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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 08-27-2016, 01:21 PM   #51
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so whats going to happen in a few years when they come up with the same bullshit excuses and up the insurance rates again? we are going to get rammed up the ass thanks to these fucktards who run icbc....
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Old 08-27-2016, 01:42 PM   #52
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When you have ICBC operating a monopoly on vehicle insurance in B.C, this rate hikes are bound to happen.

It will never happen but if we have more insurance companies in this province offering services, then rates would be much more competitive.

B.C. = Bring Cash. We need Geico!
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Old 08-27-2016, 02:13 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by pastarocket View Post
When you have ICBC operating a monopoly on vehicle insurance in B.C, this rate hikes are bound to happen.

It will never happen but if we have more insurance companies in this province offering services, then rates would be much more competitive.

B.C. = Bring Cash. We need Geico!
We've had this discussion before. The general consensus from anyone who's lived outside of BC who has dealt with private insurance tends to side with the fact it's a PITA. Myself included. I'll stay with icbc thanks.
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Old 08-27-2016, 09:45 PM   #54
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Since you asked.



No need for a "pro" install when it's only 2 wires to hook one up. If a hardware failure makes me instantly 60% at fault you've just killed any incentive to having a dash cam. The cameras and cards typically only last a few years in the heat and cold we see, and most people aren't proactive enough to be checking that their camera and card are working on a regular basis.



What kind of information could you get from a diagnostic port that tells you if someone's actually a "safe" driver? Nothing in there tells you if the person runs red lights or makes unsafe lane changes. I also don't share any of that crap you listed.

1. Forget about having a pro install and all that crap. You tell ICBC you have a camera installed, they say okay, here is a $50 a year rebate. If the camera fails or driver fails to provide the video when asked for from ICBC, ICBC should get the 50 bucks back. AKA you have claimed you had a working camera the past three years, yet this year when you got into an accident the camera wasn't working. Very simple you owe ICBC all the $50 rebates you received all those previous years. So you would owe ICBC $150.

2. The devices that he is talking about do actually exist, they have shock and yaw rate sensors, as well as GPS, and receive all the throttle and brake inputs through the OBD2. The idea being that people who don't have sharp throttle or brake inputs and don't drive around jerky all the time receive rebates, those who driving around at WOT or hard on the brakes all the time receive a penalty. Then you curve the data so that most people are at an even threshold. It also tracks things like the times during the day you drive, where you drive, where you park, how many KM's you drive, all this information can be used to further analyze how likely someone is to get into an accident. And the more of this data a company collects, the more they can accurately raise and lower rates depending on certain factors.

These devices have been used successfully in a few places, albeit there has been issues and there is many people who don't like the idea.

Here is a good story on them:

Car-tracking device could lower premiums, insurers claim - Business - CBC News
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:44 PM   #55
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Rise in ICBC rates met with anger
Published:
August 28, 2016
Updated:
August 28, 2016 12:34 PM PDT


Rise in ICBC rates met with anger | The Province


ICBC is applying for another insurance rate hike. NICK PROCAYLO / Vancouver Sun

Letters: ICBC, RCMP, Blackberry Picking

Re: ‘Perfect storm’ hits ICBC, Aug. 26

Canada was built on the spirit of competition and a robust free enterprise system. ICBC is a monopoly, as we are required to purchase our basic insurance from them. For many years now, I have purchased my optional insurance from independent and very competitive companies, saving myself many hundreds of dollars each year. At a combined rate increase of over 10 per cent in two years, I wonder how much money we could save if the monopoly was ended and free enterprise was allowed. I suspect ICBC would quickly become a thing of the past and we would all save a lot of money.

Tom Duncan, Chilliwack

Since 2012, Christy Clark’s provincial government has received $514 million from ICBC in “dividends” — political speak for another tax.

We have no choice in this as we cannot go to another insurance company to shop around for a better rate.


