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Old 11-26-2014, 12:04 AM   #51
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Jack,

It isn't a matter of entitlement at all. Nowhere did I say anyone should feel entitled to live in Vancouver proper. However, as your example has clearly indicated, housing costs (ie. having a roof over your head, not necessarily buying your own place or anything) has been steadily increasing, and it is having a direct impact on your employee. As he continues to move further away from the more central municipalities, his transportation times and costs are steadily increasing as well. A side effect of this is also a direct reduction in his personal free time. Common sense tells us that reductions in personal free time is directly correlated to a lower quality of life.

This is why I said housing and transportation costs seem like the bigger issues than minimum wage.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:23 AM   #52
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Living in an expensive city doesn't qualify you for making a high wage. Having a high wage position qualifies you for that. and making that wage can justify your reasoning for staying in a city such as vancouver and trying to survive and raise a family. Raising the min wage is not the solution to the outrageous housing costs... It's the fuckin housing costs for christ sake. If anything raising the min wage will raise the living costs along with it because of inflation. Australia is a prime example of why this system doesn't work. 12$ margaritas aren't worth it.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:51 AM   #53
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Terrible news for small business owners... More so for businesses with main source of net income is from exporting overseas.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:09 AM   #54
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I think at $15 minimum wage mcdonalds will roll out automation. They already use automated cashiers in Europe. Grocery stores already rolled out self-serve registers.
so it's a lose-lose for minimum wagers.

In Seatac, they already charge you $1-2 cost of wage increase fee or something last time I flew out of there.

I wish there was a way for social welfare to not be abused by deadbeats. I think poor people have more entitlement issues than rich people nowadays.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:42 AM   #55
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LOL.

If raising the minimum wage to $15/hr will help alleviate the burden of high cost of living, than surely an increase to $30, $40/hr will eradicate poverty for the unskilled labour force!

Common sense would figure that the demand from employers to employ said unskilled workers would decrease if they have to pay someone more money than they are worth. Consider that the minimum wage market is filled with such diverse walks, I'm sure a few of them students living at home, young adults supplementing their income, bored immigrants/wives, etc, etc raising minimum wages actually only serve to help a small fraction of those who would really benefit from it.

Plenty of jobs out there paying above minimum but I guess since it requires either commitment, dedication, hard work and/or brains...evidently, are non-existent traits in these types here.
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Old 11-26-2014, 02:47 AM   #56
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quoted from my friend

"It's not that I don't think the minimum wage shouldn't be increased, I just don't think in this society useless stupid kids should get paid more than their worth. If you're 30 something and working a minimum wage job then something must have happened for you to be in such a shitty situation. Not necessarily that I think it's their fault, but why would we encourage this society to not work hard and get better pay?
Life is all about the choices you make in life and sometimes you will finally get owned for all the stupid mistakes you made. Why should people who actually bust their ass and work hard get paid the same as someone who just started?

If you're making ends meet because your rent is expensive maybe you should move somewhere cheaper. Maybe you shouldn't have bought the new iPhone when you couldn't afford it. Maybe you should educate yourself in SOMETHING to encourage your chances of getting a better paying job. Or you could be like the rest of us who work in the restaurant /food business you could get a second part time job.

Nothing in this world is perfect. You always have to make sacrifices to get what you want. You can't get everything without working hard. I certainly don't work two jobs and pay taxes for both in order for people who do nothing but complain about their lack of capabilities to get a higher wage."
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Old 11-26-2014, 03:56 AM   #57
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Take a look at countries that had raised their minimum wage exponentially like in UK and Australia and you will notice first-hand that it DOES NOT improve affordability. Inflation will skyrocket, increasing the cost of basic necessity and services even higher. It's all a snowball effect.

That $8 bowl of large Pho you pay today will cost $13 tomorrow because that server makes $15/hr now. It will hurt small businesses because they can't afford to pass the additional cost to consumers, like large enterprises can.

And how is Canada's economy built?

From small businesses. This is the opposite of improving the lives of the working class.
I'm in perth and that's exactly how it is BUT take the price of a meal in vancouver, add in tax and tip and it's almost exactly what it would cost you here....EXCEPT that sever is making $25/hour but no tips

wages here are ridiculous....$25+/hour doing basic temp construction labour, that same job would get you $17/hour at home
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Old 11-26-2014, 04:26 AM   #58
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Youth unemployment numbers are sky high, the average age of children living with their parents past the age of 18 is up in the late 20's. I don't know about the rest of you, but the majority of people I encounter in customer service low-wage jobs are people in their late 20's and beyond. These people are working all the hours they can get its not a livable wage.

Meanwhile you have stories like this:

Report: CEOs Earn 331 Times As Much As Average Workers, 774 Times As Much As Minimum Wage Earners(Canada was in the mid-100's if I recall)
Report: CEOs Earn 331 Times As Much As Average Workers, 774 Times As Much As Minimum Wage Earners - Forbes

I'm not suggesting CEO's and such do not deserve larger earnings than many of their employees, but their earnings should be within reason. When minimum wages are increased, they often would rather increase the cost of living for everyone than reevaluate their earnings. Greed is a helluva drug. Hard-working people who put in 40+ hours a week should not live in poverty, should not have to get their groceries at a food bank, and should not be vilified for asking for a living wage while their bosses earn more money than they know what to do with it.

