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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 03-12-2016, 06:29 PM   #26
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Old 03-12-2016, 06:46 PM   #27
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Huh?

No most people in here believe that if you have nothing to hide just answer the fucking questions and move on with your life.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:56 PM   #28
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What a dumb piece of shit that guy is.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:24 AM   #29
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Can't believe how many people are just straight-out calling the guy an idiot. Imagine if there were dozens of checkpoints along the canadian border. On the 99, fraser hwy, #1 hwy, etc.

That's exactly what these checkpoints are in the video. Checkpoints inside the country.

Now imagine the employees (CBSA, immigrations) acted like they had the right to question you, search you and command you when you know they actually don't. Personally I would comply just to save time and energy but i would definitely be irritated. And for those that stood up for their rights? I would not judge them at all.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:59 AM   #30
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This is the type of attitude that encourages more checkpoints. Can't lose soon 50% of the population will have a nice cushy gov job while they wonder why the economy is going to sh!t.
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Can't believe how many people are just straight-out calling the guy an idiot. Imagine if there were dozens of checkpoints along the canadian border. On the 99, fraser hwy, #1 hwy, etc.

That's exactly what these checkpoints are in the video. Checkpoints inside the country.

Now imagine the employees (CBSA, immigrations) acted like they had the right to question you, search you and command you when you know they actually don't. Personally I would comply just to save time and energy but i would definitely be irritated. And for those that stood up for their rights? I would not judge them at all.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:29 AM   #31
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Huh?

No most people in here believe that if you have nothing to hide just answer the fucking questions and move on with your life.
Agree,I couldn't imagine going to a canucks game at rogers arena and start telling the Security guard NO I know my rights!!!..Let me in with Free Will its my right!,This is canada!,not usa! that would def turn 10 seconds into 40 minutes.
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:49 PM   #32
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I see some of you guys are saying they should comply to the police or border security if you have nothing to hide or not committing a crime.

Any lawyer would tell you should should never consent to searches and get out of the situation by asking if you're legally detained or free to go.

The reason behind is, so many innocent people comply to the police and consent to searches because they have nothing to hide.

The problem is, police search can be and will be messy.
They will take out your dashboard, seats, door panels, throw all your baggage around, they can do whatever they want to make sure you're not hiding any drugs.
Police is not obligated to reinstall door panels or dashboard for you, also if they throw baggage around and lose/break something, they are also not obligated to pay for the damage.
You might think you can file a lawsuit against the police department, however it will be a several years of battle + the probability of you winning the case is very slim because you have already consent to the searches.

I am not suggesting you should be confrontational or arrogant towards the police officers, you should show some respect, but I am just saying that just because you're not committing a crime or nothing to hide, you shouldn't simply comply to everything they say.
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Old 03-13-2016, 01:04 PM   #33
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Sorry thats not even in the same ballpark. Public road that your tax dollars have paid for vs a private event and establishment.
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Agree,I couldn't imagine going to a canucks game at rogers arena and start telling the Security guard NO I know my rights!!!..Let me in with Free Will its my right!,This is canada!,not usa! that would def turn 10 seconds into 40 minutes.
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Old 03-13-2016, 01:15 PM   #34
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I see some of you guys are saying they should comply to the police or border security if you have nothing to hide or not committing a crime.

Any lawyer would tell you should should never consent to searches and get out of the situation by asking if you're legally detained or free to go.

The reason behind is, so many innocent people comply to the police and consent to searches because they have nothing to hide.

The problem is, police search can be and will be messy.
They will take out your dashboard, seats, door panels, throw all your baggage around, they can do whatever they want to make sure you're not hiding any drugs.
Police is not obligated to reinstall door panels or dashboard for you, also if they throw baggage around and lose/break something, they are also not obligated to pay for the damage.
You might think you can file a lawsuit against the police department, however it will be a several years of battle + the probability of you winning the case is very slim because you have already consent to the searches.

I am not suggesting you should be confrontational or arrogant towards the police officers, you should show some respect, but I am just saying that just because you're not committing a crime or nothing to hide, you shouldn't simply comply to everything they say.
Nobody said you should consent to a search, that's your choice.

But to pull up to a roadblock and plead the fifth, or refuse to tell the officer your name or your citizenship is completely different than consenting to a search.

