The official NDP is screwing us thread

[MG1]

In other news.................

https://www.news1130.com/2018/07/22/...uvers-skyline/

Wouldn't affect the view from the eastside, lol.......... Eastvan, ftmfw!!

[quasi]

Originally Posted by MG1

In other news.................

https://www.news1130.com/2018/07/22/...uvers-skyline/

Wouldn't affect the view from the eastside, lol.......... Eastvan, ftmfw!!

You can still see the mountains you just have to buy a unit in the new building facing that way. Win win

[Tone Loc]

Lol @ thinking it's "entitlement" that young people who are working well-paying (2-2.5x the Canadian median income) jobs should be stuck living at home until their 30s because they can't even afford to rent a place

Nobody here is some ultra-left wing hippie who thinks that every barista and fast-food employee deserves to own a Yaletown apartment (at least I would hope not). But it should be attainable for those making a decent income

[CivicBlues]

Anyone else think this whole housing situation is paradoxically exacerbating the whole salaries being low in this city? Bear with me but I mean, what's the point in getting a big promotion and raise when it basically does nothing in the grand scheme of things. Boom! You get 20% raise. But you still can't afford to buy shit because prices are up 20% from last year and not to mention rent. Now your stress levels are up and you've really got nothing to show for it. I mean it really takes the wind out of any ambition to move up. Your 6 figure salary is chump change compared to the dough the international money laundering league brings in not to mention boomers with 7 figure equity in their houses. No wonder I see so may people just jogging the seawall and hanging out in cafes/shopping at 10:30am on a Mother Fucking Wednesday!!/arigold.

I myself have turned down job offers for a significant raise due to the increase in commute times and work hours. My rationale being: big whoop, I'll be able to buy a slightly larger condo (read: qualify for a more outrageous mortgage), but I'll never be at home to enjoy that extra 150 sq feet or whatever extra toys I could get. Oh and the job comes with less vacay time. At what point does that few extra thousand bucks a year even make a dent in total living expenses here? Don't mind me just rambling... fuckin' first world problems eh.

[68style]

^
I get what you're saying... but this is really just the problem with capitalism in general is it not? You are saying you'd rather not take the promotion due to work/life balance because you couldn't enjoy a slightly larger condo you could afford... but the same thing would be true even if you lived somewhere with ridiculously cheap housing, you'd be turning down the promotion due to work/life balance because you couldn't enjoy the mansion you could now afford to buy (and your toys like your ATV and sportbike and Porsche)... so it's really just the same idea on a different scale? Kind of comes down to what empowers you in your life and what makes you happy and some people get their happiness from achieving success through their work.

The real problem is that you literally cannot have work/life balance in a place without affordable housing I guess... as in you can't own any type of residential space here unless you work your damn ass off, not even a bachelor suite, so there's literally no room for people here who don't get their happiness through working tirelessly.

In related news, not in love with the NDP, but the Liberals?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...ase-for-power/

[68style]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i'm glad there's resistance to living in bird cages instead of more duplex/laneways/rowhomes

it'll take generations if they wanna rezone most of land west of Fraser into towers...at which point our waterways gets even dirtier, and air quality will tank

you find it reasonable to have severe compromises like working 7 days a week to afford a place, to not take up any traveling, to skip eating out so you can pay $1500/sqft

I don't, does that make me entitled? that someone who grew up here can at least afford rent? CoV pegs $3700/mo as affordable housing in 2018

This. I can never understand why increasing density and making more and more people move somewhere is considered progress. Talk to anyone born in Japan who lives in Tokyo and what's their dream? Moving somewhere with open space like Vancouver. Hell... what's the marketing in all these super cities around the world to come to Vancouver? Clean air... nature... mountains... guess what's going to get ruined by density projects and industry? Clean air... nature... mountains.

It's just bizarre to me. There's so much lust here for marketing this place, happened in 1986 for Expo... happened in 2010 for Olympics... "let's show Vancouver to the world guys" why? It was nice here! We had much better lives and ability to succeed 30 years ago than today (internet business capabilities notwithstanding)... but for some reason everyone in power wanted to go down this road! The only reason I can think of for any of it is the people in power making $$$ off it. We're just along for their ride.

I'm torn, like I remember in the 1980's no malls in Richmond opened on Sundays and you couldn't eat out past 8 or 9pm... I definitely don't miss stuff like that, but I'd like to have thought there would be some kind of a common sense cap on it. How the hell are all 25+ towers under various stages of construction just on #3 Rd area of Richmond alone going to contribute anything positive to the surrounding area / lower mainland? They won't, whoever it is that's even moving into these places will just make it painful for the rest of us that already live here to get around anywhere or enjoy anything or even just have space to breathe.

