Metro Vancouver gas prices could hit $1.54 a litre by the weekend: GasBuddy

[mikemhg]

It's quite incredible that you can drive 20 minutes and purchase gas for literally a third cheaper than up here.

That's fucking insane, it's about time we stop laying down and simply accepting the bullshit in this province.

[68style]

The part that blows me away, is that as taxpayers we have all been subsidizing the shit out of everyone's electric car purchases... and they're all driving on the same roads as us... but besides subsidizing their purchases, they're also contributing absolutely nothing in taxes towards the roads/road maintenance... which is most of the tax in gasoline.

And they get carpool status on top of it all. I mean talk about a free fuckin ride.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I find it funny that rightwingers can organize people to drive across the damn country and hang out in freezing conditions over vaccinations -- a very divisive issue.

We all fucking need gas and drive cars, gas prices are a unifying subject.

I voted for the NDP and John Horgan, one of his campaign promises was specifically investigate/address the cost of gas in BC. He has yet kept that promise.

I find it interesting that we're so damn passive. Why as British Columbians are we paying more for gas than anywhere else in North America? What is going on here? Why is the populace so apathetic to doing anything about it, and holding their government accountable?

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Once again, I am baffled how we can get people to drive across the country to protest getting jabbed in the arm, and yet we are completely pacified to put pressure on our local governments to impose measures to calm down the price of a commodity that affects us all.

We Canadians are a funny bunch.

Originally Posted by mikemhg

It's quite incredible that you can drive 20 minutes and purchase gas for literally a third cheaper than up here.

That's fucking insane, it's about time we stop laying down and simply accepting the bullshit in this province.

Not meaning to call you out, but I’m curious. So that’s the 3rd time you’ve brought up us being too passive and not standing up for ourselves. So what have you done? Have you called your local MP, or organized a Facebook gathering of car guys at the local refinery/distribution? Or just complained on RS like the rest of us without any actual action.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by 68style

The part that blows me away, is that as taxpayers we have all been subsidizing the shit out of everyone's electric car purchases... and they're all driving on the same roads as us... but besides subsidizing their purchases, they're also contributing absolutely nothing in taxes towards the roads/road maintenance... which is most of the tax in gasoline.

And they get carpool status on top of it all. I mean talk about a free fuckin ride.

You don't get it.

That's EXACTLY the gov't intention. You can have your favorite ICE car all you want. But keep that as your weekend toy car. There's no reason for anyone to continue to commute using ICE cars when it comes to new commute car purchases. The very idea is to make it very costly/inconvenient for people to continue driving ICE cars.

BC has enough power generation capacity through its hydro-electric system that more often than not, we net-export our power generation to US and Alberta. Should they/us have no need for the power generated, they just go to waste.

Gas or petro, otoh, are all mostly imported from elsewhere. This generates very little economic benefit for BC.

So, by keeping the green objective and everything into consideration, it's in BC gov't's best interest to continue to accelerate the transition to EV. We are among the top in North America, but we are barely scratching 10% of all new cars.

[68style]

Oh I get it sir. I very much know what direction things are going in. That said, there's plenty of reasons not to go EV on a daily commuting car including upfront purchase costs... not everyone has a real estate empire like you do and buys $60k+ car whenever they feel like getting something new. Not to mention insurance, what are you paying a year for a Tesla? A lot more than an older used car.

I'm not sure why you think the BC government cares more about greening initiatives than it does about tax collection........................ I'm sure the government will figure out a way to have all EV owners take it up the ass in a big way too... once enough people are converted over

Beyond what you're saying, the government doesn't want us to drive AT ALL. Not just getting rid of ICE... they don't wany anyone to even own a car. They want rideshare and pay by use and public transit. They don't want to build road infrastructure and provide parking.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by 68style

Oh I get it sir. I very much know what direction things are going in. That said, there's plenty of reasons not to go EV on a daily commuting car including upfront purchase costs... not everyone has a real estate empire like you do and buys $60k+ car whenever they feel like getting something new. Not to mention insurance, what are you paying a year for a Tesla? A lot more than an older used car.

