Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[bcrdukes]

Evidence that you guys are being paid way too much and have way too much free time on your hands. Go to hell, all of you.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

That's kind of shitty, part of the allure of an EV is being able to precondition the cabin.

have to open app to toggle it, no native scheduling
some have work arounded this with iOS Shortcuts

[JDMDreams]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

We got hit from the side at a pretty high speed, it ain't gonna save your bacon.

O I meant how can the lucid drive though the garage, wouldn't the auto brake kick in

[noclue]

Evofire should testdrive the VW bangbus as a counterpoint and the facelift XC90 plug in. Good promos for both and volvo is the leader in safety.

[twitchyzero]

xc90 2nd facelift means it's all sorted now?

nearly $100k and still fwd-bias is a bit of a bummer

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by RabidRat

I wish mine would go in spectacular fashion.

Not even so much as a warning light. So they won't do anything about the terrible fuel economy. I bet the fkers masked out the codes so the extended warranty wouldn't kick in til after expiry.

Ugh you poor bastard. You’re the only guy i know who bought a used Toyota that’s kind of a lemon. Everyone else with a used Toyota laughs all the way to the bank (saving money!).

[Ding]

https://www.facebook.com/share/1H5L9CuVod/

Wow they are getting cheaper.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by noclue

Evofire should testdrive the VW bangbus as a counterpoint and the facelift XC90 plug in. Good promos for both and volvo is the leader in safety.

Originally Posted by Ding

https://www.facebook.com/share/1H5L9CuVod/

Wow they are getting cheaper.

I showed wife this ad and she said no.

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

O I meant how can the lucid drive though the garage, wouldn't the auto brake kick in

Most cars will let you override the auto brake if you insist.

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

xc90 2nd facelift means it's all sorted now?

nearly $100k and still fwd-bias is a bit of a bummer

I'm not terribly interested in the XC90 because of the 4 cylinder. If we are dropping coin on a Volvo it'll be a Polestar.

[Hehe]

The only thing about legacy automakers' EV is that they are all kinda half-assed effort. BEV or PHEV included.

They don't really want to go all-in to jeopardize their ICE customers and yet neither their ICE nor EV offering are really appealing. And kinda jump back and forth between where to put their focus on.

Porsche is probably the most clear example in that sense and hands down the worst victim.

They finally release the utter-expensive Cayenne EV in next gen body while still selling their ICE counterpart in the old-gen form. The question becomes, for those diehard Porsche fans who doesn't want to go EV or can't afford, there's little to no reason to buy their 2026 ICE Cayenne. And yet ICE Cayenne and Macan is basically what's keeping Porsche afloat.

And their 911 is super boring. Sure they are track monsters. But how many of GT3RS/GT2RS owners would actually take them to track? And outside of track, they are barely on par with EVs that are a fraction of their price.

IMO the decay of legacy automakers is going to happen at a speed that no one can believe.
We used to want larger engines variant or quasi-supercars for performance. Nowadays, EVs that runs 1/4miles in 10s and does 0-60 less than 4s or even 3s can be had for less than 100k. An ICE with that kind of performance are all 100k+ if not hypercar territory.

If the West allow Chinese EVs to flood the market, ICE would be history.

We are talking about cars that are cheaper to buy, run and maintain while being faster and more comfortable to ICE vehicles.

Not to mention very few kids nowadays that I talk to are into ICE cars at all. Every one of them know Tesla and their models (S3XY+CT) but not that many know what Porsche has on its lineup. Once us, pretty much the last generation who has any idea about ICE cars stop being the major consumption group, ICE is cooked. They would most likely be bought only for nostalgic reasons.

And this is across the social spectrum. One of my most conservative friend who has long held the believe that he must have an ICE in his house just gone full EV. The reason was simply he was no longer driving his ICE at all since he got his Model X other than sometimes taking it out for a spin making sure battery wouldn't die. His ICE had less than 20k on the odo and this is a 4yrs old car. He's now getting a second Tesla (Model Y performance) so he doesn't need to always take out a large car when going out just by himself.

[Manic!]