I have been driving here for over 37 years with no major claims, and as a senior my rates should be going down every year, not up. This is another example of government inefficiency at its worst. If you need anything screwed up or mismanaged, turn it over to federal, provincial or municipal governments.

G. Nordal, Langley

If claims are soaring, then start charging those who cause the accidents (at-fault drivers) and folks who drive while distracted. It’s not fair that drivers with good records keep having to pay for the bad drivers. ICBC doesn’t seem to get this simple solution. They just keep raising the rates for all of us!

Allan Watt, Penticton

Inflamed rhetoric ill-informed

Re: RCMP blasted for hijabs, Letters, Aug. 26

Apparently George Pearson just emerged from the soundproof bunker he’s been living in for the last 20 years as he is unaware the RCMP recruits gays and lesbians. Also, his belief that Canada is in a defined conflict with Islam is misinformed, to put it mildly. This kind of inflamed rhetoric is not helpful in an otherwise interesting debate on religious freedom vs. Canadian traditions regarding the wearing of hijabs by RCMP members.

Eric Ellemo, Chilliwack

Berry good advice

Re: Learning life’s lessons from picking blackberries, Column, Aug. 15

A very well-written piece on blackberries by Gordon Clark. But he missed a couple of very important points in his article.

Just like “don’t eat yellow snow”, never pick and immediately eat blackberries at or below waist level. I have seen too many guys and dogs peeing directly onto the blackberry bushes in my neighbourhood.

Bring a small- to medium-height stepladder to pick blackberries. Otherwise, the biggest and best blackberries are often well beyond reach. The ladder will also protect you from the thorns. Gently placing your stepladder against a large patch will not damage the well-developed bushes.

(I won’t divulge my favourite blackberry patches, as every year they produce bountiful levels of sweet and delicious fruit.)

And finally: After washing your blackberries, allow them to dry a little before placing them on a large cookie sheet (being careful to keep them separated), freeze them, and then with a spatula loosen them from the cookie sheet and dump them into a large zip-lock freezer bag for future baking or for anything you want to add a delicious burst of flavour to.

Happy picking!

Edward Rogers, Coquitlam
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Old 08-28-2016, 04:49 PM   #56
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ICBC wants to hike basic rates because of rising number of claims, legal costs
NDP's Adrian Dix calls government's management of ICBC a 'disaster'

CBC News Posted: Aug 25, 2016 11:13 AM PT Last Updated: Aug 26, 2016 10:17 AM PT


Basic auto insurance rates in B.C. could go up 4.9 per cent. (David Horemans/CBC)

ICBC wants to increase insurance rates by an average of $3.50 per month for basic coverage in order to offset costs caused by an increased number of claims and the rising cost of settling those claims.

The provincial insurance corporation said it is asking the British Columbia Utilities Commission to approve a 4.9 per cent rate increase because it says "external pressures" on insurance rates in B.C. are "accelerating."

"We certainly don't like to have to ask our customers to pay more but these external pressures are very real and they have created a perfect storm which we are struggling to hold off," Mark Blucher, president and CEO of ICBC said in a written release.

ICBC is filing an application with the British Columbia Utilities Commission, Aug. 25 to ask for the 4.9-per cent rate hike, effective Nov. 1. Last year ICBC raised rates by 5.5 per cent.

Blucher said the number of vehicle crashes across B.C. rose 15 per cent between 2013 and 2015.

Rates needed to be much higher

He said damage claims and injury claims are also up more than 10 per cent since 2012 at the same time that the cost of repairing vehicles and the legal and medical costs of settling claims has risen.

There are many reasons for this, Blucher said.

"The number of vehicles in the province are up by 3 million. People are driving more, and there a more cars on the road. Distracted driving is a big cause — 1 in 4 fatal accidents are caused by distracted drivers."


ICBC wants to increase insurance rates by an average $3.50 per month for basic coverage, to offset costs caused by an increased number of claims and the rising cost of settling those claims. (David Horemans/CBC)

To cover the costs of more crashes and claims, ICBC would actually need to increase the rate by 15.5 per cent — which would mean an extra $130 a year per customer, Blucher said.