I'm not sure why you think the BC government cares more about greening initiatives than it does about tax collection........................ I'm sure the government will figure out a way to have all EV owners take it up the ass in a big way too... once enough people are converted over

Beyond what you're saying, the government doesn't want us to drive AT ALL. Not just getting rid of ICE... they don't wany anyone to even own a car. They want rideshare and pay by use and public transit. They don't want to build road infrastructure and provide parking.

It's irrelevant to one's financial situation. Sure... if you are just barely getting by, and can only afford a $2000 beater, there's little reason for you to get a $60k Tesla. But the truth is, if you have to commute, you might not be far off.

Say you are a regular dude with middle-class income and buy a new vehicle every 8-10 years by financing it for 60/72mths.

I'm not sure if you ran the math... but in my case, I did with a Model 3 SR+, which is not exactly the cheapest EV option out there. The 10yr true cost of ownership by factoring everything into while driving 24,000km every year was not even a close match. By comparing all the way down to a Corolla, at year 4, the Model 3 would come out ahead even its initial cost (price) is higher. That's when gas price was in the $1.3 range. Imagine with a $2 gas.

And when comparing to similar price range vehicles, say a bimmer or something like that, by the end of year 10, the difference would almost be enough for me to buy another brand new Model 3.

People have this misconception that EV is expensive. But the fact is... it's the cheapest car to own and operate. I'm lvl:Asian cheap. I didn't buy a Tesla because I was balling out of control. I bought it because 1. it was the cheapest car to run and 2. it had gov't rebates and 3. it was good for the environment and maybe it's good for my health in long term and lower my medical expenses. Yes... I'm that cheap.

The only people I still wouldn't recommend an EV to are those who often need to do long trips (as in 500km+) in remote areas where access to charging is very limited if not impossible. For city commute, the Model 3 is perfect. Yes, it doesn't have the best material and finish and whatever. But it gets you from A to B incredibly cheaply and the ride is super smooth. In the rare occasion you need to venture outside of city, the Tesla SC network got you covered.

[68style]

That’s only one reason i mentioned… but you do realize that a majority of the population is in debt and can’t get approved for financing though right? Your fiscal analysis is already in the electric car thread and I can definitely appreciate it for what it is — a through examination of numbers extrapolated over a long period of time showing a benefit purely from that perspective.

There’s also charging situations. I live in a 12 year old condo building and there’s no way to charge an electric car here. No plugs anywhere and no infrastructure for it… and the building is not even very old. I’d have to be going out to sit at a charger every few days. A large swath of the population would have the same issue.

I'm not sure how the environmental beliefs pan out, I don't gather that most of your business or flying around is all that environmentally friendly tbh... so... blah. Everyone is going to be different that way.

I don’t even personally commute to work by car anymore, I walk and take the train when I do have to go in… but besides costs this is a car enthusiast forum? I know enthusiasm comes in many forms, but quite a few people don’t want to drive to work in something just because it’s cheap to operate. Personally I find driving EV’s boring as fuck, I do realize I might be in a minority in the general population but whirring around with no engine sounds and no gears to change makes me feel like a eunuch and is not how I’d want to spend my time just because it’s “cheap” so there’s that factor as well. Again I don’t expect I’m on the majority but I’m definitely not alone.. If I did commute, I’d never do it that way if I had a choice… why spend most of my driving time any given day miserable and bored out of my mind?

I guess we’re just ignoring the other point that ending car ownership completely is actually the governments end goal.

[Acura604]

SCENARIO... .(and i think most of you guys are thinking this)

you have a fairly new car, low mileage can fetch a good trade in (especially in this market)...and its 100% paid for but sucks back premium gas.

would you just hang onto it and 'weather' this storm or say f it - get rid of it for an EV.

FACT is - we've hit this new $2 threshold and reality is - it ain't gonna go down significantly for potentially the foreseeable future.
you can reduce driving and maybe try to aim for a $150-$200 fillup every 2 weeks estimating $400 in fuel costs per month. maybe reduce that by around 25% by doing USA runs bundled with jerry cans.

the real question is...at what point does the return on going EV start benefiting you financially in the above scenario.?

