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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
If the cop in fact shot the kid while he was surrendering, then regardless of what Michael Brown did, that's not right. If the cops want people to comply with arrest and not resist, they have to have the restraint not to play executioner just because they can.
However, does it change everything if Michael Brown robbed that store? Well, that means he isn't the nice kid everyone says he is. If the cop was trying to stop him as a link to the robbery and he resisted? That changes all the perspectives on this case.
I don't care if he stole $50 worth of cigars or $5000, it doesn't justify shooting him.
I also can't take any sympathy for an officer who fires from inside his vehicle at an unarmed person as I really don't see how his life is in enough danger. Tazing? Yes. Pepper spray? Yes. Close range gunfire?
Supposedly he was reaching for the officers gun which resulted in the shooting. The officer mentioned also has no prior misconduct reports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic!
Why would they buy camouflage in the first place they are cops. Only time you need camouflage is when you want to sneak up on something.
I have a feeling it's military surplus and they wear it because it looks cool.
Not everything they do is in an urban environment, maybe you've never left downtown but in some areas there are trees and shit that are still within their jurisdiction where they could potentially have to be somewhat stealthy. Do you want them buying 18 different uniforms for every possible occasion?
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
I usually ignore police custody deaths because 99% of the time the victim did something to provoke it.
Havn't we learned...do not resist.
You do not give officers one bit of an excuse to use lethal force. Put your head down and hands behind your back. You'll have your day in court.
One side of the story is the 2 guys were beating up on the cop trying to grab his gun and the cop shot them
The other side of the story is the cop told the 2 kids to move and as they were walking away complying, with their hands up, the cop shot Brown.
Somewhere in the middle is the truth. What we know is the cop was taken to hospital for treatment for the assault, and the kid robbed a store like a tough guy earlier.
Perhaps the guys were beating up on the cop, when the cop pulled his gun to shoot in self defense, the kid quickly backed off as if to surrender but it was too late
Edited for the link: I missed the above link and wanted to mention that the police officer in question did not know at the time that Brown was a robbery suspect. He had stopped him from jaywalking.
If this ever goes to court, this will be quit a challenge for both sides bringing in all the different sources of evidence.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar
One side of the story is the 2 guys were beating up on the cop trying to grab his gun and the cop shot them
The other side of the story is the cop told the 2 kids to move and as they were walking away complying, with their hands up, the cop shot Brown.
Somewhere in the middle is the truth. What we know is the cop was taken to hospital for treatment for the assault, and the kid robbed a store like a tough guy earlier.
Perhaps the guys were beating up on the cop, when the cop pulled his gun to shoot in self defense, the kid quickly backed off as if to surrender but it was too late
Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.
We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.
Well, that's that then. The cop just stopped him because he's black rather than him being a robbery suspect?
C'mon, 'Murica.
He stopped him because he was walking in the middle of the road fucking up traffic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capt_slo
Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.
We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.
A lot of 'murica is as bad if not worse than a war-torn country right now. While being assaulted and having someone grab for your gun, in the milliseconds you have to react, do you really think many people can calm down fully and assess the risks involved in leaving the person who assaulted you still capable of harming you when you have no idea what weapons he may have?
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question.
THIS, should be the quote of the day. A lot of inner city neighbourhoods probably have a higher death rate, higher crime rate, etc than a war torn country like Iraq.
That's EXACTLY the problem here, the ghettos of America are some of the shittiest places to live in the world. We have gang-warfare in Vancouver that we read about on the news all the time but it's nothing even close to what happens out there. Lack of resources, racial tensions amongst the civilian population and the government/authority officials, all lead to quite the havoc of a scene.
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My point re: battlefield is more to do with the lack of a weapon or combatant position of Mike Brown. This wasn't a firefight. This wasn't a group fight or a group of people rushing the officer. I am well aware of the absolute shithole conditions present in urban USA. The cop was 1 on 1 since the other guy bailed upon first shot. Worst case has him 1 vs 2: gun against fists.
