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Old 07-07-2015, 06:50 PM   #1
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Conservation Officer Suspended Without Pay For Not Killing Bear Cubs

First the story:

Quote:
B.C. conservation officer Bryce Casavant has been suspended without pay for refusing to kill two black bear cubs near Port Hardy after their mother was killed for repeatedly raiding a freezer full of meat and salmon.

Despite an order to kill the cubs too, Casavant took them to a veterinary hospital. They are now at a recovery centre run by the North Island Wildlife Recovery Association in Errington, which like Port Hardy is on Vancouver Island.

Robin Campbell, the recovery centre's manager, said the conservation officer did the right thing as the cubs are not habituated to humans and can be reintroduced to the wild.

"[The mother bear] was a problem, but these cubs did nothing."

After Casavant's suspension was reported in a community paper, an online petition was started asking Environment Minister Mary Polak to reinstate the officer.

Mother bear raided freezer

The conservation service had been called by a homeowner to deal with the cubs' mother after she repeatedly raided the freezer inside a mobile home south of Port Hardy, said Campbell.

After a community paper, the North Island Gazette, posted a story showing the tranquillized cubs, a petition was started to reinstate the conservation officer. (North Island Gazette)

The cubs a brother and sister returned to the property looking for their mother.

They climbed a tree next to the mobile home, and were removed by a team of firefighters and the conservation officer.

Casavant tranquillized the cubs and took them to a veterinarian, who found they were in good health, Campbell said.

Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release.

"In 30 years, this is the first time we've ever had an issue like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of misunderstanding ... hopefully somebody will come to their senses."

The B.C. Ministry of Environment hasn't said what it plans to do about the cubs now, but in a statement said the Conservation Officer Service is investigating "this situation, including the actions of its members."

"This is a very sad and unfortunate situation," said Polak in a statement. "Although conservation officers must sometimes put down wild animals for the safety of the public and the welfare of the animal, we understand how difficult it is for all involved."

Polak said senior biologists and the provincial wildlife veterinarian are involved in the decision whether to relocate or destroy an animal, in addition to the local conservation officer.

The ministry said it would not comment on personnel matters due to privacy rules.

Casavant confirmed he was suspended without pay over the cubs, but declined to comment further.
TL;DR - Conservation officer refuses order to put down two innocent cubs, takes them to a shelter, shelter says they are perfect for re-rehabilitation and re-release. Officer still gets suspended without pay.

Story is here:

Bryce Casavant, conservation officer, suspended for refusing to kill bear cubs - British Columbia - CBC News
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:50 PM   #2
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Now this bugs me for a lot of reasons, some obvious, but some not so much. Obviously he should be commended for his ability to think for himself, and not simply follow ridiculous orders. I would certainly never punish and employee if they refused to follow an order and ended up making the correct decision.

The bigger concern I have is the severity of his punishment. You look at other prevalent cases of suspension in some other government organizations and it doesn't take long to see a big gap. I hate to do it, but RCMP and local police departments immediately come to mind. Over the years I have seen so many cases of RCMP members who have been relegated to desk duties, or suspended with pay, and I always ask myself "WOW he did that and still gets to go to work? I would have motherfucking fired his ass."

I decided to dig up some cases:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1450743/up...nded-with-pay/

Quote:
Multiple officers accuse a High profile RCMP insp. of sexual assault and he gets suspended with pay.
Const. Taylor Robinson suspended 6 days for shoving woman on Vancouver street - British Columbia - CBC News

Quote:
Const. Robinson Shoves an unprovoked disabled woman to the ground, only received a 6 day suspension
Court fines North Vancouver RCMP officer who blew through speed trap as 'prank'

Quote:
How about this fucking winner who blew through a speed trap at 60km/h over the limit, and led other officers on a chase as a prank. He didn't even get suspended.
UPDATED: Cops drive drunk, get into fights, humiliate female co-workers: annual report | (CKNW AM) AM980

Quote:
A whole slew of incidents in this one. Officers fighting, driving drunk, harassing people, they all get just a few days suspension without pay.
Police officers busted for cocaine, hiring prostitute, drunk driving - British Columbia - CBC News

Quote:
-In Abbotsford, a female officer pulled over a car for failing to stop and forced the female motorist to the ground at gunpoint where she was handcuffed. The motorist was eventually released without charge, but given a traffic ticket for failing to provide a driver's licence. However, the police complaints commission found the officer had not provided the woman a reasonable opportunity to produce her licence. The officer was given a written reprimand and sent for retraining.