[68style]

If I had to drive to work more than 20km I would definitely consider an EV despite my dislike. I might work a bit harder to find one that suited me, definitely wouldn’t be a Tesla and the others are too far behind on their tech so it’s a waiting game if I’m diving in.

Mostly I’m not concerned with running costs though if I like my car. Pay to play.

[donk.]

Alberta has entered the chat and does not approve of you EV drivers

Let's keep that oil patch running boys!

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Acura604

SCENARIO... .(and i think most of you guys are thinking this)

you have a fairly new car, low mileage can fetch a good trade in (especially in this market)...and its 100% paid for but sucks back premium gas.

would you just hang onto it and 'weather' this storm or say f it - get rid of it for an EV.

FACT is - we've hit this new $2 threshold and reality is - it ain't gonna go down significantly for potentially the foreseeable future.
you can reduce driving and maybe try to aim for a $150-$200 fillup every 2 weeks estimating $400 in fuel costs per month. maybe reduce that by around 25% by doing USA runs bundled with jerry cans.

the real question is...at what point does the return on going EV start benefiting you financially in the above scenario.?

Already having this chat with my wife, actually this morning. We don't drive much, but even then 2 tanks for gas for the X3 per month is about $250 a month. More if we make farther trips. We own the car outright and want something slightly bigger so the X5 PHEV is actually something we are considering if we can get a decent trade in. If we can go from 2 tanks of gas a month to about 1/2 tank that already saves us close to $200 for payments and we get an upgrade.

[68style]

I'll play the math game a bit though, it was brought up that anything but a shitbox for $2k is a bad deal compared to an EV (we will say Tesla 3 so there's some point of comparison).

I haven't commuted driving to work for 4 years now, but when I did I went Richmond to Surrey every day and the car I drove by choice was a 2004 Lexus IS300 that I bought with 134,000kms on it for $7500. The IS300 inline-6 is notoriously bad on gas compared to most cars, it's not that fast, but what can I say... I just like how the car feels. City/Hwy is 16/23mpg on that car, probably 70% of the trip is highway so we will say 20mpg or 11.8L/100km for sake of argument.

The trip from my house to my former workplace is 29.5km each way. 60km a day. A pretty decent commute, not too crazy but definitely not a short one either. So in theory I was using 7L of fuel per day. Obviously gas was cheaper back then, but today it's $2/L so $14 per work trip. Yes the IS300 says you're supposed to use premium, but I haven't for the 8 years I've owned it and it's never been an issue. I was on a flex schedule of sorts, so working 9 day fortnights... 18 days a month on average at the office, that's a monthly fuel commuting cost of $252 at today's fuel rate. Annual cost is $3024.

Maintenance has been almost non-existent. I bought the car with the timing belt/water pump already done and new brakes. Tires were about 30% worn. Looking through my records, I've done oil changes every 5,000kms at a cost of $75 per oil change (i6 engine has a big oilpan, needs 5.4L of oil). I am just about to do the brakes for the first time at 208,000kms now at a cost of $283.20USD for new power slot discs/pads all around from RockAuto ($363 at today's exchange rate) and I will be doing the brakes myself, so there's no mechanic charge for that. I bought a new set of Barum tires in Bellingham, we don't get them in Canada but they're Czech made and pass all Euro standards which are higher than NA. I've found them to be very good, a bit noisier than Continentals that it replaced. They cost (at the time -- they've gone up to $95 now) $65USD per 215/45/17 tire for a total of $260 USD which I luckily didn't get taxed on at the border, but that's $333 after conversion.

I've had zero other maintenance on this vehicle. Assuming I was always using it for commuting (I only did half the time I've owned it) I was commuting ~13,000km per year which, being generous, is 3 oil changes for $225 per year on top of fuel of $3024. My brakes took almost 70,000kms to wear out at a cost of $363 so divided by annual mileage that's an annual average cost of $67.50 per year. I'm not going to include tires because EV's use tires too.

