have to pay like 50% of her whole business just to get of jail.

Yes that's a fine way their justice runs. Is not about who is right, is about who you know.

If China is so great why do so many billionaire wants to get away from China? If it is great why not stay? Coz they know any sec the gov could throw them in jail take all their wealth and let you rot in jail for the rest of your life. Not only is your life ruin but also your family, your relatives and even your close friends are all fuck.

What about pollution? Poison food they sell, how 99% of the population make close to nothing. If China is great Ulic why don't go back and stay there. Don't come back to Canada ever.

Fixing pollution is a fucking joke. China refuse to sign the United Nations Climate Change Conference treaty because they know they won't be able to reduce their pollution (just to be fair other countries have refuse to sign it as well). Yes if they really do want to fix the pollution issue they would have sign the treaty and do all in their power to reduce pollution.

Exactly, China will never dominate because they fuck over their own citizens. They have no Rule of Law which makes for pissed off citizens. They have no human rights which will lead to more protests ie: occupy HK .

If that won't destroy their society the fucking pollution will. You think that Communist China officials care a shit about the environment? They only care about how much money they can stash away and leave the country in a worse place then when they came into power. Ulic is seriously delusional if he thinks that all this will somehow disappear and get better.

Ulic your figure on how China has more solar panels or what not then any other country might be correct but look how many people are fucking in China. Its all a matter of perspective. China is still the worst polluter of any country and this is not going to change within the next 100 years. And even if it does, non of us are going to be around to see the effect. Soo Ulic your points are moot, because you cannot predict the future. And hence that is why you are talking out your ass as usual.

I highly suspect you are a commie by the way.

[Xplicit_EL]

To add to that, you always fucking quote the 1% of super rich chinese that immigrate here and you never look at the dirt shit poor people that make up the majority of the population in China. This shows that you are out of touch with reality.

[Marco.911]

Problems with China:

Pollution
Corruption
Poor behaviour
Social system fallacy
Lack of innovation
Monetary policy fallacy



Some of these points will tie in together.



Pollution:

Compared with Canada, especially Vancouver and BC, this isn't even a discussion. China is dirty as hell compared to us - yes I've been. I'm also aware that some areas of China are also quite beautiful and pretty. Any area that occupies the sheer mass of people that are found in China will have environmental impact.

A large part of this problem is that China is moving and growing too quickly. An example of a large city with a problem is New York. Now I'm not saying New York is as dirty as China, but New York is a city that grew very very fast and had a lot of problems during that growth. 100 years later it is much better but it's still archaic with some of their systems.

China is growing so fast that it's difficult not to have elevated pollution. I don't believe China wants a dirty environment. The problem is that they aren't willing to put on the brakes with the rapidity of the development and let other avenues 'catch up'. There is too much money to be made and so they idea of "we'll clean it up later" or "we'll deal with it later" becomes the common theme.


Corruption

It's everywhere and in Canada too. China gets a bad reputation for it as do a lot of other countries such as South American countries and generally "poorer" countries.

This is a difficult subject to make a case for. I can give examples of corruption that might seem favourable while many others that are not. At the end of the line (as with a great deal of the pollution issue) it comes down to show me the money.

With so much boom and families feeling like they're going to get left behind I can understand their situation. If you're worried that your son or daughter won't get the education you believe they need to be successful in the future and it's because you couldn't afford it, you might take a bribe. Like most things in China, they spin out of control. Too much growth too fast and nobody can wait for anything. People will pay to expedite their plans.


Poor Behaviour:

I think this is where things got wild for most of us on this thread. I am not suggesting poor behaviour is acceptable. What I am saying is that it is to be expected. You simply cannot give people the kinds of money we are talking about without significant preparation and then ease them into it. Sadly this is a problem in almost all cultures. As money is the means of power, the more of it you have, the more you can use it to justify (right or wrongfully so) your actions.

Movie stars do drugs, sports players beating their girlfriend's or wives. It's not good. The flip side is they do a lot of good things too like donate money, pay large taxes to build infrastructure etc. I believe that the behaviour in China will improve over time but not without some life lessons along the way.

