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Old 08-29-2014, 11:37 AM   #126
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It's my right to walk down the sidewalk in Compton at night wearing a ten thousand dollar chain around my neck, that doesn't make it a good idea.

I'm sure there's a Waffle House where you won't get your ass kicked at, why go to the one where you will? Because they have the right to? Great, look how that turned out.
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:04 PM   #127
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Yes, I read the article. How would I know they had a concealed weapon if I didn't? You didn't mention that in your post.

So war veterans have a good reason to carry a concealed weapon? Where's the war? Oh right, on another continent. Anyone that carries a concealed weapon is an idiot.

It says that tensions were high and they were warned not to go in and did so anyways. Yes, they have the right to be there. There's no reason for them not to be allowed in the waffle house but was it a good idea? Did they HAVE to get waffles there? This entire confrontation could've been avoided if they didn't go looking for trouble. And even after they went in, they could've avoided an argument by leaving once they realized the other patrons were hostile.

They had choices and they made the wrong ones. Plus, doesn't this go both ways? We don't know any of the details. We don't know if those guys went in and started the argument or flashed the guns. Like you said with the Michael Brown incident, you don't know the details. For all we know, they might've yelled "NIGGERS!" and got beat up for good reason.

A man with a gun when I don't have one is a threat. A man without a gun when I have one is not.

If you told me the same thing happened to two black guys, I would've said they brought it on themselves. Why put yourself in situations where you know something bad is going to happen? You don't see me walking around the DTES yelling "I'M RICH, BEEYAAATCH!"
Umm.. It's the United States, it it's legal for them to carry with a licence.

Also, since you say it's the guys fault for wanting to eat where ever he wanted and not being careful, I'm glad you can see why Michael Brown shouldn't have charged at the officer, if he didn't want to die, he shouldn't have charged at him.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:35 PM   #128
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I'm well aware it's legal but carrying a concealed firearm just tells me that someone is a moron. There is no situation I can think of where that is a good idea and the simple act of having it on you puts you in situations like this one. Would those two morons have felt safe going into the waffle house without their straps?

That's just second amendment American bullshit. OH WE NEED OUR GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES! From what? There's zero wars happening on American soil. Anyone that carries a gun other than police officers or security or something is a certified idiot. It's this attitude that contributes to America having the highest rate of gun violence anywhere.

And you said so yourself, you have no idea what happened with Michael Brown. How do you know he charged at the officer apart from hearsay? But we can be pretty damn sure these guys went into a waffle house that they were warned not to go into and do so wearing a weapon.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:01 PM   #129
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I'm well aware it's legal but carrying a concealed firearm just tells me that someone is a moron. There is no situation I can think of where that is a good idea and the simple act of having it on you puts you in situations like this one. Would those two morons have felt safe going into the waffle house without their straps?

That's just second amendment American bullshit. OH WE NEED OUR GUNS TO PROTECT OURSELVES! From what? There's zero wars happening on American soil. Anyone that carries a gun other than police officers or security or something is a certified idiot. It's this attitude that contributes to America having the highest rate of gun violence anywhere.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:04 PM   #130
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Ronin, I give you props, you have been patient as hell. You are arguing with someone who is pretty much trolling you from what I can see here.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:32 PM   #131
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Thanks.

When I worked retail, we were told to comply with anyone that was going to rob us. Honestly, I'd comply anyways even if they fired me after because there damn well is no way I'm dying for London Drugs. Those guys weren't interested in hurting anyone. They wanted money. Comply and you're safe. Who cares about other people's money?

Yes, that old man with the puny gun scared off two guys but for every time this has happened, there are probably 9 other incidents where that old man is lying there dead because dammit, he fires like 6 times and neither one of the suspects is incapacitated or dead. If those two guys were real criminals and not two idiots I suspect are carrying fake guns...then that old man would be dead because he chose to put his life in danger.

See? Stupid.

The only time a gun might be justified is if a person's primary goal is to kill you. Otherwise, people have nothing to gain from killing you rather than just taking your money or car or whatever. In all those situations, just give them what they want...