So my car was costing $3316.50 a year to run not including insurance (about $1800 for sake of argument for full coverage, it's since dropped down to $1400 with all the ICBC changes).

I'm unsure what government rebates are currently available on Tesla's, but I don't know that there are any on the current priced SR since it's $68990 now and beyond the cost threshold I believe. $68990 plus taxes is a bit over $77000 and there's a bit extra on top because it's past the new luxury tax threshold as well, but I won't include it because I'm lazy. At a purchase price of $7500 + taxes ($8400 all in) and annual running costs of $3316.50, it would take me 20 years of driving my Lexus to reach just the initial purchase price of a Tesla Model 3 SR. This is not even accounting for the fact it does cost money to run a Tesla as well nor does it factor in financing costs which are not insignificant -- you'd be buying it outright in this scenario.

Be super super generous and throw in a timing belt/water pump job and a couple oil leaks repaired here and there, some random coolant/transmission fluid changes, $6000 worth of stuff let's say, shit happens, it's still going to take 18 years to reach the initial purchase price.

So............. yah... not exactly just a "anything but a $2k beater costs more to own" end result.

[Great68]

I'm stuck in this position where while we want to replace the MS3 with a new full EV car, and keep the F150 for truck duties.
But because either of us don't commute to work by car anymore, shelling out $50k+ for a palatable EV that we would only drive a few thousand kilometers per year would take decades to pay itself back even at the insane gas prices right now.

[Acura604]

Originally Posted by Great68

I'm stuck in this position where while we want to replace the MS3 with a new full EV car, and keep the F150 for truck duties.
But because either of us don't commute to work by car anymore, shelling out $50k+ for a palatable EV that we would only drive a few thousand kilometers per year would take decades to pay itself back even at the insane gas prices right now.

exactly my 'dilemna' if you want to call it that.

work from home 100% now - short trips here and there with the 2021 RDX is a given...i gotta eat. but if i hunker down, i can probably stretch out a full tank for 2 weeks....65L tank, premium gas...easily $120-$140 per fill.
The RDX can run on regular 89 but with sluggish power delivery -no thanks.

BUT - no car payments and maintenance is NIL except for oil changes twice a year.

Once the feds eliminate the need to get tested going back into Canada from blaine then yup, i'm switching to USA gas with 4 jerries per trip.


back in the good ol' days precovid with a 2018 RDX

[Great68]

Sorry, I had to LOL at stretch out a tank to 2 weeks. I think I last filled my MS3 in late January and I'm still at about 1/3 tank. And that's with a couple of unnecessary "Sunny day drive to nowhere" drives. :P At least your RDX is practically new.

[Acura604]

Originally Posted by Great68

Sorry, I had to LOL at stretch out a tank to 2 weeks. I think I last filled my MS3 in late January and I'm still at about 1/3 tank. And that's with a couple of unnecessary "Sunny day drive to nowhere" drives. :P At least your RDX is practically new.

BUT u have 2 vehicles - i have 1. the RDX is the daily for all things. you have the option of driving 1 or the other and stretching out both tanks.

[Great68]

Oh yeah, no that is just with using the Mazda for all the non-work commute related things.

The majority of things I do need to drive to are within a 10km radius from my house

[Euro7r]

Find it stupid those that switch to EV, so they don't have to pay for gas. Yet they likely won't even keep the EV long enough to actually gain from it versus driving gasoline and paying gas. It's one thing your driving like 25,000km a year and keeping the car for the long-haul, but most city average user won't see the cost savings. Spend more to get EV to not pay for gas??!!!.

[Eff-1]

Originally Posted by Acura604

exactly my 'dilemna' if you want to call it that.

work from home 100% now - short trips here and there with the 2021 RDX is a given...i gotta eat. but if i hunker down, i can probably stretch out a full tank for 2 weeks....65L tank, premium gas...easily $120-$140 per fill.
The RDX can run on regular 89 but with sluggish power delivery -no thanks.

