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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trd2343
But he refused to comply with the officer's request, did he not?
I'm totally with the poor man in this whole incident, but it seems to me that he could have walked out unharmed (and proceed to sue them afterwards instead) in this whole incident, had he listened to them.
If I'm not mistaken, these are actual airport police officers, and independent of United Airlines.
if he did what he was told he wouldn't be able to sue coz there is nothing to sue for.
There should be fine for bumping customer off a plane, not just some crappy compensation. Like for each passenger you bump you have to pay a fine. Not just s slap on wrist but a fine that actually hurt the airline button profit so they don't way overbook. 10% of the total ticket price for that fight for every customer that gets bump is a good start.
You know what, just ban overbooking outright. I mean you do see hockey games, concerts, movie theaters, railway etc etc...... sells more tickets than seats they have so why is airline allow to do this?
I've heard a bunch of people say "boycott United" - but lets be honest here - how many people will let their conscience override their wallet or time? If United is the cheaper option, or the most direct option, would you really not take it because you vowed to boycott them?
As others have mentioned, this will blow over in a few weeks and life will go on. United sure isn't the only airline who overbooks - they just got caught red handed handling it poorly. The guy that did the beating was a Chicago Airport cop so this probably could have happened on any airline. A couple of hundred million dollars on a company with an over 22 billion dollar market cap is just a blip and shareholders will barely blink an eye at the drop in valuation over the last 2 days.
there are a few airlines that i strongly prefer not to fly and if the difference was pretty close i'd choose the more expensive option. especially when flying overseas, there are airlines and connections that i pay extra to avoid unless the next option is substantially more.
United Airlines: David Dao will need reconstructive surgery after suffering concussion, broken nose and lost teeth, says his lawyer
Lawyers for David Dao, the passenger forcibly removed from a United Airlines flight over the weekend, confirmed that Mr Dao had sustained several serious injuries as a result of his removal. The injuries include a concussion, broken nose, injury to the sinuses, and two lost teeth.
Attorney Tom Demetrio told reporters Mr Dao was discharged from the hospital late Wednesday. He described his client as "shaken."
Mr Demetrio said at a press conference Thursday that there would “probably” be a lawsuit over the incident. Mr Deterio and co-counsel Stephen L. Golan filed an emergency petition with a Chicago court on Wednesday, asking United Airlines and the city of Chicago to preserve all evidence that could pertain to a lawsuit.
__________________ "The guy in the CR-V meanwhile, he'll give you a haughty glare. He's responsibly trying to lessen his impact, but there you go lumbering past him with your loud V8, flouting the new reality. You may as well go do some donuts in a strawberry patch and slalom through a litter of kittens." Dan Frio, Automotive Editor, Edmunds
All I know is the way things look United and the City of Chicago will have to try to settle this out of court or else they are going to get crushed if it goes to trial.
I heard that United has reimbursed every passenger that was on that flight. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of waiver that goes along with that. Something along the lines of waiving your right to testify against them or something?
__________________
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Dr. Dao was also convicted on six felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud and deceit and got five years probation in 2005, according to TMZ.
He got his license to practiced back in 2015 but has restriction.. lol I wouldnt want to go see him knowing that past.. dayum
he restricted to only work one day per week for another doctor in Elizabethtown, KT according to one article i read, but another one said he is practicing at a major hospital
__________________ "The guy in the CR-V meanwhile, he'll give you a haughty glare. He's responsibly trying to lessen his impact, but there you go lumbering past him with your loud V8, flouting the new reality. You may as well go do some donuts in a strawberry patch and slalom through a litter of kittens." Dan Frio, Automotive Editor, Edmunds
I stopped posting in here as it's tough to argue with people with half the story. This lady does a decent job of explaining the situation. For anyone who actually cares to read this, it will answer some of the silly questions.
