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Old 07-08-2015, 02:02 PM   #26
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Besides the point, there's dirt balls in chilliwack going and killing spring bears completely legally and dumping the meat in the garbage by the time they get home and people are concerned with two fucking Cubs because they think they are the reincarnation of Winnie the Pooh? Fuck
Man, and I thought I am just a capitalist pig who doesn't give a fuck about the environment.

Once again, if you go back and read, you are the one who made this more about the bears. My original post and intent for this thread was to look at the actions of the CO, and similar scenarios within the RCMP, and see if his actions were worthy of the punishment he is receiving.

So AGAIN:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk? Don't keep peddling on about the fucking bears, I don't give a fuck what they do with those bears.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:06 PM   #27
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DO you have any clue how much it costs for the process? or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?



FOCUS people, answer my big question:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?
Police officers being suspended with or without pay is governed by Provincial Police Acts and only allow suspension without pay in certain situations. It's not something that their commanding officer or the Police Chief determines willy nilly, I'm sure there are lots of times where they want to suspend an individual without pay, but legislation does not allow it. I know a lot of people get mad at the police in general about some officers being suspended with pay, but really that should be directed towards politicians to change the act. For the record, I agree in a lot of the examples you gave, the officer should have been suspended without pay. Article from last year about Ontario Police Chief trying to get act changed to allow suspension without pay Should cops charged with offences, misconduct, be suspended without pay? - Hamilton - CBC News

Then there is also the issue of you are dealing with unionized employees (police officers), and it is not always easy to suspend without pay or terminate a member without a conviction or full investigation. Also like the general public, an officer has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, so simply having charges brought against someone wouldn't always be grounds for termination or suspension without pay until a conviction or investigation is complete. You see this in the private sector as well, see very public examples of Adrian Peterson, Greg Hardy in NFL, Slava Voynov in NHL, all suspended for criminal charges but still collected salaries. At my work, non-unionized, you should see the hoops we have to jump through to terminate an employee to protect from any potential wrongful termination litigation, even if there is just cause, it is quite the process.

In this case of the conservation officer, I don't know if Conservation Officers are governed under the Police Services Act, I don't think they are, so the criteria for allowable suspension with or without pay would be different than the police officers you often hear of that are suspended with pay. Perhaps disobeying a direct order from commanding officer/supervisor is in their act or contract as an allowable offence for suspension without pay.
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:17 PM   #28
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Does everyone understand hunting bears is legal in B.C.?
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Old 07-08-2015, 02:42 PM   #29
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I get the response about the cubs, I couldn't care less about how people feel about them, but I would be way happier to spend 100k on those two cubs, rather than seeing crusty cunt and her saggy tits doing downward dog on some bridge.
That's great and all, but that's not how budgeting works. You can't just pull money from here or there at random.

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Regardless that's why I have been focusing more on the punishment of this conservation officer in relation to other vaguely similar suspensions.

RCMP officer punches a helpless handcuffed kid in the head on video, and he was placed on desk duties while the investigation was completed.

That's the norm that I have seen all the time, while an investigation occurs most officers are placed on desk duties or paid suspension.
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Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?
CO's aren't members of the RCMP, so I'm not sure how RCMP suspensions are supposed to affect a CO. Maybe try making a direct comparison if you want this argument to carry much weight. As someone else said, generally speaking those in charge can't just pick these things willy-nilly on a case by case basis.

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And your more of an expert on the matter than the guy who does this for a living? You know the Campbell guys who has devoted his life to these animals, and has a permit and education on rehabilitating bears?

Cause that dude said SPECIFICALLY and I quote:

"Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release."

So I really don't know who to believe here, some random guy, or someone who actually has training and education in the matter....
1) Learn how the media works, that's not a direct quote from Campbell, and 2) Don't you think the opinions of just a few other experts should be called on first, not just the guy who would most likely be the one getting paid to rehab the bears? Of course he'll be more likely to say they're good candidates for release when the money is going into his pocket.