[CivicBlues]

Oh don't get me wrong, the whole consumption based capitalist system is broken and is just a self-sustaining Ponzi scheme at this point. Doesn't matter if it's 500sq foot shoe boxes in DT Vancouver or McMansions in Whosville, USA. It's all the same BS.

I guess what I'm saying is the game changed entirely on us as people wage earners. When international wealth/cheap money became the norm the rest of us working chumps became background characters to this play. A 20k raise in my tax bracket really only gives me an extra 13k a year after tax so on average an extra grand a month to what? At best it'll maintain the exact standard of living I have today 5 years from now? oh but wait, it's not because I now have all the added stressors of the newer, fancier job. I dunno the thought of it just disincentives me most days from trying anymore.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Anyone else think this whole housing situation is paradoxically exacerbating the whole salaries being low in this city? Bear with me but I mean, what's the point in getting a big promotion and raise when it basically does nothing in the grand scheme of things. Boom! You get 20% raise. But you still can't afford to buy shit because prices are up 20% from last year and not to mention rent. Now your stress levels are up and you've really got nothing to show for it. I mean it really takes the wind out of any ambition to move up. Your 6 figure salary is chump change compared to the dough the international money laundering league brings in not to mention boomers with 7 figure equity in their houses. No wonder I see so may people just jogging the seawall and hanging out in cafes/shopping at 10:30am on a Mother Fucking Wednesday!!/arigold.

I myself have turned down job offers for a significant raise due to the increase in commute times and work hours. My rationale being: big whoop, I'll be able to buy a slightly larger condo (read: qualify for a more outrageous mortgage), but I'll never be at home to enjoy that extra 150 sq feet or whatever extra toys I could get. Oh and the job comes with less vacay time. At what point does that few extra thousand bucks a year even make a dent in total living expenses here? Don't mind me just rambling... fuckin' first world problems eh.

LOL in order for you or anyone to be in top 1% no wait top 5% that's the phase you have to go through. Do you think the Steve Jobs was just born lucky and didn't work his ass off to get where he is? Do you think Elon Musk just sleep all the day and enjoy the sun? Hell no they work their ass off they get where they are (well steve die already but that's not the point). They work harder than everyone else, got a little luck and came up with great ideas.

Sure all the 2nd gen is enjoying the riches of their family and what their parents did. But don't think for a second their parents didn't work hard for it. That's life try hard and do your best. What you are saying is let's all be socialist and live in a socialism society. All I am saying is if you don't try hard and take on more task/pressure you will never be the most successful you can be.

I mean you can't really blame for people investing and taking risk on real estate while you sit back and rent. You didn't take any risk or any motivation to improve and get to where you want to be. That's the issue with a lot of people. They want something but all they ever do is cry and complain about it but never actually think of ways to achieve what they want.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

LOL in order for you or anyone to be in top 1% no wait top 5% that's the phase you have to go through. Do you think the Steve Jobs was just born lucky and didn't work his ass off to get where he is? Do you think Elon Musk just sleep all the day and enjoy the sun? Hell no they work their ass off they get where they are (well steve die already but that's not the point). They work harder than everyone else, got a little luck and came up with great ideas.

Sure all the 2nd gen is enjoying the riches of their family and what their parents did. But don't think for a second their parents didn't work hard for it. That's life try hard and do your best. What you are saying is let's all be socialist and live in a socialism society. All I am saying is if you don't try hard and take on more task/pressure you will never be the most successful you can be.

I mean you can't really blame for people investing and taking risk on real estate while you sit back and rent. You didn't take any risk or any motivation to improve and get to where you want to be. That's the issue with a lot of people. They want something but all they ever do is cry and complain about it but never actually think of ways to achieve what they want.

-Everyone has different circumstances in life. Just because you don't understand or can't comprehend what could possibly be going on in people's lives does not make it okay for us to judge them and say they're not trying hard enough. Life isn't only as you know it based on your experiences and observations.

-What you consider to be "not trying hard enough" does not in fact mean people are not trying hard enough. Your cannot take your standards in life and apply them to other people.

-Not everyone who tries their hardest will make it out or be successful. Some of the ones who are successful had a lot of luck and they know it.

-Trying your best and working hard will not lead to success if the cards are stacked against you and you can't recognize it's stacked against you.

[Traum]

The real purchasing power of everyday wage earners have been declining probably since the 80s'. In particular, ever since the money games really took off in the finances markets with various investment / financial products that aren't really based on solid equity / practical businesses, wealth disparity has been growing worse every single day. It is not a new phenomenon, nor one that societies in general have come up with a viable solution. So in light of the topic of this thread, I don't think this has anything to do with NDP (or the Liberals).