-In Victoria, an officer used his department's email address to send a photo of a naked male. He was suspended without pay for eight days.

-A New Westminster officer drove his car into a rock, sustaining minor damage. It was the officer's sixth motor vehicle accident in six years, four of which were his fault. The officer was sent for driver assessment and training.
I am likely missing so many, I remember many about impaired police officers, or police using excessive force, etc.

My point is that how sad is this... That we allow all these bad officers who taint the name of all those who serve and protect us off basically scot free, and this poor dude who was just trying to do the right thing is suspended without pay indefinitely?

This system is fucking ridiculous.
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:05 PM   #3
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:13 PM   #4
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In life, when you do the right thing or stand up for your moral convictions, you most likely will go broke or be punished


If you go with the flow and promote increasing amounts of entropy or dominance of one form or another, you will get fat paid
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:31 PM   #5
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Spoken like the moral authority of revscene. Curtsey

You sound like a girl who is angry over getting dumped after like 5 years and 20 pump and dumps later
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:36 PM   #6
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Old 07-07-2015, 07:40 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Now this bugs me for a lot of reasons, some obvious, but some not so much. Obviously he should be commended for his ability to think for himself, and not simply follow ridiculous orders. I would certainly never punish and employee if they refused to follow an order and ended up making the correct decision.

The bigger concern I have is the severity of his punishment. You look at other prevalent cases of suspension in some other government organizations and it doesn't take long to see a big gap. I hate to do it, but RCMP and local police departments immediately come to mind. Over the years I have seen so many cases of RCMP members who have been relegated to desk duties, or suspended with pay, and I always ask myself "WOW he did that and still gets to go to work? I would have motherfucking fired his ass."

I decided to dig up some cases:

UPDATE: RCMP Inspector Tim Shields suspended with pay - BC | Globalnews.ca



Const. Taylor Robinson suspended 6 days for shoving woman on Vancouver street - British Columbia - CBC News



Court fines North Vancouver RCMP officer who blew through speed trap as 'prank'



UPDATED: Cops drive drunk, get into fights, humiliate female co-workers: annual report | (CKNW AM) AM980



Police officers busted for cocaine, hiring prostitute, drunk driving - British Columbia - CBC News



I am likely missing so many, I remember many about impaired police officers, or police using excessive force, etc.

My point is that how sad is this... That we allow all these bad officers who taint the name of all those who serve and protect us off basically scot free, and this poor dude who was just trying to do the right thing is suspended without pay indefinitely?

This system is fucking ridiculous.
All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:02 PM   #8
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All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.
Right. Makes sense, and not directed at you since you made it clear you don't agree with it. But for the sake of conversation:

But that raises a different issue. Does "Don't drink and drive" have to be a direct command from a superior in order for officers not to commit a crime?

Like what every night before the PO's leave to go home, their commanding officer is supposed to come in and rally them all and tell them; "oh by the way guys, on your way home try not kill a bystander, run over a puppy, assault my grandma, or do any illegal drugs".

Like come on man.

There is no justification why not listening to an order should be treated more severely than BREAKING THE LAWS THAT APPLY TO EVERYONE.

This is exactly why police shouldn't be allowed to police themselves, an authority needs to be set up which has oversight over the RCMP and Local detachments. You can't expect the RCMP to investigate WVPD, and vice versa when there is problems.
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Old 07-07-2015, 08:06 PM   #9
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Old 07-07-2015, 11:47 PM   #10
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Old 07-08-2015, 05:47 AM   #11
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All bad, but none of those are disobeying the direct orders of a superior.