Accounts have the victim running away, shot in the back and then turning to surrender. Not taking up a weapon or a stance to retaliate physically. If those accounts are shown to be false I'll consider the cop's excuse of fear.
Crime rates in Ferguson have been declining steadily in recent years and are on par with average statistics in the country. 2 recorded murders in 2012 - so 9.4/100,000 people. It is not Detroit or Camden or even Chicago.
We're talking about an unarmed jaywalker who was shot in the back as he ran away after he punched a cop in a struggle. Not a group of hardened gangbangers with mac 10's.
Not everything they do is in an urban environment, maybe you've never left downtown but in some areas there are trees and shit that are still within their jurisdiction where they could potentially have to be somewhat stealthy. Do you want them buying 18 different uniforms for every possible occasion?
I live on Vancouver Island I am surrounded by tree's. If they want to be stealthy why are they wearing Blue PB vests with the word Police written in big white letters? It just looks stupid and one scares and upsets the average person.
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We're talking about an unarmed jaywalker who was shot in the back as he ran away after he punched a cop in a struggle. Not a group of hardened gangbangers with mac 10's.
I fully agree with your conclusion just not your examples and google'd statistics. The hood is a horrible place to be in for those living, working and commuting through it. St. Louis, MO is a shit hole no question about it is riddled with crime.
Sonick is a genius. I won't go into detail what's so great about his post. But it's damn good!
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Here's the thing with cops, it's not supposed to be "too late" to surrender. You've got one or two bullets in you, you realize you were an idiot and you yell "I surrender" and throw your hands up.
We're not talking about a battlefield in a war torn country, this is middle 'Murica in question. That cop has the responsibility to calm his ass down and not pump more rounds into a suspect who has allegedly moved from aggressive to submissive.
Lets build a hypothetical scenario based on the unconfirmed maybes of one side of the story:
1: A guy is beating the shit out of a cop and trying to take his gun.
2: Cop pulls his gun and shoots the guy in self defense.
3: Guy stops fighting and starts trying to run away.
4: Cop finishes his training and puts the guy down.
At step 1, the guy establishes himself as a serious and imminent threat to the life of the cop, and perhaps the lives of people around. Cop has to make a choice at that point and follow it.
Every time there is a police shooting we hear explicitly how they are trained that IF you pull your weapon to shoot, you shoot to kill, and make sure the guy you're shooting at is down and can't continue doing whatever it was to make you shoot. At step 3, obviously the guy getting shot is going to try to run away from getting shot. He has already established he is a significant risk, and there is no way to know without a doubt that he wont try to re-attack the cop.
I dont really understand how urban youths talk, or use twitter, but from what Ive seen posted from a few witnesses, most of them didnt see the first couple shots, and only saw the last 5 or so shots as the guy was running away.
Lets use our heads here for a minute. Does anyone REALLY think the cop cold heartedly blasted away the kid in the middle of the street in broad day light like some movie villain? Or is that more of a cool story talking in absolutes?
Everyone, especially black people, and young people, always look for a cause to get behind a hate on cops. And their witness accounts are often skewed by emotion and dramatization. Most of the witnesses to this shooting already hate cops.
Or is it perhaps more likely that something actually went down to result in the shooting?
This isnt as clear cut as the NYPD choking the fat guy to death. That one was some bullshit.
Anyone who thinks this single isolated incident is some kind of universal proof of white cops having a systemic disregard for black human life is as ridiculous as CiC.
If the cop broke the law, I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. Everyone else should just go home.
Anyone who thinks this single isolated incident is some kind of universal proof of white cops having a systemic disregard for black human life is as ridiculous as CiC.
If the cop broke the law, I hope he gets the punishment he deserves. Everyone else should just go home.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you, but remember that cop in tsawwassen that off duty was drunk and killed a kid, he basically got a spank on the backside and nothing more. A mere mortal would have been done with manslaughter.
Cops don't face the same justice as the rest of us. They are just a "legal" gang. None of us agree with it, but that's life.
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