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Old 04-30-2015, 01:16 AM   #51
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The infrastructure is already set up for these huge telecom companies...it cost pennies to deliver data.

This is pure price gouging.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:59 AM   #52
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thats interesting, when was this? growing up with dial up, ive always known there was somewhat of a limit to access the internet. from how many hours u get with dial up each month, to how much bandwidth u get with broadband.
It was when Shaw internet first came to town. They had this big open house at a local high school and the guy kept saying unlimited internet. Years later they said the guy meant unlimited connection to the the internet not unlimited bandwidth.

I wonder if using Shomi or Crave TV counts towards the cap? Bell tried to to that with cellphones buy not charging data for people live streaming TV from there app but got shut down by the CRTC. But thats wherewe are heading use there service and data does not count use something like YouTube and your cap takes a hit.

Remember in the 80's when it use to cost a buck a minute to call the east cost and you had to rent or buy a phone from the telco? The government opened up competition and the prices dropped over night. I remember a company doing 10 cents a minute the another company doing 7 cents then someone doing 5 cents now it's a penny or less a minute. The government needs to do something so there can be actual competition.
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:56 AM   #53
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I bitched a little on social media and called to cancel, genuinely ready to go to Teksavvy, when Telus said they would upgrade my account to unlimited bandwidth for free.

But keep in mind I've had a Telus high speed account since 1998.
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Old 04-30-2015, 08:52 AM   #54
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Most of the major cities in Canada are already laid out with fiber (Fiber-To-The-Node). Only issue is telecommunication companies are too cheap (and lacking a standard from the federal government - read the article above) to lay out the "last mile".

Correct me if I am wrong, but you work for Novus, so I understand your opinion may be bias.

The cost of fiber cable has been coming down in price tremendously in the last decade. There's absolutely no reason why our internet speed is slower than countries like Nigeria and Uganda. This is how pathetic and embarrassing of a state we are in.

Cost of Fibre Optic Cable: $120USD/KM (Average)
High Quality Factory Non-armore Outdoor Fiber Optic Cable Gyfxy - Buy Non-armore Fiber Optic Cable,Fiber Optic Cable,Fiber Optic Cable For Cctv Product on Alibaba.com
Is not as easy as you think. Bigger companies like Shaw have had help from the gov way back in the ways to lay their network. Private company like us don't really have much help. A lot of the times we have to rent our bier from other companies or build our own (btw is not cheap like the link you provided). Also the wiring in your building (if you live in an apartment) matters as well. Some of the building are wired with crappy cate3 cable you are lucky to even get 10Mbps download. Newer building have less issues.

I can't say how much it cost of lay new fibers to new areas but it is in 5 digits for a few km. So you can image how costly it can be just to upgrade to some areas where there is only a small number of people. It is not worth the investment. That's why we only do high raise and apartments that's very close together to save cost.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:34 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by willystyle View Post
The cost of fiber cable has been coming down in price tremendously in the last decade. There's absolutely no reason why our internet speed is slower than countries like Nigeria and Uganda. This is how pathetic and embarrassing of a state we are in.

Cost of Fibre Optic Cable: $120USD/KM (Average)
High Quality Factory Non-armore Outdoor Fiber Optic Cable Gyfxy - Buy Non-armore Fiber Optic Cable,Fiber Optic Cable,Fiber Optic Cable For Cctv Product on Alibaba.com

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I can't say how much it cost of lay new fibers to new areas but it is in 5 digits for a few km. So you can image how costly it can be just to upgrade to some areas where there is only a small number of people. It is not worth the investment. That's why we only do high raise and apartments that's very close together to save cost.
First of all, I doubt Shaw, Bell and Telus are logging in to Alibaba to buy shitty cheap Chinese cable...

Second, that's just the price of the cable. Never mind things like shipping and import duties, since they're probably buying in Canada (or at least within North America)... there's still all the manpower to lay it, the equipment, the trucks... it's not like the cable guy coming to your house, sticking a splitter in the junction box, and stapling a new coax to the siding to add an outlet to your bathroom. You can't just splice a piece of fibre with a couple of crimp connectors.