Yes, there are people that win millions and don't change at all. That's not the norm. I never thought you could make a 458 Ferrari ugly and then I drive into Richmond and I'm proven wrong. Class, style, elegance is something that comes with time and experience. Most of China does not have that yet and it will likely take decades before this is improved.

It doesn't change the fact that there is also a lot of good being done with this money.



Social system fallacy

The system as a whole is quite new. China hasn't worked out all the bugs. They've probably tried to do what they do best which is copy other systems and adopt them to their own. The difficulty is that no system has ever been tested on the scale that China is doing things and so there are a lot of problems. China may very well want to put the brakes on a lot of things but you can't stop half a billion people moving in a second. It takes time. As of right now I believe they are doing a pretty good job trying to keep things together given the situation. It's a mess though and it won't get fixed until the country slows down.



Lack of innovation


I believe that China lacks a lot of innovation which is sad because China did so many things right a millennia ago. Most of the money being made in China is due to scale. Alibaba is nothing new or even that great. Ebay and various other systems did that over two decades ago. China is getting into the press because when China does something, it's so huge.

If you make a product that 20 million Canadians have to have and you're selling this product, you'd be insanely successful by our standards. In China, you can copy the same product and make it less effective but because of scale, you're company is now selling to 200 million people. 10 times that of your product. It's going to make waves and catch attention.

I believe China has the ability to be innovative and they have done some things that I can appreciate for sure. Overall though, China is very much lacking in this but some might say who cares because it's making them money. I never said Chinese people were stupid, nor poor, just not particularly innovative as a nation.



Monetary policy fallacy

Given my profession I'm somewhat embarrassed to say I'm not 100% familiar with their entire policy. That doesn't mean I can't make an educated opinion about it. Modern monetary policy is just a made up set of rules we use to try and keep some level of order on things.

It stops us from wielding weapons and using force as the defining law. China is making it up as they go no more or no less than the US. The big question is, is it working?

Right now it is. I can't say if it will continue to do so. I can say that it will fail in the future at some point. That is an absolute but that still doesn't mean the country will collapse and fail to hold value in the global world.




Is China a superpower?


They're for sure important. The amount of wealth alone is enough to make a global impact. The number of people within the boarders make it a significant powerhouse. As Ulic mentioned, I think this has more to do with who's strongest. It's more of a can China beat the US or can China beat country 'X'.

I think of China as the bratty 5 year old in kindergarten. As a modern country they are very young and right now they need the rest of the world to learn. As they learn, they will piss off a bunch of people and do a lot of damage. Over time, they will mature and require less help, they will become more independent and someday possibly become a leader.

Just like a kid, he could get cancer and die, turn out to be a loser and be addicted to drugs, or just flat out be that average accountant that does a good job but never really holds the steering wheel.

Time will tell.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

-they've got pollution (half agree)

China starts televising the sunrise on giant TV screens because Beijing is so clouded in smog | Daily Mail Online

The density of PM2.5 was about 350 to 500 micrograms Thursday midmorning, though the air started to clear in the afternoon. It had reached as high as 671 at 4 a.m. at a monitoring post at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing.

That is about 26 times as high as the 25 micrograms considered safe by the World Health Organization.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Here is more of how China is cleaning up the pollution issue

Pollution In China Is Out Of Control: 33 Shocking Photographs

Don't think so lol.

[SkinnyPupp]

All these pictures are a frustrating reminder that no matter what Americans/Europeans/Japanese/etc do to prevent climate change and pollution, it's not going to matter. Because China has more people than anyone and they don't give a flying fuck.

The normal countries could potentially find some way to end or reverse climate change completely, but if China isn't going along with it, it's not going to matter.

And like Ulic says, since they have so much money, they have the power to do so. That includes fucking things up for the rest of the world. And I don't mean pissing in the streets.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

right, because they're trying, it doesnt mean they can clean up 40 years of pollution overnight.

why don't you guys measure their level of pollution in another 40 years and tell me i'm wrong (hell, i'll give em an optimistic 15 years). I bet you 15-40+ years from now, it will be a lot better than now.

there gets to a point where not giving a fuck affects how much money comes in. and when they realise they can make more money by cleaning up and fixing laws, THEY WILL, FOR THE MONEY.

again i tell you guys to stop using current examples and examples of the recent past. Shit doesn't change over night, shit doesn't change in a week, in a year. it takes DECADES. how many times do i have to tell you to stop using examples that are within our or our parents lifetimes. Think further dumbasses.

you think environmentalists (the few that existed) back in the industrial age thought they'd ever clean that shit up? well looky, it's fucking gone 185 years later.