AND THEN PLOT VENGEANCE AFTER.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:42 PM   #132
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Ronin, I give you props, you have been patient as hell. You are arguing with someone who is pretty much trolling you from what I can see here.
So this is what it's come down to...

"someone disagrees with me, what a troll".

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Old 08-29-2014, 10:05 PM   #133
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Thanks.

When I worked retail, we were told to comply with anyone that was going to rob us. Honestly, I'd comply anyways even if they fired me after because there damn well is no way I'm dying for London Drugs. Those guys weren't interested in hurting anyone. They wanted money. Comply and you're safe. Who cares about other people's money?

Yes, that old man with the puny gun scared off two guys but for every time this has happened, there are probably 9 other incidents where that old man is lying there dead because dammit, he fires like 6 times and neither one of the suspects is incapacitated or dead. If those two guys were real criminals and not two idiots I suspect are carrying fake guns...then that old man would be dead because he chose to put his life in danger.

See? Stupid.

The only time a gun might be justified is if a person's primary goal is to kill you. Otherwise, people have nothing to gain from killing you rather than just taking your money or car or whatever. In all those situations, just give them what they want...

AND THEN PLOT VENGEANCE AFTER.
Now the video above may not be the best example as the guy conceal carrying did "jump" to pull out his gun, but I believe the underlying reason when someone would want to conceal carry is that they believe they have the right not to be victimized or be able to defend themselves when they feel their lives are at risk.

Yes, guys who rob places are ultimately there to get money. And while it is best for people to just follow direction, there will also be other variables that come into play. What if some dumbass wants to play hero and start fighting the robbers (without a gun). What if an alarm gets triggered staff and the police end up surrounding the place? I don't know if I'm watching too many movies but now you have what was a simple robbery that turned into a possible hostage situation where the robbers are now firing and killing people; something they weren't planning on doing to begin with. If this were to happen, i'd think there would be some people who are willing to risk their lives to save themselves/others rather than sitting back and hoping for the best. In this instance, why not have the best tool you can get (a gun) to defend yourself and not say a chair?

The bottom line is that real violent criminals will also have guns and you never know what will happen. Police are not always there when you need them at that exact time, so why not have the best tool you can have to maximize your chances when these rare instances do occur.

Topics like these are never black and white. There will be intelligent people who would know when it is best to pull out their gun if they need to, but there will also be idiots who won't. While I most likely will not conceal carry if I had the choice, but I can understand how others may, especially if they live in a bad part of the city.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:40 PM   #134
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There are so many more situations where you're likely to put yourself in danger having a gun than situations where a gun will save your life. I don't personally know anyone that was ever in a bank robbery where that would happen. Maybe because Canada but I don't know of anyone in my life where a gun would have saved their life. It's like being scared of flying because you're afraid the plane might crash when statistics say you're in much more danger in a car than in a plane. The chances of you hurting yourself with a gun are far greater than the chances you'll find a gun useful.

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Old 08-29-2014, 11:48 PM   #135
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Based on how the police officer lived his life I wouldn't be surprised if he was a raciest and shot him because he was black.

Darren Wilsonís first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities


FERGUSON, Mo. ó The small city of Jennings, Mo., had a police department so troubled, and with so much tension between white officers and black residents, that the city council finally decided to disband it. Everyone in the Jennings police department was fired. New officers were brought in to create a credible department from scratch.

That was three years ago. One of the officers who worked in that department, and lost his job along with everyone else, was a young man named Darren Wilson.

Darren Wilson?s first job was on a troubled police force disbanded by authorities - The Washington Post
Were there ever any allegations filed against him or was he just fired because they were firing everybody?

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Now the video above may not be the best example as the guy conceal carrying did "jump" to pull out his gun, but I believe the underlying reason when someone would want to conceal carry is that they believe they have the right not to be victimized or be able to defend themselves when they feel their lives are at risk.