I don't really see why she is mentioning the fact he boarded the AC again afterwards (How is still a puzzle). I just assumed he had a concussion. But she's better explaining a lot of that better then I am. I'm already sick of hearing about this story as it's pretty blown out of proportion, but hey. That's just me. It's good to see some media attention as the rule is BS. If they made a law to ban overbooking, we'll pay for it. But at least your guaranteed to make it there... until one of the other thousands of scenarios show up to cancel or delay your flight....
In other words, "Wah! No one agrees with me!"
Your only argument has been "United can kick people off at will" and "You always have to do what a policeman tells you", that to me is only arguing based on half the story.
In this story though, you have to take into account the full context:
- United's errors in adequately scheduling/securing seats for their staff prior to this flight
- United's failure to address an overbooking situation before allowing passengers onto the plane and into their seats
- United's failure to offer adequate compensation to bring about volunteers
- United's decision to involuntarily remove passengers, without so much as consulting those passengers if they had important reasons compelling them ensure they made the flight
- United's decision to use force on non-compliant passengers, and subsequent use of excessive force by the Police to remove the passenger
I'm sure everyone agrees that it's generally a good idea to do what Police say. However through the failings of United this situation should never have got to that stage, and that's why nobody gives a shit that this guy didn't just do what the Policeman said, and why United is getting the shitstorm of blame.
if he did what he was told he wouldn't be able to sue coz there is nothing to sue for.
There should be fine for bumping customer off a plane, not just some crappy compensation. Like for each passenger you bump you have to pay a fine. Not just s slap on wrist but a fine that actually hurt the airline button profit so they don't way overbook. 10% of the total ticket price for that fight for every customer that gets bump is a good start.
You know what, just ban overbooking outright. I mean you do see hockey games, concerts, movie theaters, railway etc etc...... sells more tickets than seats they have so why is airline allow to do this?
But... I don't think anyone or at least me is condoning the fact overselling is ok. At all.
But if there's nothing to sue for just because he walked off the plane, then the only people who he will be suing at this point is the police officers, cause they are independent of UA, they caused bodily harm, not UA.
And I absolutely side with the passenger in that it's unreasonable for UA to boot the passenger off the plane. But do you think he did not once think about the consequences of disobeying the officers?
What would any of you have done, if you were in his shoes? Shit, if I was in his shoes, whether I like it or not, or agree or not, officers ask me to get off the plane, I haul ass and get off right away.
It's unfair that UA could get officers involved to remove passengers off the plane, but at that point, I'm not going to stick around and argue and risk getting removed by force. If I do decide not to move, I would think I'd be held responsible for my own actions as well.
But, all of this doesn't matter in the end, because even the police department released a statement that what the officers did was wrong (I'm not sure if it is the excessive force, or forcibly removing a passenger from the plane).
What I did notice was that the man who was dragging the passenger off the plane was in civilian clothes, so that maybe something that the passenger could also hold the officers accountable for.
Again, UA is absolutely at fault here, for overselling and the way they handle overbooking a plane (forcing a passenger off the plane), but I personally feel the passenger is partially responsible for his own injuries as well.
To all of those who agree with The Pilot Wife and are saying saying "well the law is the law, read the contract, etc" are failing to look at WHY this whole thing came about.
The passenger wasn't a safety threat. He wasn't bothering other people. He wasn't drunk. He wasn't ill. Those are the reasons why a contract gives an airline the right to remove a passenger.
Instead, he was an ordinary man, who paid for his seat, boarded, and was then suddenly told he had to get off to make room for someone else (an employee at that).
And when he said no (which is totally reasonable given the circumstances), the crew decided it would be appropriate to bring in some goons to take care of this situation that United created in the first place.
If you honestly think that's ok and the passenger is at fault because it's written in the contract and he should have done what he was told, give your head a shake.
And the same goes for the airport security that threw him out. He should've assessed the situation, saw that the passenger posed no security threat to himself, the airline or other passengers, acknowledge that it was a civil matter and leave it to the airline to deal with.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Failed 929 Times in 340 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trd2343
But... I don't think anyone or at least me is condoning the fact overselling is ok. At all.
