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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 11-24-2014, 01:00 AM   #26
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Can't speak to this case since we don't really know what happened especially with a lack of video, for all we know the police may have been justified with this shooting but the bigger problem is that the perception of police over the last decade hasn't been a good one and its the fault of the police for it.

just 1 of a plethora of examples of how european officers deal with weapon wielding suspects out in the open (erratic machete wielding man attacking officers)


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The stand-off eventually ends when more than 30 officers with riot shields overwhelmed and arrested him.
A Metropolitan police spokesman said: "The man was detained under the Mental Health Act and taken to a secure medical facility where he remains."
Video: Police tackle machete wielding man with wheelie bin - Telegraph

Albeit a different situation (locked in his home) but in Iceland an officer was even shot in the face and another in the hand before they fired on a shotgun wielding individual marking the 1st time an officer killed someone in Icelands history. They then apologized for it on national tv instead of saying they did nothing wrong

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashr...the-first-time

we've seen tons of videos/stories like these over the years of officers going above and beyond to preserve the life of the suspect, a lot of them ended up in the NSFW thread

It'd be nice if Canadian officers valued life again like they used to. but for the last 10-13 years they've seemingly become trigger happy and would rather shoot someone than risk a bruising.

If you want to fail and say 'that's not true, blah blah blah' go ahead, but you can't deny that that's the perception out there and ultimately it's their fault that the perception exists. Their public image has gone to shits and stories like these of a 2x4 wielding old man being shot to death doesn't help
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:04 AM   #27
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Do beanbag gun rank lower or higher than the taser in terms of use of force?

What is the one step lower than the gun?

If the suspect was waving the 2x4 but in one spot, and the beanbag and taser didnt work, what would've been the 'by the book' procedure to handle the situation? wait him out? kill him? use a dog?
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:11 AM   #28
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that 2x4 must have been modified to warrant getting shot

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Old 11-24-2014, 06:51 AM   #29
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I don't know the whole situation but if there was more than one officer present id like to think this situation could have went down without killing him if it was in fact a 2x4
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:03 AM   #30
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Very simply a 2x4 is a weapon if the subject was wielding it in an aggressive manner. Be it a 2x4, baseball bat, golf club or a metal pipe, getting hit by one in the head could result in a severe head injury and be lethal.

If the subject was swinging that at an officer or advancing towards the officer with the 2x4 in an aggressive manner (swinging it/or in a stance that indicated he was going to attempt to hit the officer), the shooting was clean and use of lethal force justified.

If the subject was holding the 2x4 in a passive manner and not advancing towards the officer, then the shooting was not justified.
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Old 11-24-2014, 07:29 AM   #31
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:24 AM   #32
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A hard whack by a 2x4 let alone any other reasonably solid thing in the head can land anyone in a concussion or leave brain damage.

Don't see why people are criticising the police. If I repeatedly told some dude to stop and he wouldn't even after some bean bag rounds, I sure as hell ain't going to get close. It's a safety issue as well as protocol I'd assume.
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Old 11-24-2014, 08:40 AM   #33
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Also police are train to shoot at the body. Body is a bigger target to hit VS a hand or a leg.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:40 AM   #34
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Remember that police aren't just protecting themselves, they have a duty to protect the public at large. Dude could just as easily turn and bolt and if he escapes the cops, he could seriously injure or kill some innocent somewhere else. Their job is to stop him, period.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:50 AM   #35
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Remember that police aren't just protecting themselves, they have a duty to protect the public at large. Dude could just as easily turn and bolt and if he escapes the cops, he could seriously injure or kill some innocent somewhere else. Their job is to stop him, period.
that happens and everyone screams "Why didn't the cops shoot him when they had a chance!"
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:51 AM   #36
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This one time, in a lacrosse game, a guy tried to lumberjack me. I believed he was a risk to the publics safety and my own, so I thought about shooting him. Oh no wait, I didn't because that would be fucking retarded.
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Old 11-24-2014, 09:56 AM   #37
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Um.. ya. A lacrosse game is not equivalent to a 2x4 being used as a weapon against police in a public street.

And at first I thought you were going to say band camp.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:01 AM   #38
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Um.. ya. A lacrosse game is not equivalent to a 2x4 being used as a weapon against police in a public street.

And at first I thought you were going to say band camp.
Well, this one time at band camp... This girl and her flute..

I understand i'm splitting hairs but if all it takes is a piece of wood being swung at you to think you're going to die... Yes I wasn't there and nobody knows the real story behind any of it, so maybe it was justified. But it's still a fucking 2x4 hahaha.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:21 AM   #39
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^it's not what it is, it's the intent

you could kill someone with just about anything if you were determined to do so
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:44 AM   #40
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This one time, in a lacrosse game, a guy tried to lumberjack me. I believed he was a risk to the publics safety and my own, so I thought about shooting him. Oh no wait, I didn't because that would be fucking retarded.
What if you were an officer in this situation and he whacked you with his 2x4 with just enough time to be able to grab your gun and shoot you dead.