Now I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I do know that in the real world few animals die of old age. So forgive me for thinking it sounds a bit daft to throw a bunch of money into rehabilitating two bears, of which our province is fortunate to have a large number of already, that could very easily end up dead within a month of being released because that's how the world bloody works. Don't make it sound like them living a long time is a sure thing when it most certainly isn't, this isn't some Disney movie.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:22 PM   #30
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CO's aren't members of the RCMP, so I'm not sure how RCMP suspensions are supposed to affect a CO. Maybe try making a direct comparison if you want this argument to carry much weight. As someone else said, generally speaking those in charge can't just pick these things willy-nilly on a case by case basis.
I'm not saying to pick things willy nilly.

I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.

You don't think that's fucked up?

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That's great and all, but that's not how budgeting works. You can't just pull money from here or there at random.
If you go back and read that example was made by someone else, I was simply replying to the comment.
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Old 07-08-2015, 03:46 PM   #31
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I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.

You don't think that's fucked up?

The real question and argument here is if what this guy did was really the "right thing".

If it was in fact the "wrong thing" than no, I don't think that's fucked up.
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Old 07-08-2015, 04:20 PM   #32
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The real question and argument here is if what this guy did was really the "right thing".

If it was in fact the "wrong thing" than no, I don't think that's fucked up.
I don't believe anyone can think what he did was "the wrong thing".

All he did was take the cubs to a veterinarian, from there the decision can still be made to euthanize the cubs if the value isn't seen in re-locating them.

But atleast the effort was made to assess the cubs, and decide what the proper course of action is, versus the original knee jerk reaction by some manager somewhere telling the CO to kill the cubs.


Also there is levels to right and wrong. I'd certainly argue that driving impaired carries a harsher sentence than failing to follow through with an order.
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Old 07-08-2015, 05:53 PM   #33
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Regardless of how you feel about it he still disobeyed an order, possibly wasted funds and possibly neglected his duties by taking the cubs to a vet. Whether that was the right thing or the wrong thing is why it needs to be investigated and sorted out.

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I'm not saying to pick things willy nilly.

I am bringing this up as a talking point, so maybe people will give their heads a shake and realize that something is wrong in the system, when a guy gets suspended without pay for trying to do the right thing, meanwhile a PO gets caught for blatantly breaking the law and gets a lesser punishment.
Once again, they aren't part of the RCMP, so punishments handed out to CO's and RCMP have no bearing on one another. I highly doubt the course of action taken when investigating the actions of a CO are going to be the same as when a PO is being investigated, nor should they be.

Now if the correct course of action when a CO is being investigated is to suspend them without pay then I don't see what the problem is, as if they differ from that correct action on a case by case basis then yes things are being chosen willy nilly.

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You don't think that's fucked up?
What's fucked up is that you still seem to think that the RCMP and CO are the same thing.
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Old 07-08-2015, 06:03 PM   #34
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I don't believe anyone can think what he did was "the wrong thing".
I do, I personally couldn't give less of a shit about 2 non-endangered baby bear cubs.

Shit, If I was there I'd take the gun and I'd shoot them myself.
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:05 PM   #35
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What's fucked up is that you still seem to think that the RCMP and CO are the same thing.
I know that PO's and CO's are different.

However they are both civil servants. I am merely comparing the differences between two government organizations, and pointing out that there is perhaps some serious faults with allowing police to police themselves.

But you are too hung up on little things to see the big picture.

So forget it. There are hundreds of other people on news websites, phoning into CKNW, facebook comments, pointing out the exact same thing I am here.
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:08 AM   #36
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If you have a problem with the way the RCMP operates make a thread about it, trying to make a roundabout point using an article about CO's are bears is a bit of a weird way to do it.

As far as the comments of other people, generally speaking the people commenting on news websites and Facebook as fucking morons, so I wouldn't take much comfort in their support.
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