But if there's nothing to sue for just because he walked off the plane, then the only people who he will be suing at this point is the police officers, cause they are independent of UA, they caused bodily harm, not UA.
And I absolutely side with the passenger in that it's unreasonable for UA to boot the passenger off the plane. But do you think he did not once think about the consequences of disobeying the officers?
What would any of you have done, if you were in his shoes? Shit, if I was in his shoes, whether I like it or not, or agree or not, officers ask me to get off the plane, I haul ass and get off right away.
It's unfair that UA could get officers involved to remove passengers off the plane, but at that point, I'm not going to stick around and argue and risk getting removed by force. If I do decide not to move, I would think I'd be held responsible for my own actions as well.
But, all of this doesn't matter in the end, because even the police department released a statement that what the officers did was wrong (I'm not sure if it is the excessive force, or forcibly removing a passenger from the plane).
What I did notice was that the man who was dragging the passenger off the plane was in civilian clothes, so that maybe something that the passenger could also hold the officers accountable for.
Again, UA is absolutely at fault here, for overselling and the way they handle overbooking a plane (forcing a passenger off the plane), but I personally feel the passenger is partially responsible for his own injuries as well.
Once I boared I ain't moving till the airline came up with compensation that meet what I want. I won't fight, push I will simply just sit in the seats video recording the whole thing. Is simple pay enough compensation and I will get off.
Remember the airlines is asking a favor from you, they should pay or offer what you ask for. I pass security meaning I am not a national threat, MY ID have been check, I am clam, not yelling the airport security/police have no right to remove me off the flight because this is a civil matter and me an the ariline is still taking about compensation. If the airline wants me to get bump faster they should offer me more compensation. So how long it takes depends on how much they offer.
A couple of hundred million dollars on a company with an over 22 billion dollar market cap is just a blip and shareholders will barely blink an eye at the drop in valuation over the last 2 days.
I'd also like to add the stochastics for UAL were showing overbought conditions and was trading sideways for a week. Technical traders know the stock price was going to head downward anyways, I don't think this incident had any affect on the stock price.
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
Your only argument has been "United can kick people off at will" and "You always have to do what a policeman tells you", that to me is only arguing based on half the story.
No, in fact it's the only factual information out there. Stop reading into the media's propaganda and look into real information. I know a tiny bit about women, a little about cars, but my actual knowledge is AVIATION. The reason I quit responding is due to the fact of the mob's of people jumping onto this like leeches and not letting go, disregarding real facts.
So let's walk through your list....
Quote:
In this story though, you have to take into account the full context:
- United's errors in adequately scheduling/securing seats for their staff prior to this flight
I guess you missed the page I posted. It posted some fairly relevant facts. The fact United supposedly did not secure seats for their staff is FALSE as far as we know. It is an unknown. United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.
The ONLY scenario I have come across which could have possibly been United's fault is, if these crew members were booked far in advance. Their arrival flight was delayed, and now the gate agents decided to board anyhow (giving away their seat) and handing out the remaining seats as they assumed the crew would not make the flight. I then see some liability. But even then, they have the right to do as they please for the operation.
Quote:
- United's failure to address an overbooking situation before allowing passengers onto the plane and into their seats
If there was an overbooking situation, it would have happened and been dealt with prior to boarding. I suspect this crew requirement was a last minute change. With half the information, you are correct. But this is not how airlines operate. It is not a normal thing to do, other factors are at play.
Quote:
- United's failure to offer adequate compensation to bring about volunteers
Did they not offer within the required amount? It seems to me, they did. It sounds cheap to me, but they did what was required.
Quote:
- United's decision to involuntarily remove passengers, without so much as consulting those passengers if they had important reasons compelling them ensure they made the flight
Fair enough, but they don't require it. Bad move? Probably.