Now I did consent to a search of my vehicle at a roadblock about a year ago, the officer opened my trunk, closed my trunk, opened my back door looked on the seat, opened my water bottle smelled it, and allowed me on my way.

I knew the exact reason he did that check, because my passenger reaked of booze, and he thought maybe I had open liquor in my car.

So I disagree that they will rip open your dashboard and shit, maybe if your POS stinks of cronik cause you hot boxed the crap out of it and then hit the road.
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Old 03-13-2016, 04:31 PM   #35
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i hate to say it, but this was a pretty good quote from another thread.

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It should be policescene.net. Wee woo wee woo look what we got here someone trying to go against the system! get him guys!
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:48 PM   #36
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I think it's pathetic when people think every situation is so black and white. In other words, you have the die-hard blue supporters who think if ANYONE speaks out against law enforcement or their tactics, they MUST be anti-police.

Well the truth of the matter is, law enforcement in both countries (Canada/US) are public servants. They are hired and paid by the tax payers to serve the public. Not the serve public that complies with every request they make. So the notion of "...we'll see what happens when these people need help from law enforcement one day" is absurd.

Does this mean you should ABUSE law enforcement, mock them, ridicule them? Of course not! But the laws of our countries are designed in such a way that give police officers boundaries to work within. But there is a fundamental difference between a person carrying an assault riffle as he walks on the sidewalk with his open/carry permit to incite police from a driver of a vehicle who is driving down the road and is being asked to comply with targeted requests.

I speak from a perspective today where I rarely get pulled over and hardly experience road blocks. Try and step out of the box for a bit and imagine how a person who gets repeatedly targeted because of the car they drive or the way they look. Would you still comply with every lawful and unlawful order made?

inb4 im labelled a cop hater.
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:58 PM   #37
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I've seen checkpoints in the USA going over things like the Hoover Dam... All they did was put mirrors under the car checking for explosive devices... So if these are how they're being manned now they sure have stepped it up, and not in a good way.
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Old 03-13-2016, 06:59 PM   #38
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I'm sure you'd have no problem unlocking your phone for an officer if he wears his shiny badge and asks nicely right? Do you lock your doors at home? You do? Why? You got a grow op your trying to hide or something?
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Huh?

No most people in here believe that if you have nothing to hide just answer the fucking questions and move on with your life.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:18 PM   #39
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I'm sure you'd have no problem unlocking your phone for an officer if he wears his shiny badge and asks nicely right? Do you lock your doors at home? You do? Why? You got a grow op your trying to hide or something?
You are really fucking dumb.

Theres a difference between rolling down your window fully and politely answering "where are you going", and unlocking your phone for a police officer.

The difference is that the latter I have never been asked by a PO, and the former happens to me all the time.

Out of all the videos posted on here, the police for the most part we're asking reasonable questions, granted I don't really know about these checkpoints or the situation with them. Lets stick to examples here in fucking Vancouver, or atleast Canada where we all live, not some bullshit checkpoints around the mexican border.

I have never come up to a checkpoint here in canada which had anything wrong with it, I've been asked general questions not because the officer cared how my day was, but because that's a nice convenient and less obtrusive way of smelling my breathe for alcohol. Where are you coming from, where are you going to, these are all questions to which 99.9% of the time PO's don't give a fuck the answer, its just a somewhat better question than have you had anything to drink, because it keeps you talking a bit longer than just saying a simple "no", that gives them the correct amount of time to judge if you are impaired. Let be honest somebody fleeing from a bank robbery isn't going to tell the PO the truth, that's not why they ask those questions.

Nobody has ever been able to provide me a clear video from somewhere even remotely local, where someone politely pulled up to a roadside block without having done anything wrong, answer the PO's questions nicely, and ended up getting their ass beat.

Instead we get examples like that kid 3 months back who rolled down his window 2", had weed in the car, and then when the police tells him to step out of the car doesn't comply and gets his window smashed the fuck in.

yeah sure "I wasn't doing anything wrong, no you don't smell weed officer, oh wait that ounce of weed ain't mine". get the fuck out of here.

Police aren't bad people, nobody resigns themselves to some shitty 70k a year job because they are some sort of power tripping sadist. I'd say to a large degree most of them just want to do a good job, and are proud to uphold the laws which keep our society going as opposed to falling into anarchy. Instead they get driven up the wall by loonies who pretend they have a degree in law after watching CSI/Law and order.