As far as incentives not being there to work harder at the expense of work-life balance, that is pretty much the socialist Canadian system at work, isn't it? Ideologically, I wouldn't say wealth redistribution via taxes is bad -- in fact, it is very much needed. At the same time, of course I wish I wouldn't get taxed nearly as much as I do. If the 3 levels of government wasn't so wasteful / inefficient with their financial resources, I really wouldn't gripe about the high taxes...

(But again, this doesn't really have anything to do with NDP or Liberals.)

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Anyone else think this whole housing situation is paradoxically exacerbating the whole salaries being low in this city? Bear with me but I mean, what's the point in getting a big promotion and raise when it basically does nothing in the grand scheme of things. Boom! You get 20% raise. But you still can't afford to buy shit because prices are up 20% from last year and not to mention rent. Now your stress levels are up and you've really got nothing to show for it. I mean it really takes the wind out of any ambition to move up. Your 6 figure salary is chump change compared to the dough the international money laundering league brings in not to mention boomers with 7 figure equity in their houses. No wonder I see so may people just jogging the seawall and hanging out in cafes/shopping at 10:30am on a Mother Fucking Wednesday!!/arigold.

I myself have turned down job offers for a significant raise due to the increase in commute times and work hours. My rationale being: big whoop, I'll be able to buy a slightly larger condo (read: qualify for a more outrageous mortgage), but I'll never be at home to enjoy that extra 150 sq feet or whatever extra toys I could get. Oh and the job comes with less vacay time. At what point does that few extra thousand bucks a year even make a dent in total living expenses here? Don't mind me just rambling... fuckin' first world problems eh.

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

I guess what I'm saying is the game changed entirely on us as people wage earners. When international wealth/cheap money became the norm the rest of us working chumps became background characters to this play. A 20k raise in my tax bracket really only gives me an extra 13k a year after tax so on average an extra grand a month to what? At best it'll maintain the exact standard of living I have today 5 years from now? oh but wait, it's not because I now have all the added stressors of the newer, fancier job. I dunno the thought of it just disincentives me most days from trying anymore.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

LOL in order for you or anyone to be in top 1% no wait top 5% that's the phase you have to go through. Do you think the Steve Jobs was just born lucky and didn't work his ass off to get where he is? Do you think Elon Musk just sleep all the day and enjoy the sun? Hell no they work their ass off they get where they are (well steve die already but that's not the point). They work harder than everyone else, got a little luck and came up with great ideas.

Sure all the 2nd gen is enjoying the riches of their family and what their parents did. But don't think for a second their parents didn't work hard for it. That's life try hard and do your best. What you are saying is let's all be socialist and live in a socialism society. All I am saying is if you don't try hard and take on more task/pressure you will never be the most successful you can be.

I mean you can't really blame for people investing and taking risk on real estate while you sit back and rent. You didn't take any risk or any motivation to improve and get to where you want to be. That's the issue with a lot of people. They want something but all they ever do is cry and complain about it but never actually think of ways to achieve what they want.

You are quoting anomalies of society and try to apply that to everyone, that was unwise. It takes a lot of luck to be where they are at. A lot of hard work but a lot of luck nonetheless.

Affordability has nothing to do with self-entitlement. Bank of Canada doesn't actually follow RS and see a bunch of people "whining" about house price to determine affordability. It is a statistical measure, price versus income.

Also you mistake luck with being skillful, or gutsy, or hustling, or taking risk. You buying "early", in hindsight nonetheless, are dumb luck. Making a ton of abnormal sacrifice at that.

Living with parents until they're 30s, working harder, stop crying all are not widely applicable solution to affordability issue, which is harmful to the economy itself when it is at the two biggest job centers like Vancouver and Toronto. It takes people raising the issues to drive changes.

[nah]

Originally Posted by jackmeister

surprised no one actually mentioned this yet:

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...ment-on-monday

basically, union labour only for infrastructure projects, OR if your non-union workforce wins the bid, you are forced to join a union?

I get the point of protecting workers and better benefits and training, but .... what kind of backward shit is this?

Sounds like a fast ferry debacle again!

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

LOL in order for you or anyone to be in top 1% no wait top 5% that's the phase you have to go through.

That's the issue right there. You shouldn't have to be part of the "top 5%" of society to buy a fucking house.

The fact that you are equating the diligence required to buy a home to the industrious endeavours of some of the world's highest-paid CEOs is the problem here.