185 years. and most of it was cleaned up within this century.

i think the divide here is because some people lack the ability to observe from a macro perspective, beyond their own little lives. If it ain't happening now, or within an impulsive measurable amount of time, it doesn't simply cannot exist and cannot happen.

yeah, we went from not being able to fly, to being able to send people to the moon in 66 years.

you guys SERIOUSLY think in 66 years, things are gonna be the fucking same as now?

how short sighted are you guys?

and it's not like it's completely ON china to clean china. other countries can invent things that clean faster, and china will either buy it off them or copy it and use it to their own needs.

i cannot believe how near sighted people can be.

In the first half of the 18th century, both London and Paris, the largest cities in Europe with respectively 1 and 2.4 million inhabitants by 1850, experienced a series of recurring epidemics of cholera and typhoid. In 1832 over 20,000 Parisians died in a cholera outbreak; London experienced similar outbreaks. This was caused by increasing amounts of sewage dumped into the Seine and Thames rivers.

...much sewage was still discharged in open water outside cities and air pollution continued unchecked until the mid-20th century.

London was infamous for its combinations of smoke and fog, combined in the word smog, and therefore earned the nickname “the Big Smoke”. All major cities suffered from smoke pollution and Edinburgh’s nickname, “Auld Reekie” refers partly to the sanitary situation of the town as well as to smoke pollution. The effects of air pollution brought cities to a halt, disrupting traffic but more dangerously also causing death rates to rise. During a week of smog in 1873 killed over 700 people in London. However, the largest air pollution disaster in Britain was the Great London Smog of December 1952 which killed approximately 4,000 people.

Following the Great London Smog legislation was introduced and the first Clean Air Act was passed in 1956 which moved power stations and heavy industry to more rural sites. The reduction of domestic and industrial coal burning and the use of smokeless coals has led to a reduction in the levels of emission of sulphur dioxide, one of the main contributors to acid rain, the emissions falling between 1970 and 1994 by 60 percent in British cities. Similar developments can be observed in many industrialised countries.

look at the dates mentioned. 1956, 1970, 1994.

that's not that fucking long ago. we didn't even fucking start really recycling till OUR generation. ask your parents how dirty some of these places were in the 50's-80's.

700 people died in a week in london cuz of smog. and 4000 died in december 1952.

you don't think china, will go through the exact god damn same thing london will? new laws will come up cuz even the leaders own kids are suffering? because more money is being spent of hospital and care of the sick than being on production? are you guys really that near sighted?





btw, the last picture is china 2010.

stop measuring things with your own very subjective personal experiences and measure them by the great time lengths of repeating patterns throughout history.

ALL NATIONS GO THROUGH THE SAME SHIT. and like all nations, they pull themselves out of it.

if you're willing to bet against that, well then, there's no discussion, cuz you're an idiot.

[SkinnyPupp]

The central government is trying - they have to. Problem is, there is so much corruption from the upper levels all the way down to the janitor that there's nothing they can do.

Like Ulic said, money = power to do "whatever the fuck you want". In this case, thousands of people are making lots of money, getting lots of power, at the expense of millions of others.

But hey, they have money, so you have to respect that right? Idolize them even

you guys SERIOUSLY think in 66 years, things are gonna be the fucking same as now?

At this rate, there will be no cities in China that are liveable in 66 years. We'll be lucky if there are any on earth at all.

"ALL NATIONS GO THROUGH THE SAME SHIT"

All nations went through this shit once, because they didn't have the benefit of someone else "going through the shit" before. China does, and they have the power not to "go through the same shit". However greed and corruption is way more important to them (and you) to do the right thing.

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOl yea takes 15 to 40years to clean up. By 2030 China will run out of clean water to use. I don't think your so call cleaning up really works when they are all using polluted water and getting themselves kill.