Simply increasing the minimum wage will only increase the cost of living until things like CEO pay is brought back to a more reasonable and societally responsible level.
No way would it happen like that.

If their profit margins shrink corporations will raise prices up to compensate.

You really think a CEO will just be like "it's okay guys I'll take the hit, you lazy fucks can all get a $5 raise"

You don't know what a CEO or an owner of a corporation had to do to get to where he is today. Probably took a huge risk, and probably was out busting his ass while you're sitting at home watching American Idol or some other mind rotting show.

We live in North America, the land of opportunity, the land founded on Free Enterprise. Everybody has the exact same chance to get a large slice of pie.


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The government would save a lot of money on social programs if people earned a living wage and didn't have to depend so much on these programs to get by. While companies would make more money if workers had money to spend. Many companies spend a lot of money to get governments to bend over backwards for them, find regulatory and tax loopholes, move profits offshore,etc so they can increase profits, often at the expense of society, the environment, etc.
Spoken like a true Liberal



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Old 11-26-2014, 07:59 AM   #59
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Laughing at the people that think they can pull 1 lever in the complex economic machine and improve productivity.

Basic economics should be taught at the high-school level
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Old 11-26-2014, 08:34 AM   #60
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Jack,

It isn't a matter of entitlement at all. Nowhere did I say anyone should feel entitled to live in Vancouver proper. However, as your example has clearly indicated, housing costs (ie. having a roof over your head, not necessarily buying your own place or anything) has been steadily increasing, and it is having a direct impact on your employee. As he continues to move further away from the more central municipalities, his transportation times and costs are steadily increasing as well. A side effect of this is also a direct reduction in his personal free time. Common sense tells us that reductions in personal free time is directly correlated to a lower quality of life.

This is why I said housing and transportation costs seem like the bigger issues than minimum wage.
I know tons of ppl whoa re able to rent a room in Vancouver/BBY for $500 to $600 a month so if all they want is a roof over their heads is not that bad. A few friends of mine decided to rent this house 5 people their monthly cost to rent is about $450 each. Not too bad.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:06 AM   #61
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How many people remember the $6/hr for your first 500 hours of work?

People make stupid fucking choices, and figure they should get paid more just because they live in an expensive city. Great, and you tell me this isn't about entitlement.

How many kids these days, go to school, then work full-time after that? Bet it's about... 2% of that population. I worked warehouse jobs, after school, breaking my back to get out from the minimum wage shitshow.

Yet this whole discussion started after the 21% child poverty rate we have here. The fault doesn't lie in the minimum wage, in the housing or transportation costs.. It lies in people making bad decisions. If you're making ends meet now, why do you think you can start a family? Just because you can get pregnant, doesn't mean you should.
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:50 AM   #62
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I think so many things have changed in last 10 or 15 years.

House is so expensive now, like triple of what it used to be 10 years ago
Education is very expensive, it's like $500+/course, not $125/course like 10 years ago
Chinese economy is growing, Canada might get taken over
Internet: Amazon, eBay, etc. are absolutely murdering small businesses. If you look at the research Walmart is no big deal compare to those internet shopping sites
Expensive gas
Expensive labour on anything
It was much easier to get a McDicks job, almost right away
University Degree actually meant something back then

The list will just go on and on,..

And back then, minimum wage was $8/hr which is good if you consider living cost
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:03 AM   #63
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$15 an hour, what a fucking joke this petition is
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:11 AM   #64
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Honestly even based on seniority snd experiance, working the same job for 3-5 years if you have any sort of ability you should get raised above 15 in that period. Even if it's data input, etc

If you're not, then that's your fault
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:51 AM   #65
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This is a bit of a silly idea, of course, but of course, this thread has turned into a shit-fest on people who do fall through the cracks.

I think some people are naive in thinking that hard work gets you to where you want to go in life. A lot of other factors come into play - family connections, people skills, luck, physical appearance, etc. Sure, it's important to hustle, but hard work and smarts (however you define them) can only get you so far. You often hear about rags-to-riches stories because people who had to work hard tend to speak up. However, lots of successful people didn't necessarily get to where they are today because of "hard work".
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:59 AM   #66
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I think people forget BC =/= Vancouver. I get 99% of this forum is from the lower mainland though. How do people think this would change the rest of BC like Hope, Golden, Castlegar, Salmon Arm, Terrace, etc. Even smaller towns where small grocery stores already have to keep their prices high because their volumes are so low and the shipping costs are high. Most of the towns in BC are too small to be considered for a Wal-Mart or anything like that. I know some people that keep their little stores open strictly to provide goods for their community and barely make profit as it stands.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:15 AM   #67
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lol well, I didn't think this would stir up so much shit... there are a lot of good points though that I never would've considered. I didn't see any of the negative effects to raising min. wage but clearly I was wrong.. I still think they should raise it a little bit, BC has the lowest minimum wage in Canada, it doesn't need to be so drastic but I think if they fight for $15 and get it bumped up a little bit it wouldn't be so bad :P
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:20 AM   #68
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:31 AM   #69
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The campaign's ran by BC Federation of Labour. Of course they would want the minimum raised.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:31 AM   #70
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Jack,

It isn't a matter of entitlement at all. Nowhere did I say anyone should feel entitled to live in Vancouver proper. However, as your example has clearly indicated, housing costs (ie. having a roof over your head, not necessarily buying your own place or anything) has been steadily increasing, and it is having a direct impact on your employee. As he continues to move further away from the more central municipalities, his transportation times and costs are steadily increasing as well. A side effect of this is also a direct reduction in his personal free time. Common sense tells us that reductions in personal free time is directly correlated to a lower quality of life.