Even the cops who hand out shitty VI's or crap speeding tickets, it's not their fault law makers have set speed limits that are crap, or that you can't have front tint on your car. You should take that up with your MP, not some poor officer on the side of the road just doing his fucking job.

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I think it's pathetic when people think every situation is so black and white. In other words, you have the die-hard blue supporters who think if ANYONE speaks out against law enforcement or their tactics, they MUST be anti-police.
Agreed, has there been situations where police have previously over stepped their boundaries, absolutely, Rodney king anyone.

I think my main issue currently is that out of all the examples people seem to always give, for the most part the person in the video incites most of the shit they get thrown at them themselves.

Save for that example of that kid on a bike getting hit by that PO downtown, and maybe that cop in west van who was caught speeding as a practical joke. I vaguely remember some PO in west van also drinking and driving and getting let off, that type of stuff is bullshit, this is the type of shit you guys should be furious about.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:38 PM   #40
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You are really fucking dumb.
Well that's rude.

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Theres a difference between rolling down your window fully and politely answering "where are you going", and unlocking your phone for a police officer.
To you, that's an obvious difference but to me, there is an obvious similarity between both those scenarios. That is, you don't have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to
answer either of those questions.

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yeah sure "I wasn't doing anything wrong, no you don't smell weed officer, oh wait that ounce of weed ain't mine". get the fuck out of here.
Is the smell of weed grounds for reasonable suspicion?

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Police aren't bad people, nobody resigns themselves to some shitty 70k a year job because they are some sort of power tripping sadist. I'd say to a large degree most of them just want to do a good job, and are proud to uphold the laws which keep our society going as opposed to falling into anarchy. Instead they get driven up the wall by loonies who pretend they have a degree in law after watching CSI/Law and order.
The law is to be upheld and enforced and in doing so, it must be done so legally. You don't get to selectively pick and chose which laws are important enough to enforce and which ones you can bend yourself. I respect an officer's job and obligations to enforce the law but I never condemn bending the law or violating personal rights to obtain an ends, no matter how minor those rights may seem to you. If we bend the rules and let officers search people and try to arrest people unlawfully, we are setting ourselves up for failure as society.

I never support people who make a special effort to incite reactions from officers or any profession really. You're doing something on purpose to get a reaction, and when you get it, you're all offended? I don't support that at all. But I do support a person's individual right to be free from unreasonable search and seizures and arbitrary arrests.

If you value the need for laws to be upheld so bad, why do you condone an unlawful search by a police officer? Are certain classes of people permitted to bend the laws to their favour over others? All that being said, I think there is an appropriate way to have a conversation about this topic and calling someone "fucking dumb" is certainly not the way.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:49 PM   #41
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IIRC, the smell of weed is reasonable grounds for a search as it is an indicator of a crime taking place.
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Old 03-13-2016, 11:32 PM   #42
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The law is to be upheld and enforced and in doing so, it must be done so legally. You don't get to selectively pick and chose which laws are important enough to enforce and which ones you can bend yourself. I respect an officer's job and obligations to enforce the law but I never condemn bending the law or violating personal rights to obtain an ends, no matter how minor those rights may seem to you. If we bend the rules and let officers search people and try to arrest people unlawfully, we are setting ourselves up for failure as society.

I never support people who make a special effort to incite reactions from officers or any profession really. You're doing something on purpose to get a reaction, and when you get it, you're all offended? I don't support that at all. But I do support a person's individual right to be free from unreasonable search and seizures and arbitrary arrests.

If you value the need for laws to be upheld so bad, why do you condone an unlawful search by a police officer? Are certain classes of people permitted to bend the laws to their favour over others? All that being said, I think there is an appropriate way to have a conversation about this topic and calling someone "fucking dumb" is certainly not the way.
I agree with all of this, My view actually syncs almost entirely with yours Parm. Note that I never called you fucking dumb, just digitalis, who is taking what I post to the absolute extreme, he's taking my scenario and applying it to other situations, and as you pointed out every case is different.

I would never condone an unlawful search by police, yes I did mention that I allowed my vehicle to be searched, but that was a personal decision at the time as I felt the reason the officer wanted to search my vehicle was valid.