Plan for the worst, if some psychos waving around a 2x4 in public I'd question his/her mental health, it's different than if a guy came at me with a 2x4 because he has a personal grudge, or in a fucking lacrosse game.
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Old 11-24-2014, 10:58 AM   #41
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If it was one cop dealing with the situation I can see the use of lethal force because you have no one to back you up if shit goes sideways. If you have a crew of 3 or more officers on hand (I don't know how many were there in this particular situation) I'd like to think they can get a 2x4 away from a guy without using lethal force.

You're trained officers with multiple weapons at your disposal. Figure this shit out. No one said being a cop isn't a dangerous job.
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Old 11-24-2014, 12:35 PM   #42
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just 1 of a plethora of examples of how european officers deal with weapon wielding suspects out in the open (erratic machete wielding man attacking officers)

The worst part of watching that video was the idiot's lousy job of filming the incident. If you have such a great vantage point, do a better job. Get your dumb friend to draw the blinds open on the other window. After all that, he misses the best part.
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:38 PM   #43
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If it was one cop dealing with the situation I can see the use of lethal force because you have no one to back you up if shit goes sideways. If you have a crew of 3 or more officers on hand (I don't know how many were there in this particular situation) I'd like to think they can get a 2x4 away from a guy without using lethal force.

You're trained officers with multiple weapons at your disposal. Figure this shit out. No one said being a cop isn't a dangerous job.
This. If all the guy has is a 2x4, there must be at least a dozen different ways several officers can subdue him without shooting him. Be creative. The chance of the officers getting seriously injured is slim.
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:23 PM   #44
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here's an article with a video that someone captured. The video doesn't really show what happened though. Things witnesses are saying does shed some light.

Witness video captures moment Vancouver police open fire on man - British Columbia - CBC News

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"A police car pulled up and police started asking the man to come, and to come towards them across the crosswalk and to put down the stick, and right when they say put down the stick they opened fire on him,"
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:44 PM   #45
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Here comes the 2x4 bans.....

For those who think it was to much force....guess you needed to be there.
For those who think this should not have happened, your right the idiot should not have been waving a 2x4 around in the middle of the street.

Common sense: don't wave or display something that could be used in a harmful manner around any law enforcement officers unless you wish to be shot.
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:50 PM   #46
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Yeah except common sense doesn't really register with someone who's not right in the head does it?

Oh well one less troubled person in the world right?
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:56 PM   #47
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The way I think about it is...this was easily avoidable by not swinging a 2x4 around and by putting that shit down when the cops tell you to.

How do you stay alive? By complying with the police. You can chew them out or sue them later but right now, they have guns and you don't have bulletproof skin so the goal is to stay the fuck alive. It doesn't matter whether the police were right or wrong in this situation...all that should be on your mind is not getting you ass shot and you do that by going "Yes, officer." rather than "FUCK THE POLICE! THIS IS POLICE BRUTALITY!!".

Of course, if there are mental issues involved then that's another story because the guy isn't in control of himself but for the most part, lots of this shit is probably preventable if people followed Chris Rock's advice.
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Old 11-24-2014, 06:03 PM   #48
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I can't believe we have the technology to send my penis to hundreds of women in an hour via text, snap chat, etc etc yet society has not developed a way to restrain unstable people easily.

Maybe a fucking foam-glue cannon? A net gun?


Fuck 3-4 brutes with 4 foot long rubber dildos could have just beat that crazy down
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Old 11-24-2014, 06:05 PM   #49
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The way I think about it is...this was easily avoidable by not swinging a 2x4 around and by putting that shit down when the cops tell you to.

How do you stay alive? By complying with the police. You can chew them out or sue them later but right now, they have guns and you don't have bulletproof skin so the goal is to stay the fuck alive. It doesn't matter whether the police were right or wrong in this situation...all that should be on your mind is not getting you ass shot and you do that by going "Yes, officer." rather than "FUCK THE POLICE! THIS IS POLICE BRUTALITY!!".

Of course, if there are mental issues involved then that's another story because the guy isn't in control of himself but for the most part, lots of this shit is probably preventable if people followed Chris Rock's advice.

Well chances are someone who's wildly swinging a 2x4 in public for no good reason isn't in the right frame of mind to just stop and go "yes officer whatever you say". It looks like there were 3 cops on scene around his body in that video, so like I said before, they can't MacGyver some shit up and take him down without shooting him?

We'll give you and a couple of your buddies some iron rods and a dude with a 2x4, you're telling me you guys wouldn't be able to get that handled without having to kill him? These are trained adults.

I'm all for cops taking lethal action when there's a legit threat to their lives but these days the lines seem to be getting blurred. Now it's just "well he had something in his hands thats capable of hurting me so *bang*"
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Old 11-24-2014, 06:10 PM   #50
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here's an article with a video that someone captured. The video doesn't really show what happened though. Things witnesses are saying does shed some light.

Witness video captures moment Vancouver police open fire on man - British Columbia - CBC News
if there's one thing you shouldn't trust, it's eye witness accounts. They are notoriously faulty, and unless this one guy's statements are corroborated by another source, I find it difficult to take them for what they are.

good find on the video though -- Love how immediately after they saw "was that shots?" The camera falls away from the action -- Classic
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