Todd Stone, B.C.'s minister of transportation and infrastructure, said the government directed ICBC to transfer $472 million in income and capital from its optional insurance business to its basic insurance side to help make up the shortfall.

"Not only will these transfers help apply downward pressure on basic rates, they will also help to rebuild ICBC's basic capital," Stone said.

Stone added ICBC is not allowed to raise or lower basic rates by more than 1.5 per cent.

Announcement 'dishonest': NDP

ICBC said it has introduced other measures as well to help keep rates down.

One of them is computer software upgrade for the system that brokers use to register vehicles and sell auto insurance. ICBC said the new system is expected to save $90 to 100 million every year.

Adrian Dix, the B.C. NDP critic for ICBC, called the Liberal government's announcement on ICBC's proposed rate "dishonest."

"What they call management is trying to get through an election by misleading the voters," Dix said.

"They're transferring money in to try and pretend the financial situation is better than it is. That's a one-time transfer of 472 mil from the optional fund to avoid a major rate increase in an election year. But what it leaves is a disaster, a scooped-up hollow hole for whoever wins the next election."

Dix said ICBC has become more litigious, frequently battling in court over claims and has laid off front-line customer service staff. He also said its computer tech upgrade has taken many years to introduce.

"Before 2011, before this premier, under many governments, ICBC was a non-profit insurer that was focused on customer service. They have changed that and it has been a disaster."

CEO Mark Blucher disagreed with Dix, saying he was proud of the "tremendous job" with customer service. He also disputed the idea that the insurer had become more litigious.

"The accusation that we're more litigious is simply not true. [There were] 67,000 claims in 2015, 191 claims involved in a trial. The other 66,800 — we settled with our customers directly."

Though ICBC say claims are up, Blucher said the insurer has been successful in combating fraudulent claims, with a huge increase of emails and calls to the company's tip line to report potential fraud.

"[That's] good enough for us to now forecast that we're going to make savings of about $21 million over the next year by being able to avoid fraud."
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Old 08-29-2016, 06:37 AM   #57
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Here's a solution:

Reduce / Cut down the salaries of ICBC CEO and Senior Management.

Done.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:02 AM   #58
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Here's a solution:

Reduce / Cut down the salaries of ICBC CEO and Senior Management.

Done.
how much would you reduce / cut it down by?


Mark Blucher, ICBC’s CEO had a 35 per cent salary increase from 2011 to 2014, earning $430,095.

VP of Claims Brian Jarvis saw a 21 per cent increase during the same period, making $403,046.
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Old 08-29-2016, 07:16 AM   #59
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Old article, but the stats are quite staggering .

Metro Vancouver the luxury car capital of North America - BC | Globalnews.ca
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Old 08-29-2016, 03:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by J-Chow View Post
Here's a solution:

Reduce / Cut down the salaries of ICBC CEO and Senior Management.

Done.
Two things about that:

- The amount that you could conceivably cut their wages and bonuses by would be but a drop in the bucket compared to all the money spent on repairs and lawsuits

- If you cut their salary dramatically, you end up with a brain drain. The people competent enough to do those positions will work elsewhere for better pay. The ones who will still apply will be unqualified or likely wont work their hardest. I know that if I were able to do the same thing I do for work for more pay elsewhere, I'd jump at the chance. No point applying for a company paying half the rate as anywhere else for similar positions.
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Old 08-29-2016, 04:24 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by J-Chow View Post
Here's a solution:

Reduce / Cut down the salaries of ICBC CEO and Senior Management.

Done.
95 workers made more than $150,000 in 2015, 145 employees made more than $150,000 in 2014.


So we know the highest paid of those 95 earned just over $400k. lets say an average of $200k. So lets say youd be happy with a 20% wage reduction on them.

That would save $3.8million a year. ICBC had revenues of $4.5 BILLION in 2015.


