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Originally Posted by iEatClams ^ so what if we are being hypocrites? They may contribute in taxes paid, but I feel they can be detriments in other ways that cant be compared in monetary terms, and whose to say it doesn't prevent more of them from coming in? |
because if you're being hypocritical, then they can be as well. and then both your arguments are invalid lol. why don't u just stick your middle fingers up and throw shit at each other? it's the same thing.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams In all honesty it does come to conforming to our culture and values. You are right, I don't like their rude snot blowing ways, or their inconsiderate nature, lack of manners , greedy culture that values $ over all. I prefer the canadian culture and I want to keep it that way. It may appear as discrimination, but I view it as a culture discrimination. They are viewed in a negative light even from their own people. disclaimer - I am asian. |
yeah but don't u think you're just over generalizing? they must ALL be like that right?
lol... how many non chinese millionaires do you know? maybe it's not chinese... maybe it's just millionaires. or people in the position of power and money... maybe you're just discriminating against money.
cuz most money in china is new money... i can guarentee you if millions of "normal average canadians" suddenly got tons of money, a lot of them would become assholes and spend like mad... they'd all be YOLO and doing dumbass shit.
you don't have to look far to see these kinda things in our culture. just look at all the fast money young artists in western culture. how many of them do stupid shit and show off?
are they not "western culture"?
the problem is most people will get an inflated ego when they get money fast, and they were not born into money nor experienced wealth in their life.
this applies to most people.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams Guaranteed you if this was 5000 rich applicants from places like Switzerland, Germany, Sweden etc not one person would be bitching. |
I guarantee you if rich applicants from those places you named were applying here like the mainland chinese were... there's something really fucked up going on in europe. and they would be mad when they were denied.
that example was pretty bad, cuz i don't think they'd wanna immigrate here... the places you named are superior in almost every way.
how about if canada was more like a 3rd world country, and you were applying to switzerland and 8 years later they just cut you off and say no. lol... yeah, you wouldn't get mad right.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams Similar issues are happening with immigration in european countries when new immigrants that are much different do not conform. There are rich iranian, russian kids living here driving nice cars right now and you dont see us complaining about them? |
they have the same problems as us. you go to UK and look at all the cultural bigots bitch about the rich arab kids revving their loud million dollar cars together, driving by harrods acting exactly like the mainlanders do here.
in fact... if you go to any 3rd world country and view the westerners that suddenly feel "super rich" there, you should see how a lot of them act.
exactly like the way these super rich here act.
like i said, when most people suddenly feel powerful, they're gonna be a lot less polite and do a lot more "YOLO" "fuck what they think" attitude.
the SAME aspect of ego driving you guys to bash them, will be the same ego that will drive your thirst to show off and abuse your power. you just don't realise it yet.
it's just you guys don't have any power. your only power right now is your "rightful canadian" citizenship... hence you guys leveraging it and using it like you own it.
if you guys suddenly all won the lottery, you guys might not be douches all the time. but i can say for sure, enough of you guys will, enough to to make the public think you're douches.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams Last I remember our country is a democracy where the majority of people are Canadians with canadian values, and so what if we want it to be that way, whether it's rational or not? |
that's not how it works man. rationality is what separates us from most of the beasts under us in the food chain.
also you're speaking as if your opinion represents all of canadian value...
the last i thought canadian values were just be nice and accepting, and treat everyone fairly and equally.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams We cant do much with the hicks that we already got here, but we can do something about the people that are not here yet. |
they're not here yet, but they're not hicks that are coming here. they're people with immediate pragmatic use to our economy ($). their intrinsic potential is still not known, but i can say it's higher than most canadians. they're millionaires. they can create things on a whim with the money they have. ideas and businesses. whatever they want. you have to go look for a job and slave away.
i still don't see the down side here.
it's not like they're gonna be EVERWHERE... 1500 people man. that's less than the size of a highschool. the money they're bringing in MORE than makes up for any detriments they will cause.
YOU might not want them here for some selfish reason. but I want them here, cuz i want their fucking money so I can improve my life, and canada the way I see fit.
at the very least, canadians should view them just as another tool in the tool box for canada. no more no less right?
what's the harm? they're not jihadists. they're not gonna spread some religion or something crazy.
they're gonna just spend money on ridiculous luxury items and splurge on shit... i forget... please remind me... i think we live in western society, called capitalism...
in fact, i think in real world application... us north americans actually value capitalism over democracy. capitalism takes priority first. not democracy.
not saying what should be... just saying thats how it is.. and that's how it's ALWAYS been.
democracy like CiC would say... is just an illusion. real democracy is voted with dollar bills. money.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams I apologize if this threads on the line of being a bigot or racist, and mods please remove it if it is, it is not my intention, I was just stating it as I see. |
it is kinda, but i don't see it that way.
i just see it more as egotistical. not being able to sympathize or empathize with another culture because of one's own ego blinding themselves from realising that other people on this planet, are just extensions of themselves.