Quote:
- United's decision to use force on non-compliant passengers, and subsequent use of excessive force by the Police to remove the passenger
When did United use force? When they have the right to pull a passenger, and the passenger is not complying they did exactly what their procedures tell them to do. The employees did what they could with what was given to them. The next step is calling in Police. That is policy when dealing with a non compliant passenger. The police actions, well that's another story.
[/QUOTE]
Anyhow. As I said many times before, I'm not arguing. I'm trying to set you straight with actual facts. Take them in if you want, I would rather move on.
No, in fact it's the only factual information out there. Stop reading into the media's propaganda and look into real information. I know a tiny bit about women, a little about cars, but my actual knowledge is AVIATION. The reason I quit responding is due to the fact of the mob's of people jumping onto this like leeches and not letting go, disregarding real facts.
So let's walk through your list....
I guess you missed the page I posted. It posted some fairly relevant facts. The fact United supposedly did not secure seats for their staff is FALSE as far as we know. It is an unknown. United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.
The ONLY scenario I have come across which could have possibly been United's fault is, if these crew members were booked far in advance. Their arrival flight was delayed, and now the gate agents decided to board anyhow (giving away their seat) and handing out the remaining seats as they assumed the crew would not make the flight. I then see some liability. But even then, they have the right to do as they please for the operation.
If there was an overbooking situation, it would have happened and been dealt with prior to boarding. I suspect this crew requirement was a last minute change. With half the information, you are correct. But this is not how airlines operate. It is not a normal thing to do, other factors are at play.
Did they not offer within the required amount? It seems to me, they did. It sounds cheap to me, but they did what was required.
Fair enough, but they don't require it. Bad move? Probably.
When did United use force? When they have the right to pull a passenger, and the passenger is not complying they did exactly what their procedures tell them to do. The employees did what they could with what was given to them. The next step is calling in Police. That is policy when dealing with a non compliant passenger. The police actions, well that's another story.
Anyhow. As I said many times before, I'm not arguing. I'm trying to set you straight with actual facts. Take them in if you want, I would rather move on.
So much wrong in this post just shows you don't actually know the facts. Watch the video and listen to what the attorney says. He basically explained everything in regards to those topics, and probably has the evidence to back it up.
United probably has 4500+ flights a day. Things go wrong, there is last minute changes. Crews are swapped, last minute bookings are made. These occurrences don't just happen multiple times daily, they happen hourly. If a change was required, and a crew needed to be on that plane now. That is not a fuck up. It's part of the business to keep it further going off the rails. 4 people get sacrificed for the good of the operation. Yes it sucks. But the domino effect which happens otherwise is exponential.
sounds to me like this is just plainly a bad business model, if hourly you have to reschedule / inconvenience customers. It may not be a 'fuck up' in their operational playbook, but it definitely is a fuck up on their policy.
So much wrong in this post just shows you don't actually know the facts. Watch the video and listen to what the attorney says. He basically explained everything in regards to those topics, and probably has the evidence to back it up.
The man is completely correct. Wouldn't it be great, if corporate america did this and that. Yes. I agree with you 100%.
I am stating facts of how airlines work. The video you posted is obviously one sided. He brought up a great point, one in which I have no idea about. The fact United is responsible for the police actions. If that's the law, that's the law. I have no idea. I'm not a lawyer. I'm generally curious about his comment of the flight crew allowing the police actions on board with excessive force. The door is still open on the aircraft. That's a pretty grey area.
I am stating what the policy of airlines are. Clarifying the false facts and accusations so perhaps everyone will have a real idea of what is happening. Take it with a grain of salt if you want.
As for the next poster, and about the business model. I'd say it would be a difficult thing to manage otherwise. I won't argue. I'm stating facts.
Reminds me of.... whatever happened to the old man who got dragged down the stairs by coqitlam rcmp, because he refused to leave the strata meeting?
Anyway, i was surprised to see UA CEO saying Dr. did nothing wrong on the tv interview.. i thought he would avoid answering that question... this Dr. Gonna get RICH! Ppl who took the video should ask for some share lol
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