BUT - no car payments and maintenance is NIL except for oil changes twice a year.

Once the feds eliminate the need to get tested going back into Canada from blaine then yup, i'm switching to USA gas with 4 jerries per trip.


back in the good ol' days precovid with a 2018 RDX

How is this even a dilemma? You have a new luxury vehicle, no payments, low maintenance costs, lots of warranty left, and are only filling up every 2 weeks. And live close to the border, to boot.

Or are you really just looking for someone to convince you to get an EV because you want to look cooler?

[Acura604]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

How is this even a dilemma? You have a new luxury vehicle, no payments, low maintenance costs, lots of warranty left, and are only filling up every 2 weeks. And live close to the border, to boot.

Or are you really just looking for someone to convince you to get an EV because you want to look cooler?

EVs aren't really cool considering 1 out of every 10 vehicles in the city are TESLA 3s.

I just want to hold out until there's more variety in EVs - current crop are either over priced or not that exciting. heck, i wouldnt' even mind a good HYBRID but the damn RAV4 PRIME is a 2yr wait list.

BUT how long is this market going to hold - meaning, right now...TOP DOLLAR for your car however new or old it is.

[JDMDreams]

^^ let's say I'll be conservative and say you fill 60l of regular every 2 weeks. That's already 60l X $2.099 = $125.94 every 2 weeks, x2 = $251.88 a month. Depending on what EV you get that's like almost 40-50% of your payment already.

This is assuming gas prices don't keep going up. I doubt gas prices will plummet tomorrow if Russia stops today. With all the sanctions, o too bad guys there's a storm or the refinery needs maintenance.

Alberta should build their own refinery. That will make them rich. And not rely on Americans.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by 68style

I'll play the math game a bit though, it was brought up that anything but a shitbox for $2k is a bad deal compared to an EV (we will say Tesla 3 so there's some point of comparison).

I haven't commuted driving to work for 4 years now, but when I did I went Richmond to Surrey every day and the car I drove by choice was a 2004 Lexus IS300 that I bought with 134,000kms on it for $7500. The IS300 inline-6 is notoriously bad on gas compared to most cars, it's not that fast, but what can I say... I just like how the car feels. City/Hwy is 16/23mpg on that car, probably 70% of the trip is highway so we will say 20mpg or 11.8L/100km for sake of argument.

The trip from my house to my former workplace is 29.5km each way. 60km a day. A pretty decent commute, not too crazy but definitely not a short one either. So in theory I was using 7L of fuel per day. Obviously gas was cheaper back then, but today it's $2/L so $14 per work trip. Yes the IS300 says you're supposed to use premium, but I haven't for the 8 years I've owned it and it's never been an issue. I was on a flex schedule of sorts, so working 9 day fortnights... 18 days a month on average at the office, that's a monthly fuel commuting cost of $252 at today's fuel rate. Annual cost is $3024.

Maintenance has been almost non-existent. I bought the car with the timing belt/water pump already done and new brakes. Tires were about 30% worn. Looking through my records, I've done oil changes every 5,000kms at a cost of $75 per oil change (i6 engine has a big oilpan, needs 5.4L of oil). I am just about to do the brakes for the first time at 208,000kms now at a cost of $283.20USD for new power slot discs/pads all around from RockAuto ($363 at today's exchange rate) and I will be doing the brakes myself, so there's no mechanic charge for that. I bought a new set of Barum tires in Bellingham, we don't get them in Canada but they're Czech made and pass all Euro standards which are higher than NA. I've found them to be very good, a bit noisier than Continentals that it replaced. They cost (at the time -- they've gone up to $95 now) $65USD per 215/45/17 tire for a total of $260 USD which I luckily didn't get taxed on at the border, but that's $333 after conversion.

I've had zero other maintenance on this vehicle. Assuming I was always using it for commuting (I only did half the time I've owned it) I was commuting ~13,000km per year which, being generous, is 3 oil changes for $225 per year on top of fuel of $3024. My brakes took almost 70,000kms to wear out at a cost of $363 so divided by annual mileage that's an annual average cost of $67.50 per year. I'm not going to include tires because EV's use tires too.