people can be taught, and changed.
if not them, their kids, or their kids kids... who cares if it takes 1-2 generations? that's nothing... who cares if it's your WHOLE life... there's trillions of years ahead that others will enjoy.
the world timeline doesn't just consist of your own short little life. ego, selfishness... man.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams there's a saying that money cant buy you class. and I understand a lot of these people were from working poor or farmers and now they are super rich millionaires, but if they can just be educated on not defecating or urinating in public, Budging in lines, not throwing their garbage in their condo lobby etc, I think less people would be having issues. |
some of them can be educated.
the apartment I lived in has a huge problem with EVERYONE throwing whatever trash or objects into every different type of bin.
until someone took the time to make proper labels that were in chinese. along with pictures and other visual diagrams. someone took the time to make that and now they're on a lot of the bins i see. guess what? the problem has half resolved itself. just cuz someone took the time and effort to FIX the situation instead of just ignoring it or bitching about it.
i mean why wouldn't they? in china they literally dump their bare garbage in a pile outside the shops on the side walk at night. there's huge piles of garbage outside every store at night. they don't use garbage cans... trucks come along and take it all up. people with brooms and shit come and clean all that shit up.
if you moved to china, and you couldn't find a garbage can, wouldn't you be confused? what would you do? probably put it in the closest thing that resembled a garbage can right? well the ground is the closest thing that resembles a garbage can here.
old habits die hard. it's just one generation of them...
and like old stubborn people... they won't change... we just have to wait for them to die off. but we don't focus on them... we focus on their future generations... the ones we CAN mold... and those little kids will have access to their parents money, but be canadian. ISNT THAT ENOUGH REASON TO LET THEM IN!? and their kids kids will be more canadian... and hopefully the money will still be running in the family.
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Originally Posted by iEatClams I think it will just take a generation or two, just like with other immigrants that have came here in the past |
exactly... now you're thinking in bigger pictures and more of a futurist. the RIGHT NOW doesn't matter as much as people think. it's just an itch we can't scratch, in the future, we won't even care or remember this time in age.
people forget it takes more than one generation to breed success. and these family's kids are ahead of a lot of us by a lot. they're generations ahead in terms of monetary power. but in a quick 1-2 generations we can MENTALLY CONVERT their kids to be more canadian. slowly, every generation. slowly coverting, until they're just as "canadian" as we are.
but that won't happen unless we let them in, and they won't be more canadian if we're assholes to them.
one day when their kids or kids kids go back to china, they'll realise they're more canadian than chinese.
in fact a lot of old chinese immigrants here over the course of 25-30 years have become more canadian than they were when they were first here. they would rather live here than go back to asia. canada has softened them. their values have been slowly skewed over to our side. yeah it took 25-30 years for it to happen, but so what? they're old, like i said, old habits die hard.
focus on their kids. not them.
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Originally Posted by EvoFire Some might say its racist, but is it racist when you are of the same culture? I'm Chinese myself and I can't stand some of this snobbiness and nose in air attitude from some of these people. |
are you chinese of culture or ethnicity. there's a difference.
born here, and i've always called myself chinese canadian. and regarded myself as pretty asian.
until i went and explored mainland china. then i realised, i am not fucking chinese at all.
it would be like a fuckin surrey jack being all fuckin indian pryde... then going to india and realising, the locals have nothing in fucking common with him. he is the least thing that is indian in india lol.
you're of canadian culture. but your DNA is asian. that's about it.
like a fuckin nikka saying he's african therefore he can hate on blacks from africa. lol bullshit.
you're as chinese as a black guy from the bronx is african.
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Originally Posted by EvoFire There are a lot of great Chinese immigrants, but this crowd that comes in through this program is not the crowd that we want to see. On top of that, the "more taxes" argument does have holes in them. These new immigrants don't necessarily spend all their time here. If anything they still spend most of their time and money back in China, they don't generate any value for the economy. |
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp Again who is to they will spend or even stay in Canada? Can you be 100% sure they will not stay in China and make money there while leaving their family here using our social programs for free because the husband is the one who makes the money and since the wife don't work therefore she doesn't pay income tax so is consider as low income which means they don't have to pay for health care etc etc..... How about the husband move all his families here and the divorce his wife thus leaving us tax payers to foot the bill for his wife and his children and his parents but in reality he is still giving them money to use? |
are you two SURE of this?
who cares if they spend 80% of their time in china? i'm sure them or some extension of them (kids, wife etc) will spend at least 100k a year here.
and if they use our social programs???
you don't think that the rich wife and kids spend more than 100k a year? isn't that contributing more to the social programs than you guys are? i'm pretty sure the taxes they pay alone each year just in luxury goods covers more than themselves. i'm sure if we took them out of the equation, the social programs would be hurt monetarily more than if we removed equal number of normal canadians.
the second example where the man "divorces" his wife. wife gets social help but the man is still secretly footing the bill... that's a complex issue. you don't want canada to become like the fucking USA with its billion pages of RIDICULOUS tax laws.
it's a "problem" we're gonna have to just deal with. it is the cost of doing business you can say. the cost of accepting immigrants. we cannot control money outside our nation... i don't know the solution.. but the solution isn't to block the immigrants or to make our laws crazy like americans.