Most of these types of organizations (RCMP, BCAS, etc.) are run in a paramilitary-like fashion and things like insubordination are treated severely.

For the record, I'm not saying I agree with it.
It's definitely not. Military actually has integrity and SEVERELY punishes it's members who disobey the law, let alone an order.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:17 AM   #12
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yup, total bullshit. People move to where bears are. Then the bears look for food there, obviously. Then we shoot and kill the bears. Way to go humanity.

As much as I understand the logic behind, it doesn't mean I like it or have to agree with it. It's like North Van even. People are like, "OMG, there's a bear in my yard!!" Well no shit, they were there long before you y0!. Why are you moving into bear territory then shocked when bears come around.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:49 AM   #13
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Big fucking deal, black bears are not endangered.

This article is fucked, all it does is play on the "cuddwy wuddwy" factor of baby bears.

I can't imagine that the guy who issued the orders to shoot the bear would have made the decision arbitrarily.

So what if this guy didn't shoot the bears, and then they grow up to terrorize and potentially harm humans in the future? Will this guy still deserve people calling him a "hero"?
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:04 AM   #14
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Big fucking deal, black bears are not endangered.

This article is fucked, all it does is play on the "cuddwy wuddwy" factor of baby bears.

I can't imagine that the guy who issued the orders to shoot the bear would have made the decision arbitrarily.

So what if this guy didn't shoot the bears, and then they grow up to terrorize and potentially harm humans in the future? Will this guy still deserve people calling him a "hero"?
Right so we should just go and exterminate every bear, because they could possibly pose a risk to people in the future? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit

And go back and actually read the article, the expert on bears (the place where the conservation officer took the bears), said that these two cubs are PERFECT candidates for rehabilitation and release. So obviously the person who made the call to kill them did make either an arbitrary decision, or a misinformed one.

To punish an employee when he decided to do the right thing, and ended up making the correct decision is just idiotic.

To further that if you read what I posted this issue raises a great concern about how governmental organizations run themselves. If this single action by this conservation officer is enough to deserve suspension without pay, do you still believe that a Police officer caught doing drugs, or driving drunk deserves the same punishment?

I'd definitely argue not, doing drugs, or driving while impaired is a WAY WORSE crime than what this conservation officer did.

So my question to you: Who's punishment is incorrect? is this guy's punishment too harsh, or is the punishment for PO's who act out too light?
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:23 AM   #15
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are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?
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Old 07-08-2015, 09:43 AM   #16
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are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?
RCMP do not have a union
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Old 07-08-2015, 10:24 AM   #17
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are conservation officers part of a union? maybe rcmp's union is stronger and protects them better?

the article noted the baby bears went back to the same place to look for their mom
does that pose a risk that they will continue to be in the area hoping their mom will return in that area?

They will be flown far away and reintroduced to the wild. The order probably came because the Mother bear was teaching her young to feed from easy food sources rather than getting it from the wild. If they already learned that humans are easy to get food from (this is probably the concern of the person whom gave the order) then they will likely be a risk later in life. However, giving them the chance to be looked over and find out for sure was the right call. If they were in fact compromised the Vet could put them down just as easily as the CO.

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Old 07-08-2015, 10:44 AM   #18
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Lulz @ people's priorities.

At the end of the day it's two bears, two. People were about to riot over spending 100k on yoga day, yet you're willing to spend 50k+ to save a couple Cubs?
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Old 07-08-2015, 12:00 PM   #19
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I love how people oversimplify wild animals as if relocating them is free and guarantees they'll live a problem free life off in the wild. If their mother never taught them how to get food properly or they're too young to do it themselves what are the odds they'll be alive a year from now? What's the budget like for things like this, is there plenty of money to relocate two large, non-endangered animals or is that going to impact the ability to help endangered animals later on?