Reducing upper management wages by 20% would lower their costs by ..... 0.0008%


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Old 08-29-2016, 07:40 PM   #62
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Not sure what this has to do with the thread? Unless you mean more expensive cars on the road = more expensive claims?
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:10 PM   #63
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Not sure what this has to do with the thread? Unless you mean more expensive cars on the road = more expensive claims?
it actually does.

Vancouver has the highest premiums in BC. Insurance in Kelowna is probably 30% less.

Imagine the cost difference in repairing fender benders on luxury cars vs normal cars.
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:13 PM   #64
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That's not really how insurance works.

Premiums being 30% less in Kelowna has nothing to do with 2,000 or so registered luxury supercars but rather the driving habits of the citizens of Vancouver. More condensed traffic = higher frequency of incidents.
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Old 08-29-2016, 08:18 PM   #65
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That's not really how insurance works.

Premiums being 30% less in Kelowna has nothing to do with 2,000 or so registered luxury supercars but rather the driving habits of the citizens of Vancouver. More condensed traffic = higher frequency of incidents.
it actually is a combination of both.

more likely to crash = higher premiums (vancouver)
more expensive to repair = higher premiums (vancouver's choice in cars)

Territories
ICBC divides the province into territories based on geography and population. A vehicle driven in a sparsely populated area has less chance of being involved in a crash than a vehicle driven in a densely populated area.

Make, model, and year of the vehicle (for Autoplan Optional insurance only)
Vehicles that cost more to repair or are stolen more often, cost more to insure.


not just supercars, but what do you think is more expensive to repair? an accord or an X5?



The accident frequency in vancouver makes your individual premiums higher. The higher expense for ICBC to repair more expensive cars makes the entire province's premiums higher to try to recover that repair cost.
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Old 08-30-2016, 07:55 AM   #66
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You realize that the comment you quoted was a news article talking about 2,000 luxury cars right?

If you want to talk about mercs and beamers sure, there are "more" of them I'm sure there are more higher end SUV/Sedans rolling around in the lower mainland vs the interior but you can't swing an argument when you initially were talking about "supercars"

Frequency of crashes plays a bigger part into premiums. Yes more expensive cars are more expensive to repair but injuries are more costly.
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:45 AM   #67
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Just think what would Americans do if this shit happens? LOL
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Old 08-30-2016, 03:40 PM   #68
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You realize that the comment you quoted was a news article talking about 2,000 luxury cars right?

If you want to talk about mercs and beamers sure, there are "more" of them I'm sure there are more higher end SUV/Sedans rolling around in the lower mainland vs the interior but you can't swing an argument when you initially were talking about "supercars"

Frequency of crashes plays a bigger part into premiums. Yes more expensive cars are more expensive to repair but injuries are more costly.
i didnt read the article to see it was talking about super cars. the title said luxury cars.

the part of the quoted post i was talking about was "Unless you mean more expensive cars on the road = more expensive claims"
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Old 08-30-2016, 09:37 PM   #69
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let's assume

monopoly means higher premiums but less PITA for claims
options means cheaper regularly costs but PITA during claims

I'd pick the latter to be honest...what's PITA is subjective
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:03 AM   #70
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This is the line of thinking that will lead the path to Uber and driverless cars taking over, as the technology gets better they will jack the insurance rates of human drivers through the roof.
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humans like incentives... and monitoring holds the correct individuals accountable for their actions...

1) $50/yr rebate if you have a dashcamera professionally installed with parking mode. If dash camera "failed to operate" at time of incident, driver at time is automatically 60% at fault.

2) $150/yr rebate if "driving monitoring" device is installed to the car's diagnostic port. Rebate level increases for each year of driving that meets "safe" standards as pre-set. (We share our location with Waze, phone number with FB and employment history with Linkedin... plugging this in to save a few dollars shouldn't be an issue)

3) $200 rebate per instance if video footage of a incident is voluntarily shared with ICBC.