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp What have I done? Well at least I learn to speak English instead of complaining that people SHOULD speak Chinese because I refuse to even try to learn a bit of English to get by. |
that's a pretty weak argument dude. their inability to learn chinese is just the same as the whitest boys inability to grasp chinese.
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp Oh and Ulic having money doesn't mean they are a better class then anyone else. True billionaire also have class and certainly wouldn't spit on the ground and go around acting like a bunch of assholes. Instead of complaining the true billionaires would actually think of other ways to be become Canadian citizen by using other investment programs that we offer. |
what's a true billionaire?! what are "billionaires" supposed to act like? what are "rich" people SUPPOSED to act like?
flip it around, what are you "poor" people supposed to act like? like a buncha degenerates looking for handouts?
it's just a idealistic thought you have in your head man. billionaires LITERALLY have more ability to act whatever way they want than you do. They have more means of getting away with it. that's all it comes down to man.
no money can't buy you class, that's very obvious. even in cases like justin beiber and kanye west or britney spears.
you're assuming billionaires SHOULD just find another way cuz they have the money to right? yeah they are, and the first way they naturally thought of is to bitch about it. cuz bitching works a lot of the time. i AM SURE they are finding other ways as we speak. they're not stupid.
they're not better in class than everyone else. but they have more immediate pragmatic potential... and on a board full of people that are not very good at abstract theoretical interpretations... and full of people that like pragmatic application of "use" in the "here and now", like tools and cars and sports... one would think, they would know the power of money... cuz really hey, the person with money can do whatever mods and buy whatever cars they want right? IMMEDIATE USE.
very ironic because when the masses have to discuss theoretical values, they usually dismiss it as useless and not pragmatic enough.
but when faced with money owned by people they "don't like"... suddenly pragmatic use is dismissed and they all rush to their theoretical values they call "the canadian way"... and rational or not, they wanna keep it that way... yeah.. ok..
just twisting logic to the way you wanna make it work, and escaping to ambiguity when logic can't be twisted.
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp Oh and I am more Canadian because I actually speak English, can sing the national anthem, watch hockey and at the every least can name all the provinces and territories of Canada. |
I'm canadian born. I hardly know the lyrics to our anthem. I don't give a FLYING FUCK about HOCKEY. and I could care less about all the names of the provinces and territories in canada. i only know it cuz i was forced to learn that shit in school. if they didn't force it onto me, i wouldn't of even cared.
does that make me less canadian than you?
drop the english speaking argument. that's very narrow minded. the world consists of more than just canada.
i speak english far better than i do chinese. my chinese is pathetic and i've been learning it for over 25 years.
you know why i wish i spoke better chinese now? listen to this:
when I go travelling around the world I fucking feel pathetic when I get involved in a mixed group of different nationals, and i feel like im lagging behind cuz you'd expect a group of mixed nationals to just fuckign speak english BUT THEY DONT.
I was once with a german national, swiss national, and taiwanese national... and i represented canada.
guess what... the german could only speak broken english, fairly well mandarin, and german. the swiss national could only speak chinese, german and french, and the taiwanese national could speak french and chinese... guess what language we had to use to communicate?
more and more when I travel, i find this to be the case. the common language is NOT english. and if it is, it's very broken.
a lot of north americans are regarded as not very well travelled or cultured to the global eyes. our ego of being world "leaders" has blinded us in some aspects.
i don't know about you, but i'd rather keep up with the world than keep up with one single country.
the globe, to me, will always be more important than any smaller entity.
there might not be a lot of us globalists in every city or country, but globally combined we make up a lot of people.
we work toward making the earth a smaller place. a more global approach. the whole... while other people are bickering over whos culture is better, whos religion is better. chaotic redundant infighting within nations and between nations... what a fucking waste of time and energy.
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Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp Of that ridiculously huge post you wrote, this is the only real point that was made. |
you missed a lot of other points. the only point of being "rightfully canadian" is that there's actually no fucking actual use.
like i said, i'm "rightfully canadian", but i am far from what you would call a "typical canadian".
the only use my canadian citizenship has is, canada has to come rescue me cuz really, i don't belong anywhere else. canada gave birth to me. that's about it.
i am not better than an immigrant. i am not better than a permanent resident. The only reason i can get away with more shit in canada is cuz canada has no where to extradite me to. THATS MY ONLY "RIGHT" that stands out vs the adopted citizens of canada. i have no other fucking home. u cant kick me out no matter how bad i am.
and yes, my posts are stupid long. and they will only get longer lol. i admit i am not the most adept at concise messages. but i am able to convey things in layman's terms so maximum audience can potentially understand my perspective.