So Ulic long term plan isn't going to work lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources_of_China"Over-extraction of groundwater and falling water tables are big problems in China, particularly in the north. According to the Ministry of Construction, preliminary statistics show that there are more than 160 areas nationwide where groundwater has been over-exploited with an average annual groundwater depletion of more than 10 billion cubic meters. As a result, more than 60,000 square kilometers of ground surface have sunk with more than 50 cities suffering from serious land subsidence.[2] Flooding also still is a major problem.

In a Xinhua article from 2002, Chinese experts warned of future or current water shortages. Water resource usage was expected to peak in 2030 when the population peaks. Areas north of the Yangtze river were particularly affected with 80.9% of Chinese water resources being south of the river. Northern China had used 10,000-year-old aquifers which had resulted in ground cracking and subsidence in some regions.[3]"

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion...t_15969860.htm
China told to reduce food production or face 'dire' water levels | Environment | The Guardian
Water: All dried up | The Economist

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah just like my grade 7 idiot teacher told us taiwan would be unlivable in 10 years. and that was 20 years ago.

cuz back then everyone was attacking taiwan the same way u guys are attacking china for pollution and all these other superficial things. because all the factories were situated there. etc.

in 66 years they'll be nothing left to live... but they'll fix it before then

u guys watch too much fucking dystopic sci fi shit man.

it is the year 2070, pollution and corruption has made ALL of china UNLIVABLE.

uh huh. ok.

what's going to happen is they're going to transcend the industrial age and move onto the next step.

while place like vietnam and other poorer countries will go through what china is going through NOW. all the factories and shit will move there because labour will be cheaper there. and all you fuckers will be saying how corrupt and polluted those countries are, and how unlivable they'll be in 20 years.

as we speak, factories are already moving to poorer countries, because the cost of labour in china is already starting to get too high.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

mr happysilp... wtf

you think the middle east doesnt have water shortages?

u know... where water doesnt exist?

HELLO TECHNOLOGY FIXES THAT. israelis lead in water desalinization. and the middle east is full of that technology.

"Sea water desalination[edit]
Due to the water problems, as well as for future exports, China is building up its desalination technological abilities and plans to create an indigenous industry. Some cities have introduced extensive water conservation and recycling programs and technologies.[12]"

they'll FIX IT because they HAVE TO. with TECHNOLOGY which they have MONEY to invest in.

it's SIMPLE it just takes time. and by the way, if u haven't noticed, water shortage is kinda a GLOBAL problem. but there's plenty of water in the sea. that's why desalination technology is rising so fast. when it becomes cheaper to desalinize water vs import it, they'll switch to desalinization... it's not that hard to imagine man. there's whole oceans of water. we aint short on water.



anyone that is willing to bet, 10-15 years from now if you're still around on RS. lets have a bet
im willing to throw down 10,000 dollars canadian. ill put money on it.

the bet is the quality of life in china in 10-15 years will be improved vs 2014.
this means access to clean air, water will be improved... local corruption will be lower, average wage will be higher, etc. basically "closer to 1st world" than it is in 2014.

willing to take the bet?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change. While in many parts of the world funding for basic research is decreasing, in China things are different. Funding is increasing in critical scientific areas. Perhaps more importantly, in China, scientists are respected. - The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change | John Abraham | Environment | The Guardian

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

What do you care what a "numbskull" thinks?

Edit: Anyway, instead of a troll post I'll just say that anything you see that reflects the China government in a positive light in any way is going to be at least 80-90% bullshit. They devote a lot of time, effort, and money into altering their image to the rest of the world.

I mean I get it, if you're just a clueless knob who thinks money is more important than anything else in the world, and if that's the case, china is obviously the place to do it (BTW why aren't you doing that?). But to tow the community party line and eat their propaganda... Sorry. You should know better.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change. While in many parts of the world funding for basic research is decreasing, in China things are different. Funding is increasing in critical scientific areas. Perhaps more importantly, in China, scientists are respected. - The Chinese scientific revolution aims to tackle climate change | John Abraham | Environment | The Guardian

Yah what do u numbskulls have to say now?

China also said a lot of things which isn't true. Such as the news they broadcast about the occupy hk claiming ppl are on the street celebrating National Day of the People's Republic of China. Which as we know is not true at all.

Anything you want to add Mr.ILoveChinaIWillLickTheirAss?