A new GT3RS gains 100k in value as soon as you drive it off the lot. A Tesla loses as money as soon as you drive it off the lot.

[EvoFire]

I'd argue none of the German makers have half-assed efforts. All of them are full assed, but they've fallen behind initially as they invested later and are either still on their first gen or second gen architectures whereas Tesla is on their 3rd/4th gen stuff?

Where it really hurts is the perception. BMW just hit 1000km on a single charge with their iX3, there's a bit of gaming the system but I have zero doubts that Tesla can do that. That doesn't change the fact that people think Tesla makes a better EV when they actually no longer 100% have that edge. They are still better than what Toyota and Nissan puts out, but they aren't better than Mercedes or BMW or GM. Audi/Porsche is a bit questionable imo.

Tesla is getting their teeth kicked in by the Chinese makers as well in China.

Here's where I don't have a lot of info (practically zero), Chinese makers. They make good drivetrains so I've heard, but I don't know if the rest of the car keeps up like how Tesla made good drivetrains but their rest of the car were subpar. We see that with some of the startups like Rivian which, depending where you hit can't be repaired. I do not believe the Chinese makers are as glorious as some people make them out to be but time will tell. They probably aren't the disaster that is Vinfast, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are just kind of like Teslas and Hyundais, where it looks fancy or sold as high end but shit doesn't wear well.

[Traum]

There are some stuff that Hehe is correct about, and some that are obviously wrong.

I agree with his comment that traditional auto manufacturers are pretty half a$$ed with their EV offerings. Their minds and workflow are too rigidly defined by the experience they have gained from building ICE cars, so part of the problem is they don't know any better. At the same time, they are also too conservative to full embrace EV development. Different manufacturers are a mix big of different reasons why their EVs aren't that good.

But in Porsche's case, I wouldn't really call them half a$$ed. Until recently, they wanted to convert their entire fleet except for the 911 into EVs. But what's happening is, instead, I'd say they are conservative and overly cautious in their approach, and they lacked the expertise to build an EV properly because it is really their first attempt.

It is entirely possible that I am biased bcos I am participant in the local amateur motorsports scene, so I see quite a few Porsche owners taking their Porsches, including GT cars to motorsports events. Some of the owners that take their Porsches to the track may not be hardcore track addicts, but they are certainly car (or maybe just Porsche) enthusiasts, and they are not afraid to take their Porsches to the track, even though they may or may not be chasing PBs.

I don't have enough 1st hand experience with EVs to make any informed judgements on enjoyable they are to drive. But what I can tell you is -- while the Model S Plaid that I drove at the track was insanely powerful, I knew it was no sports car as soon as I took the first turn in it. A sports car is so much more than just having a lot of power. And just being fast in the straight is very different than a car that is just fast.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Here's where I don't have a lot of info (practically zero), Chinese makers. They make good drivetrains so I've heard, but I don't know if the rest of the car keeps up like how Tesla made good drivetrains but their rest of the car were subpar. We see that with some of the startups like Rivian which, depending where you hit can't be repaired. I do not believe the Chinese makers are as glorious as some people make them out to be but time will tell. They probably aren't the disaster that is Vinfast, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are just kind of like Teslas and Hyundais, where it looks fancy or sold as high end but shit doesn't wear well.

Chinese EV manufacturers are very, very good at making interiors as well as in-car tech stuff. Because those are the elements that consumers directly interact with, when those things are really well made, the EV itself gives off the impresison that the car is really well made.

Now, whether the vehicle quality is actually there or not is an entirely separate question. IMO it is pointless to look at one-off or low production examples like the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra or Yangwang U9 Xtreme and use those to make any value judgements on whether Chinese EVs are good vehicles. For consumer products, you really need to look at their mass production models and see whether they are well made. And much like EvoFire here, I don't have much of any experience to know how good they are.

[JDMDreams]

Ev aren't great for track but how many average new car buyers are buying new cars to go to the track. They are buying it to be dailies, how many people daily their gt3. Ev as daily cannot be beat if you buy the right one, cough Tesla. Pre conditioning, charging programming, etc it just works. Let alone self driving. Not having to pay for gas. Quiet drive, no rough idling.