EDIT: also, Uganda has 40 million people in 236,000 square km (136 people per km^2); Nigeria has 180 million in just under a million km (167 people per km^2). Both are a relatively small area to wire up, with a lot of people to split the cost of it.

Canada has barely 35 million people packed tight into nearly nine million square km - that's 3.4 people to every km^2. If you want the same service and want to split the cost across its users... they're going to have to pay a fuckton more. And yes, I realize that most of the population is clustered along the south border... doesn't change the fact that those connections have to cross a LOT of open space, and there's not nearly as many people to pay for it.
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Old 04-30-2015, 09:54 AM   #56
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I signed up for unlimited last month. 4 person household (2 up and 2 tenants down).
Our tenants love Netflix so it's common we go over 200 gb

$10 per month but they gave us a loyalty discount of $5 off for 6 month. May as well ask for it.

For those with a suite thinking of ditching telus. Shaw charges a $25 suite fee if they know you have one.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:19 AM   #57
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You have a business hoping to make lots of money right? Before Netflix and other streaming services were around, data traffic wasn't too bad. But now its crazy! as jlo mein mentioned. Streaming services are now making big bucks off the backs of ISP. Netflix etc isnt giving a penny to ISP *correct me if I am wrong* who spends millions on upgrading and maintaining their network.

I currently use a 50MB plan which includes 400gb. Good thing my highest month is only 302GB in the past year.
Honestly, I don't disagree that Telus can charge what they want. If you don't like it, switch to another provider. But to suggest that streaming services like Netflix owe such a debt of gratitude to ISP's like Telus sounds a bit biased or one-sided. I have a friend who is considering paying telus to increase their allowable data usage as they are going over their limit DUE to Netflix. So the question is, who is generating revenue for whom?
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:32 AM   #58
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Is not as easy as you think. Bigger companies like Shaw have had help from the gov way back in the ways to lay their network. Private company like us don't really have much help.
When I mentioned telecommunication sector, I was referring to the big 3, not small telecoms.

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A lot of the times we have to rent our bier from other companies or build our own (btw is not cheap like the link you provided). Also the wiring in your building (if you live in an apartment) matters as well. Some of the building are wired with crappy cate3 cable you are lucky to even get 10Mbps download. Newer building have less issues.

I can't say how much it cost of lay new fibers to new areas but it is in 5 digits for a few km. So you can image how costly it can be just to upgrade to some areas where there is only a small number of people. It is not worth the investment. That's why we only do high raise and apartments that's very close together to save cost.
As I've said, much of this cost could be split between the major telecoms and the federal government. If we only get the urban areas all linked up, the cost is not that high.

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First of all, I doubt Shaw, Bell and Telus are logging in to Alibaba to buy shitty cheap Chinese cable...
.....Yeah because everything made in China is shitty and cheap.

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Second, that's just the price of the cable. Never mind things like shipping and import duties, since they're probably buying in Canada (or at least within North America)...
Since Chinese-made products are shitty and cheap, and that they will likely purchase an American-made product, why would you need to worry about tariffs? That's what NAFTA is for.

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there's still all the manpower to lay it, the equipment, the trucks... it's not like the cable guy coming to your house, sticking a splitter in the junction box, and stapling a new coax to the siding to add an outlet to your bathroom. You can't just splice a piece of fibre with a couple of crimp connectors.
Most of the time when telecommunication companies lay fibre, they wait and collaborate with city workers to put in fibre while they are doing maintenance work on sewage and underground pipes. In this case, the cost of excavating, equipment rental, so on and so forth, is not an expense for the telecommunication company right? You should look up how Google Fibre does it in the states.

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EDIT: also, Uganda has 40 million people in 236,000 square km (136 people per km^2); Nigeria has 180 million in just under a million km (167 people per km^2). Both are a relatively small area to wire up, with a lot of people to split the cost of it.

Canada has barely 35 million people packed tight into nearly nine million square km - that's 3.4 people to every km^2. If you want the same service and want to split the cost across its users... they're going to have to pay a fuckton more. And yes, I realize that most of the population is clustered along the south border... doesn't change the fact that those connections have to cross a LOT of open space, and there's not nearly as many people to pay for it.
I disagree with your argument. I believe that the cost to put this in place is not as high as you state. And obviously, the big telecoms CEO's would use the same excuse as you just stated that the population isn't big enough for it to sustain fibre. Currently, there's no incentive for the big telecoms to further advance internet technology. No need to invest more money in infrastructure when they charge us $80 for a monthly plan, when it costs them $3 to deliver that service (notice the markup here?).