If you read back you will notice I have only actually made one point over and over in this thread:

1. Be respectful

That means roll down your window fully, not because you have to, but because it makes the interaction much easier for everyone.

Don't be an asshole and make life difficult for the officer for no reason, if you don't want to answer a question in particular, that's fine, but understand you are required to provide identification and proof of registration, the reason for the stop is irrelevant, it has been proven time and time again that police here in Canada can just pull any vehicle over to check for license and registration.

Other than that situations need to be handled case by case and vary depending on the person.

Now the remainder here is my opinion, this is how I have found is the best to handle police, it has worked for me thus far, probably because in general I am a pretty law abiding citizen: There are people who take different approaches to dealing with the police, one method which I disagree with is to be combative with the officer, refusing to answer questions and stuff is fine, but when you are issued a direct order, for example; "step out of the vehicle", I ALMOST always comply. If they ask to search the vehicle I would say "no" in many instances; however if they say "We are going to conduct a search of your vehicle", I ain't gonna try and stop them.

What people need to understand is that the Law is not determined on the side of the road, that's what a court is for. If they do something illegal like getting you out of the car or searching without reasonable suspicion, then court is where that is determined.

You can absolutely do your part, and ask why? You are entitled to that explanation and if you are not given it then your case will get thrown out in due time, but resisting arrest on the side of the street because you have not been given a reason for your arrest I feel is the wrong way to try and uphold the law.
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Old 03-14-2016, 01:00 PM   #43
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I'm sorry for your failure to focus on the topic of the thread. Let me point a couple things out to you.
1. What is the first word of the topic? AMERICAN
2. Just because you chose to ignore the topic and bring in your own ideas about a drunk driving checkpoint clearly makes you the stupid one.
No they are in BRIGHT DAYLIGHT.
Stay the F out of the thread if you dont know what it's about.

If you allow law enforcement to operate on a guilty before being proven innocent or "i'm just doing my job leave me alone i'm a robot with no empthy or common sense taking orders from the bossman" is a VERY slippery slope.
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You are really fucking dumb.

Theres a difference between rolling down your window fully and politely answering "where are you going", and unlocking your phone for a police officer.

The difference is that the latter I have never been asked by a PO, and the former happens to me all the time.

Out of all the videos posted on here, the police for the most part we're asking reasonable questions, granted I don't really know about these checkpoints or the situation with them. Lets stick to examples here in fucking Vancouver, or atleast Canada where we all live, not some bullshit checkpoints around the mexican border.

I have never come up to a checkpoint here in canada which had anything wrong with it, I've been asked general questions not because the officer cared how my day was, but because that's a nice convenient and less obtrusive way of smelling my breathe for alcohol. Where are you coming from, where are you going to, these are all questions to which 99.9% of the time PO's don't give a fuck the answer, its just a somewhat better question than have you had anything to drink, because it keeps you talking a bit longer than just saying a simple "no", that gives them the correct amount of time to judge if you are impaired. Let be honest somebody fleeing from a bank robbery isn't going to tell the PO the truth, that's not why they ask those questions.

Nobody has ever been able to provide me a clear video from somewhere even remotely local, where someone politely pulled up to a roadside block without having done anything wrong, answer the PO's questions nicely, and ended up getting their ass beat.

Instead we get examples like that kid 3 months back who rolled down his window 2", had weed in the car, and then when the police tells him to step out of the car doesn't comply and gets his window smashed the fuck in.

yeah sure "I wasn't doing anything wrong, no you don't smell weed officer, oh wait that ounce of weed ain't mine". get the fuck out of here.

Police aren't bad people, nobody resigns themselves to some shitty 70k a year job because they are some sort of power tripping sadist. I'd say to a large degree most of them just want to do a good job, and are proud to uphold the laws which keep our society going as opposed to falling into anarchy. Instead they get driven up the wall by loonies who pretend they have a degree in law after watching CSI/Law and order.

Even the cops who hand out shitty VI's or crap speeding tickets, it's not their fault law makers have set speed limits that are crap, or that you can't have front tint on your car. You should take that up with your MP, not some poor officer on the side of the road just doing his fucking job.



Agreed, has there been situations where police have previously over stepped their boundaries, absolutely, Rodney king anyone.

I think my main issue currently is that out of all the examples people seem to always give, for the most part the person in the video incites most of the shit they get thrown at them themselves.