It's all well and good for some moron like Ricky Gervais to make demands based on ignorance, but here in the real world people need to think of the whole picture before throwing money at things.

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TL;DR - Conservation officer refuses order to put down two innocent cubs, takes them to a shelter, shelter says they are perfect for re-rehabilitation and re-release. Officer still gets suspended without pay.
Is suspending him without pay not a normal response to something that needs to be investigated after an order was ignored? Otherwise if you let him keep on working then you also need to let anyone else whose actions are being investigated for ignoring an order keep on working as well, which sounds like a pretty stupid idea.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:04 PM   #20
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I get the response about the cubs, I couldn't care less about how people feel about them, but I would be way happier to spend 100k on those two cubs, rather than seeing crusty cunt and her saggy tits doing downward dog on some bridge.

Regardless that's why I have been focusing more on the punishment of this conservation officer in relation to other vaguely similar suspensions.

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Is suspending him without pay not a normal response to something that needs to be investigated after an order was ignored? Otherwise if you let him keep on working then you also need to let anyone else whose actions are being investigated for ignoring an order keep on working as well, which sounds like a pretty stupid idea.
Here:

B.C. RCMP officer investigated after violent arrest caught on tape - British Columbia - CBC News

RCMP officer punches a helpless handcuffed kid in the head on video, and he was placed on desk duties while the investigation was completed.

That's the norm that I have seen all the time, while an investigation occurs most officers are placed on desk duties or paid suspension.



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Originally Posted by underscore View Post
I love how people oversimplify wild animals as if relocating them is free and guarantees they'll live a problem free life off in the wild. If their mother never taught them how to get food properly or they're too young to do it themselves what are the odds they'll be alive a year from now? What's the budget like for things like this, is there plenty of money to relocate two large, non-endangered animals or is that going to impact the ability to help endangered animals later on?
And your more of an expert on the matter than the guy who does this for a living? You know the Campbell guys who has devoted his life to these animals, and has a permit and education on rehabilitating bears?

Cause that dude said SPECIFICALLY and I quote:

Quote:
Campbell, whose facility has a provincial permit to rehabilitate black bears, called the order to kill the cubs unusual, since they were fearful of humans and good candidates for release.
So I really don't know who to believe here, some random guy, or someone who actually has training and education in the matter....
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:12 PM   #21
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I don't want 100k spent on two cubs, period. Hell, IMO 20k is too much tax money to try and rehabilitate and relocate them, especially if this is standard operating procedure.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:16 PM   #22
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I don't want 100k spent on two cubs, period. Hell, IMO 20k is too much tax money to try and rehabilitate and relocate them, especially if this is standard operating procedure.
DO you have any clue how much it costs for the process? or are you just pulling numbers out of your ass?



FOCUS people, answer my big question:

Do you believe that this guys deserves a harsher punishment than a police officer who drove while being drunk?
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:32 PM   #23
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In before David Booth files application to adopt said bears
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:33 PM   #24
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Let's see..

Minimum 2 CO's + to capture them, plus the time to set up a trap, check it daily, gas to drive to the location, equipment involved in relocation.

Then either drive or fly them to some of the remote camps where they will go through MONTHS of rehabilitation and adaptation, the costs of food, staff, logistics, your guess

After months to a year of rehab, once again tranquilize/sedate them, find a suitable location to relocate them, have numerous CO's once again drive/fly them to location, tag/track and release once again.

I absolutely guarantee you the minimum in the administration costs alone through this procedure are no less than $20,000.

If it is standard operating procedures to kill Cubs in this situation then comparing them to the joke Monty Robinson is irrelevant.
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Old 07-08-2015, 01:48 PM   #25
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Besides the point, there's dirt balls in chilliwack going and killing spring bears completely legally and dumping the meat in the garbage by the time they get home and people are concerned with two fucking Cubs because they think they are the reincarnation of Winnie the Pooh? Fuck
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