This is why I said housing and transportation costs seem like the bigger issues than minimum wage.
It's a minimum wage job for a reason. Transportation cost shouldn't be an issue, we have a the bus pass to save money. If you're broke why are you driving? People don't get that having a car is a luxury, you can certainly get by without one. Also, if joeblow is working at mcdonalds in vancouver finds that he needs to relocate to maple ridge to make rent but is struggling due to transportation cost, the answer isn't to ask for a $15/hr minimum wage. Joeblow needs to think stop and think "lol why the fck am I commuting that far daily to work at a dead end job?". Reduction in personal time? Fck your personal time. If you've chosen to commute that far for a minimum wage and you're probably working shitty shifts too, then you clearly don't value your time. If joeblow has decided or has no choice but to work a minimum wage job then he should work closer to home. I understand that jobs don't just don't just pop out of thin air but minimum wage jobs are not that hard to find. A minimum wage job is suppose to be just a stage in your life and you're suppose to grow out of it. Working that shitty job is suppose to build your character and make you strive for more. For some people it's a brief stage and unfortunately for others it's a struggle but if you raise the minimum wage to $15/hr then you'll find people that will actually settle.
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Old 11-26-2014, 11:49 AM   #71
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$15 will just become the new $10.25 as prices for everything else increases and entry-level jobs are cut.

I remember starting out at $9. I felt that this was fair for what I was doing back then. A person does not deserve $15 for flipping burgers or making your coffee. That wage also motivated me to do better so that one day I would have a better paying job.
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:21 PM   #72
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$15 will just become the new $10.25 as prices for everything else increases and entry-level jobs are cut.

I remember starting out at $9. I felt that this was fair for what I was doing back then. A person does not deserve $15 for flipping burgers or making your coffee. That wage also motivated me to do better so that one day I would have a better paying job.
This. A lot of these Internet economists don't understand that this will just increase inflation, if the minimum wage is increased and the underlying factors behind a high cost of living aren't addressed. Such as lack of well-funded public transport, foreign investors buying up all the homes, and a relative lack of high-paying jobs in the city. Not to mention employers will just fire "extra" staff and overwork the remaining people to make up for the financial loss. I used to work min. wage too, $9.93 an hour and it sucked.. but it also motivated me to do better and pushed me to take post-secondary education.

People always point to how European countries can typically have such high minimum wages without understanding that they are high because taxes are so high in order to pay for education. In a country where the average person is shelling out $20-30,000 to finish post-secondary, a higher minimum wage will just further devalue education. Having a Bachelors nowadays is the equivalent of having a high school diploma back in the day; it's almost expected of you to move up. If I know I can make $15/hour at any old McJob why the fuck would anyone put themselves through the torture that is 4 years of additional schooling along with having to shell out that kind of money? I know I wouldn't...
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:47 PM   #73
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$15 will just become the new $10.25 as prices for everything else increases and entry-level jobs are cut.
If this goes through and you currently make above $15/hr. Don't hold your breath expecting that 40-50% salary adjustment. What's more likely to happen is you wipe out even more of what's remaining of the middle class.

Current post secondary grads are underemployed already. Job creation should be the focus and increasing the minimum wage absolutely counters that.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:00 PM   #74
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This is a bit of a silly idea, of course, but of course, this thread has turned into a shit-fest on people who do fall through the cracks.

I think some people are naive in thinking that hard work gets you to where you want to go in life. A lot of other factors come into play - family connections, people skills, luck, physical appearance, etc. Sure, it's important to hustle, but hard work and smarts (however you define them) can only get you so far. You often hear about rags-to-riches stories because people who had to work hard tend to speak up. However, lots of successful people didn't necessarily get to where they are today because of "hard work".
This is so true. Guess what? The world is unfair, get over it.

Success people usually had "turning point" in their life. Life event or something that changed their life. Sudden cash flow, meeting someone big, like anything.

If you keep working hard like slave for no reason, without vision, goal, inspiration, luck, and all the other factors, you probably won't go anywhere.

Have you ever seen people who have been working at McDonalds or same grocery store, restaurants, etc. for last few decades?

Sure, you can be a hard working employee, but you will be probably be stuck there for few decades and that's would probably be it.
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Old 11-26-2014, 01:05 PM   #75
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lol well, I didn't think this would stir up so much shit...
for some reason i was imagining this as all part of your plan and you were like this






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