4) If #2 is not accepted, automatic increase in premium of $150/yr, with 5.5% yearly premium increase.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:29 PM   #71
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ICBC wants you to ditch your lawyer
By Michael Mui, 24 Hours Vancouver

Monday, August 29, 2016 5:26:13 PDT PM

ICBC wants you to ditch your lawyer | Vancouver 24 hrs



ICBC is blaming lawsuits filed by people alleging to be hurt after traffic incidents as being responsible for about $309 million in expenses.

In all, the $309 million in litigation costs represents just under 20% of the $1.7 billion spent last year — ICBC’s press materials suggested the total amount was even higher, at $2.4 billion — by the provincial insurer to deal with injury claims, according to ICBC’s rate application document.

To justify its request for a 4.9% basic rate increase, ICBC said last week it needs more money to deal with additional crashes, property damage and injury claims, saying that costs to deal with injuries had increased 60% over the past 10 years.

However, materials sent to the B.C. Utilities Commission goes to lengths to explain the necessity of a “long-term effort” to “influence or control” the percentage of claimants that choose to hire a lawyer.

ICBC said 53% of injury claimants this year are expected to obtain legal representation, up from less than 30% in 2004.

“This is the highest level of litigation costs to date, and is expected to continue to grow in part due to the increase in the legal representation rate,” the insurer said in its application.

“ICBC will undertake research to further clarify elements that are key to the customer’s decision to retain legal counsel and to what extent ICBC may be able to influence those elements.”

In a statement, ICBC blamed the prolific advertising of personal injury lawyers for the high litigation costs.

“B.C. is the only province in Canada where there are no restrictions on your ability to sue another motorist for even a minor traffic accident,” it said.

“Fuelled by advertising that promises you a large payout from your claim, approximately half of all our injury claims today become represented — many before they are even reported to us (about 25% of claims) — and these claims cost more because they take longer to settle, legal costs are incurred, more expert reports are typically ordered and there is an increased utilization of medical resources and services.”

ICBC said it’s “common practice” for lawsuits to be started by claimants, even though less than 1% of injury claims will end up in trial.

According to its own customer satisfaction survey, ICBC found claimants felt using a lawyer gave them a chance at a higher settlement, access to more treatment, and a greater sense of control. Other factors include how some claimants expected “unfair” compensation, treatment and “biased” adjusters unless they had a lawyer.

Vancouver personal injury lawyer Farouk Jiwa said often claimants would be forced to file a legal claim due to the deadline requiring lawsuits to be filed less than two years after an incident.

“Otherwise people are forced to settle their claims before the two-year mark when they may continue to be hurt or lose their rights. They may also not get what’s fair from ICBC without pursuing litigation,” he said.

“They’re trying to make it seem like these lawyers are the root of the problem ... I am finding more and more we have to take cases to almost the courthouse steps or trial in order to get people fair compensation.”
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Old 09-01-2016, 10:37 AM   #72
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ICBC has only itself to blame for low-balling the shit out of people for years on their claims.

You reap what you sew ... Or, as it's a crown monopoly, we're reaping what they sewed.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:39 PM   #73
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As crappy as it is to have to pay a few hundred bucks more a year for ICBC, at least you can actually claim stuff.

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Old 09-07-2016, 10:29 PM   #74
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As crappy as it is to have to pay a few hundred bucks more a year for ICBC, at least you can actually claim stuff.
They also have to insure you, so you don't have to call up loads of places to fnd out who is willing to insure a RHD car or worry about your insurance being cancelled because your insurer found out you took your car to the track.
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:27 PM   #75
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They also have to insure you, so you don't have to call up loads of places to fnd out who is willing to insure a RHD car or worry about your insurance being cancelled because your insurer found out you took your car to the track.
BS?! Don't tell me a private insurance company can cancel your insurance after finding out I took my car out to the track?! When I am at the track, I already know 1000% that nothing will be covered by the insurance company.

If anything, an insurance company should REDUCE my car insurance when I participate in formal / sanctioned motorsports activities. I'm a safer driver precisely because I know street =\= track.
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