Yes, guys who rob places are ultimately there to get money. And while it is best for people to just follow direction, there will also be other variables that come into play. What if some dumbass wants to play hero and start fighting the robbers (without a gun). What if an alarm gets triggered staff and the police end up surrounding the place? I don't know if I'm watching too many movies but now you have what was a simple robbery that turned into a possible hostage situation where the robbers are now firing and killing people; something they weren't planning on doing to begin with. If this were to happen, i'd think there would be some people who are willing to risk their lives to save themselves/others rather than sitting back and hoping for the best. In this instance, why not have the best tool you can get (a gun) to defend yourself and not say a chair?

The bottom line is that real violent criminals will also have guns and you never know what will happen. Police are not always there when you need them at that exact time, so why not have the best tool you can have to maximize your chances when these rare instances do occur.

Topics like these are never black and white. There will be intelligent people who would know when it is best to pull out their gun if they need to, but there will also be idiots who won't. While I most likely will not conceal carry if I had the choice, but I can understand how others may, especially if they live in a bad part of the city.
Because the stupid gun-toting idiots make things worse way more often than they help. The US is proof of that, pull up the per-capita stats and they have a shitload more guns than anyone else and they shoot each other a shitload more than anyone else, they themselves are the biggest proof that their fucked up mindset doesn't work at all.

And if you think having a gun will help you because bad guys have guns, consider this: the bad guys are the only ones that know things are about to go sideways, nobody else has a fucking clue what's about to happen. So no matter what kind of weapon you have on you, it doesn't matter because the bad guys have the element of surprise. Now if they're robbing a bank in a country where nobody carries a gun, they know that they can get in, get the (insured, so there's no reason to risk your neck) money that they want, and get out. Now if the same thing happens in a country where everyone carried a gun, and what do yo think the robbers are going to do? They're going to be much more likely to kill people while they have the advantage and eliminate any risk of some idiot trying to be a hero.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:25 AM   #136
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So this is what it's come down to...

"someone disagrees with me, what a troll".

Being called a troll is how people try and silence opposing views online
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:28 AM   #137
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Maybe because Canada but I don't know of anyone in my life where a gun would have saved their life.
Yes but remember the term "Southern hospitality"?

From what I was told, it originates from their propensity to shoot anyone who appeared like trouble. If you were polite and peaceful, people would welcome you like one of their own.

I will say this, perhaps guns have saved no one, ever.

But I will also say this:

I guarantee that the knowledge that homeowners probably own guns and know how to use them has definitely prevented robberies, rapes and murders.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:00 AM   #138
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There are so many more situations where you're likely to put yourself in danger having a gun than situations where a gun will save your life.
Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #139
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Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.
Er, Ronin's actually correct about that...
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Old 08-30-2014, 09:46 AM   #140
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Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.
I said this exact same thing to you TWICE in this thread but you decided it was irrelevant and now you're spitting that same line to other people? LOL hypocritical much?

Your feelings of whether Brown was a good guy or a bad guy, a trouble maker or not, a thief or honest abe will not be used as evidence in court. And Brown's actions prior to the confrontation with the officer won't be used as evidence in court either (contrary to what you believe.)
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:44 AM   #141
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Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.
I feel in terms of statistics.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:15 PM   #142
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McKown had done a lot of training for this exact type of situation and look what happened to him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting
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During the course of the shooting, Brendan (Dan) McKown, a legally armed citizen, intervened. McKown drew his 9mm CZ pistol and verbally commanded Maldonado to put down his gun. Maldonado's response was to fire on McKown, striking him once in the leg and four times in the torso, damaging McKown's spine and leaving him paralyzed. In addition to McKown, five other people were shot but not seriously injured, and a seventh person received a non-gunshot injury. At least one other person in the mall at the time also pulled a gun on Maldonado, but did not fire for fear of hitting innocent bystanders.
Having a gun really helped him.

There were armed civilians at Columbine and the Gabrielle Gifford Tuscan shootings and look at those outcomes.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:34 PM   #143
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Er, Ronin's actually correct about that...
He's not. At least not according to statistics here in the states.