Obviously, if we left it up to the Big 3 to charge us for true fibre optic, without any regulation, competition (it doesn't exist currently in canada, what we have here is an oligopoly) and oversight from the government, they'd charge us an arm and a leg. In which this case, fibre optic would never be sustainable by their accord.

Shaw:

60Mbps/400GB Cap
=$90/month

If they put in fibre, and have unlimited bandwidth and a 1GBps, we would have the most expensive 1GBps plan on this planet based on how our big telecoms gouge us now with copper-based wire, so by logic, it obviously wouldn't be sustainable by the average Canadian, based on how they charge us now. LOL!

Last edited by willystyle; 04-30-2015 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:25 PM   #59
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Would be great if they just charge for what is used like many other things. Like 15c per gig. I don't mind paying more for the months I use a lot and the months I use less, I can save a few bucks.
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Old 04-30-2015, 05:27 PM   #60
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Most of the time when telecommunication companies lay fibre, they wait and collaborate with city workers to put in fibre while they are doing maintenance work on sewage and underground pipes. In this case, the cost of excavating, equipment rental, so on and so forth, is not an expense for the telecommunication company right? You should look up how Google Fibre does it in the states.
That's fine within the cities. What about when you want to connect Vancouver to Toronto and need to cross 4,000km of empty prairies?

Quote:
I disagree with your argument. I believe that the cost to put this in place is not as high as you state.
I didn't state any cost.

Quote:
And obviously, the big telecoms CEO's would use the same excuse as you just stated that the population isn't big enough for it to sustain fibre.
I also never said the population wasn't big enough to support fibre. I'm saying the population DENSITY isn't enough to support large-scale fibre at a cost the customers will accept. And when the customers have whined enough that the government clamps all kinds of caps and restrictions on what they can charge, it really limits the attractiveness of making that investment.

Quote:
Currently, there's no incentive for the big telecoms to further advance internet technology. No need to invest more money in infrastructure when they charge us $80 for a monthly plan, when it costs them $3 to deliver that service (notice the markup here?).
There's no incentive to invest money in MASSIVELY EXPANDED infrastructure when they're not allowed to charge any more for it.

CAN they do it? Sure. What's their incentive? Why would they WANT to?
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Old 04-30-2015, 07:17 PM   #61
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That's fine within the cities. What about when you want to connect Vancouver to Toronto and need to cross 4,000km of empty prairies?
It's called the internet backbone. That aspect is already in place. Like I've said, it's the "last mile" where they're not willing to invest. They as in the government and the oligopoly.

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There's no incentive to invest money in MASSIVELY EXPANDED infrastructure when they're not allowed to charge any more for it.
That's the problem! You can't gouge more than you're already gouging.

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What's their incentive? Why would they WANT to?
No incentive for the big corporations, but tons for the federal government; however, there's no will to get it done, hence my rant!

Do we need it? Yes
Is it sustainable? I believe so
Will it make more profit for the big 3? Probably not!

You made the comment that it's not sustainable to build it, and I'm saying that it does, as long as we are charged reasonably for it. However, there's no such thing as reasonable pricing when it comes to internet access in Canada based on our current organizational structure and obsolete draconian policy's.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:10 PM   #62
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I bitched a little on social media and called to cancel, genuinely ready to go to Teksavvy, when Telus said they would upgrade my account to unlimited bandwidth for free.

But keep in mind I've had a Telus high speed account since 1998.
also had DSL with them since 97...haha will use this as ammo.

Do you have all 3 in a bundle or just internet?
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:18 PM   #63
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Old 05-01-2015, 05:44 PM   #64
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Would be great if they just charge for what is used like many other things. Like 15c per gig. I don't mind paying more for the months I use a lot and the months I use less, I can save a few bucks.
LOL that will never happen. They don't even let you roll over data.
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