Save for that example of that kid on a bike getting hit by that PO downtown, and maybe that cop in west van who was caught speeding as a practical joke. I vaguely remember some PO in west van also drinking and driving and getting let off, that type of stuff is bullshit, this is the type of shit you guys should be furious about.
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:13 PM   #44
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Whats very clear to me is how the majority of people in this thread are of the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset. Not surprising I suppose.
Some old guy once told me society is exactly how it should be.
So if the gen pop chooses to not question authority so be it.
Can't wait to see the authority Trudeau will have in play be the time his term is up, make bike boy look like an amateur .
Considering I had a stolen car recovered at a random road block, I'm perfectly okay with them. If the thief had simply opted to not answer any questions and didn't try to bluff his way around, I'm sure my car would have been stripped or burnt to the ground a few days later.

And I don't think anyone is saying that we agree with people being guilty before proven innocent. The law is written in such a way in both the USA and Canada that allows police forces to do random road checks. No, it doesn't say that you're required to consent to searches or even answer the questions, but I'm sure many people are willing to answer a couple of quick "Where are you heading" and similar questions instead of making a point by pleading the fifth and just generally being a pain in the ass. If nothing else, you're holding up the line for everyone else behind you who likely has a destination and don't appreciate yet another hold up.

Like someone else shared, I've also consented to a quick search once before. I was also driving a friend home who was very clearly drunk and chances are the officer couldn't tell if the smell of alcohol was coming from just him or me as well. Considering I was run off the road by a drunk driver many years ago and to this day still deal with the resulting injuries, as well as having a friend killed by another drunk driver, I again have no problem with officers doing stuff like that.

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People in the US, except the elite, are under the laws of Washington D.C., not the constitution. \You can look it up, its laws are exclusive as is the 'City of London' and the Vatican.
Funny. My family in New York are what you would consider the "1%" and they get stuck in the same road blocks and are bound by the same laws as the rest of the population. Never seen them get treated any differently than the rest of the plebs.
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Old 03-14-2016, 03:38 PM   #45
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To you, that's an obvious difference but to me, there is an obvious similarity between both those scenarios. That is, you don't have a LEGAL OBLIGATION to answer either of those questions.
While that is true, don't forget the officers don't have a legal obligation to cut you breaks or give you warnings either.
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Considering I had a stolen car recovered at a random road block, I'm perfectly okay with them. The law is written in such a way in both the USA and Canada that allows police forces to do random road checks.
you might be surprised to know that roadblocks are not in any way meant to check for criminal activity. I have no issue in principle with roadblocks in canada as they are currently used. i would be very much against immigration checkpoints or anything else outside the scope of what is currently allowed.

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Random and roadblock stops are saved by s. 1 due to the purpose of the stops. The purpose is road safety which is a broad public concern. These stops are authorised by law to check on matters such as sobriety, licensing, insurance and the mechanical fitness of the vehicle. Further, these stops are designed to be a brief interference with a motoristís right to travel about freely. However, random stops and roadblocks are limited to these purposes and do not give the police an unchecked power to investigate any and all suspected criminal activity.
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Old 03-14-2016, 05:33 PM   #47
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Fuckin idiots. All of them.
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Old 03-14-2016, 06:25 PM   #48
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While that is true, don't forget the officers don't have a legal obligation to cut you breaks or give you warnings either.
You have now taken the discussion to a completely different level. Because a police officer makes a personal decision not to enforce a fine or violation we should from time to time be accepting to have our constitutional rights violated?

Please...this isn't a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" type of a situation. You're entitled to treat it as such, but at the end of the day, any violation of my rights should not be permitted in our society. The system is setup in such a way so that law enforcement and our judicial system can deal with scenarios without having to resort to constitutional violations.
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Old 03-14-2016, 11:48 PM   #49
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Funny. My family in New York are what you would consider the "1%" and they get stuck in the same road blocks and are bound by the same laws as the rest of the population. Never seen them get treated any differently than the rest of the plebs.
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:42 AM   #50
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you might be surprised to know that roadblocks are not in any way meant to check for criminal activity. I have no issue in principle with roadblocks in canada as they are currently used. i would be very much against immigration checkpoints or anything else outside the scope of what is currently allowed.
Yup. The guy was caught trying to pass himself off as me when he handed my insurance papers over without a driver's license.
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