Keep in mind that hand guns are banned in Chicago.. and look at how helpful that is.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:36 PM   #144
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McKown had done a lot of training for this exact type of situation and look what happened to him.

Tacoma Mall shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Having a gun really helped him.

There were armed civilians at Columbine and the Gabrielle Gifford Tuscan shootings and look at those outcomes.
You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.
Shootings all day every day.
Do I have to pull up homicides by firearms for the Chicago area for you to prove my point?
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:37 PM   #145
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I feel in terms of statistics.
And yet you have none to show.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:52 PM   #146
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You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.
Shootings all day every day.
Do I have to pull up homicides by firearms for the Chicago area for you to prove my point?
Guess what fireworks are banned in Nanaimo but every Halloween people still light them off. How because they just have to go 5 minutes out of town to get them. Also Firearms are not banned in Chicago. Get you facts straight before you post. Google helps.
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You have to nit pick at things to get your point across.

Here's my example... firearms are banned in Chicago.
Da fuq is wrong with you?? I thought you're FROM Chicago. You would always talk about how you have first-hand experience of gun violence and the crime situation in Illinois and you come up with something as dumb as "guns are banned in Chicago??"

It took me ONE WEEK living in the states to realize that firearm possession is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT of every American citizen. So how the fuq would they be able to ban firearms in Chicago?? ANY ban of firearm possession in the United States would be a constitutional infringement and therefore impossible to impose.

LOL when you're trying to portray a point of view, an opinion, a personal experience etc, it would be wise not to make up shit that people can so easily call you out on. LOL guns banned + America loll. Get outta town!
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:36 AM   #148
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Please.. stop.

Your feelings don't count as evidence or data.
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He's not. At least not according to statistics here in the states.

Keep in mind that hand guns are banned in Chicago.. and look at how helpful that is.
Unlike your "Guns are banned in Chicago" bullshit, Ronin's statement re: being more likely to injure yourself with a firearm than to protect yourself from harm is backed up by statistical data. It's very simple:

Let's take a look at firearm suicide and self-inflicted injuries for example. Full-disclosure, I am looking at data from 2011 and I am doing so because that's what I found first:

The number of suicide deaths in America were: 39,518.
Out of this total number of suicide deaths, 19,900 were self-inflicted by a firearm.

In that same year, there were 16,238 homicides.
Out of this total number of homicides, 11,068 were firearm homicides.

In a report released in 2013 by the Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), accidental discharge of a firearm was ranked #100 in top causes of death in America. In this same report, intentional self-harm (or suicide) by discharge of firearm was ranked #105 in top leading causes of death in America. In this SAME report, assault (homicide) by discharge of firearm was ranked #107 in the leading causes of death in America.

In the American Journal of Epidemiology, data from the US mortality follow-back survey was collected and researchers came to the following conclusions:

- Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home.
- They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death.
- The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home.
- Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

These are facts and stats extracted from scholarly articles and journals. You can't make shit like this up. Yes, it is late and I may be quickly breezing through these articles rather than taking my time to fully grasp what they're saying in their entirety, but I feel like I've relayed a pretty accurate portrayal of these stats and studies.

I frankly don't care about the current gun situation in America because "the people" of America have decided they would rather live with a Constitution that protects their right to have a firearm than to not. However, I feel the need to get involved with this gun debate fiasco simply because of the numerous ignorant and outlandish things you have said and accused other people of saying.

Once again, Ronin wasn't pulling random shit out of his ass and spitting it out in a thread here; rather he was providing us with a simple, brief fact that a person is more likely to die from a self-inflicted gun injury than they are to protect themselves from someone who is prepared to assault them with a gun.

Good day, sir.
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just google conceal carry shootings maybe add in 'accident' or 'murders' and you'll get enough results showcasing conceal weapon carriers killing bystanders thanks to their skills or you'll get results of mass shooters who were conceal carry license holders and that should shut you up about using the 'they save lives' argument
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:19 AM   #150
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