So my car was costing $3316.50 a year to run not including insurance (about $1800 for sake of argument for full coverage, it's since dropped down to $1400 with all the ICBC changes).

I'm unsure what government rebates are currently available on Tesla's, but I don't know that there are any on the current priced SR since it's $68990 now and beyond the cost threshold I believe. $68990 plus taxes is a bit over $77000 and there's a bit extra on top because it's past the new luxury tax threshold as well, but I won't include it because I'm lazy. At a purchase price of $7500 + taxes ($8400 all in) and annual running costs of $3316.50, it would take me 20 years of driving my Lexus to reach just the initial purchase price of a Tesla Model 3 SR. This is not even accounting for the fact it does cost money to run a Tesla as well nor does it factor in financing costs which are not insignificant -- you'd be buying it outright in this scenario.

Be super super generous and throw in a timing belt/water pump job and a couple oil leaks repaired here and there, some random coolant/transmission fluid changes, $6000 worth of stuff let's say, shit happens, it's still going to take 18 years to reach the initial purchase price.

So............. yah... not exactly just a "anything but a $2k beater costs more to own" end result.

Originally Posted by Great68

I'm stuck in this position where while we want to replace the MS3 with a new full EV car, and keep the F150 for truck duties.
But because either of us don't commute to work by car anymore, shelling out $50k+ for a palatable EV that we would only drive a few thousand kilometers per year would take decades to pay itself back even at the insane gas prices right now.

Originally Posted by Acura604

exactly my 'dilemna' if you want to call it that.

work from home 100% now - short trips here and there with the 2021 RDX is a given...i gotta eat. but if i hunker down, i can probably stretch out a full tank for 2 weeks....65L tank, premium gas...easily $120-$140 per fill.
The RDX can run on regular 89 but with sluggish power delivery -no thanks.

BUT - no car payments and maintenance is NIL except for oil changes twice a year.

Once the feds eliminate the need to get tested going back into Canada from blaine then yup, i'm switching to USA gas with 4 jerries per trip.


back in the good ol' days precovid with a 2018 RDX

Originally Posted by Euro7r

Find it stupid those that switch to EV, so they don't have to pay for gas. Yet they likely won't even keep the EV long enough to actually gain from it versus driving gasoline and paying gas. It's one thing your driving like 25,000km a year and keeping the car for the long-haul, but most city average user won't see the cost savings. Spend more to get EV to not pay for gas??!!!.

Based on all these observations and my own situation, it really only makes sense if you own a newer car, have significant equity in it, at the same time not take a bath on trade in, and drive enough to make sense. With the asterisk that you have your own garage and can charge it.

It's not "let's swap hurdur don't need to get gas". A few posts up I was saying we are considering a swap, but it would also mean we are taking on at least $40k extra on costs after trade. $40k is $800/m for 5 years. I still need to put out $600 a month. Is $600 worth it considering we are upgrading in size and luxury? Getting an EV is roughly the same cost for a smaller car.

[fsy82]

My wife and I were seriously considering getting a Hybrid and i went to the BMW dealer to look at the X3 hybrid. Nice car and all but the total cost with all taxes came out to $101,000. Mind you we like our current Q7 and would like something comparable. We walked out and figured we'd rather wait for more variety in the Hybrid/EV scene and that were not ready to make monthly 1,000 car payments. Our current vehicles have no debt on them so another $50 for fill-up won't hurt that much

[320icar]

So I’m daily driving the STi right now. 65L tank gets me about 425km. Daily total commute is 30km.

So if you do the math, I can technically make it 2 weeks between fill ups as long as I’m not doing any further drives. It needs 94 so say ~$275/mo if premium is $2.25/L.

[320icar]

Originally Posted by fsy82

X3 hybrid. Nice car and all but the total cost with all taxes came out to $101,000.

LLLOOOOOLLLLL holy fuck over $100,000 for an x3 you’d have to be fucking menta