I completely agree with your argument when you're talking about luxuries in life, such as an expensive car, travelling often, having expensive clothes/shoes/bags. All items that nobody really "needs".

Having a big enough home to raise a family comfortably isn't a luxury good. Raising kids and keeping the cycle moving forward is one of the pillars of our society. It's not sustainable for single-family homes to average over $1 million in a Lower Mainland that lacks the economic opportunities to make that type of income.

If people can't afford to have families what do you think is going to happen to society in the next 100 years?

[quasi]

Originally Posted by nah

Sounds like a fast ferry debacle again!

Yup, the NDP is OK with taxpayers paying more for infrastructure as long as it puts money in the unions pockets. Different decade, same old song and dance.

I mean why would you want it open bidding to everyone like almost every other construction project out there and have it done for the lowest price possible when you can build favor for the next election. It's only tax dollars, worst case scenario we'll just raise taxes or add more user fees somewhere.

[mikemhg]

You know what I've started to realize? From reading this thread, the real estate, and Trump threads, we all post a lot. We post a lot, but we don't do anything about what we are preaching on this forum.

We all agree this situation in Vancouver is a major problem, but what are we doing about it other than posting on an online forum? I'm actually genuinely curious if we as a group can do something about pushing a new agenda in Vancouver, and organizing behind it. This is a serious question, short of voting, is there something we as a group can genuinely do to elicit change in this city?

[Traum]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

You know what I've started to realize? From reading this thread, the real estate, and Trump threads, we all post a lot. We post a lot, but we don't do anything about what we are preaching on this forum.

We all agree this situation in Vancouver is a major problem, but what are we doing about it other than posting on an online forum? I'm actually genuinely curious if we as a group can do something about pushing a new agenda in Vancouver, and organizing behind it. This is a serious question, short of voting, is there something we as a group can genuinely do to elicit change in this city?

As jaded and cynical as I am, I continue to write to my government "representatives" when the following stars align:

1) the issue is important to me
2) I can somehow squeeze a solid 1/2 hour+ of time to collect my thoughts, and actually write something coherent

I have written to the municipal, provincial, and federal level government. Sometimes, it is effective and results in a positive change. Most of the time, the complains fall on deaf ears.

I don't really believe in the system at all, but I do know that when enough people bitch at and scold the responsible official, there is a chance to bring about some positive change. You need a lot of people, and you preferably need a lot of pissed off people. IMO, being sensible and logical to present a counter argument is utterly useless. You need to factual, and you need to be illustrative on examples of why the garbage they are proposing is utter complete garbage. At the same time (and perhaps most importantly), whatever you write / tell / present them needs to have a lot of rage and venom. Essentially, you need the fxxking politicans and government to know that you are pissed off, that their plan is a stupid piece of shxt that will do more harm than good, and that the threat to not vote for them next time is very real.

At least that is what I do. Generally I fail to achieve the changes that I demand. But every now and then, when enough people are pissed off (and directly let the decision makers know that they are pissed off), they could back off on their stupid plans. Case in point was the proposed small business tax hike that Morneau & JT tried to pull. When enough people (across the country in this case) gave Morneau a piece of their minds, and publically rip him up to shreds at town hall meetings, they know they fxxked up.

This is the only thing I know that has a remote chance of working. If anyone has any better ideas, I'd love to hear it.

[Hondaracer]

I’ve tried to actually “do somthing” and it ended with no outcome whatsoever. And I tried avenues that may actually stimulate discussion or some sort of response and still, nothing. So I’m fairly discouraged when it comes to taking actual action.

I emailed that sack of shit Jenny Kwan about an issue that already had a petition going and on-going support via the BC wildlife federation. I copied and pasted the email the federation had put together and got no response, then I emailed her directly asking about my previous inquiry and no response.

Then I see that dummy Linda Steele has Jenny Kwan on her radio show talking about introducing some fucking legislation about immigration and refugee families. Literally every comment in that twitter thread is how she doesn’t do shit locally yet is trying to introduce legislation that has no bearing on her riding.

I then forwarded a brief overview of my situation to Linda and how contacting your MP outside of threatening them in person at their riding office is completely useless. Needless to say Linda the liberal nut hugger didn’t say shit back and carried on as per usual.

It seems like the only way to be actually heard is be that crackpot who pickets our front of an office, and generally (myself included) when I see people doing that shit I typically discount it as some hairbrained bullshit no one cares about and go about my day.

Outside of voting it feels like there is very little one can do to enable actual change, and I’d say the risks you take doing so (personal and career wise) can be massive as opposed to the very little you may effect change politically.

[CivicBlues]

RS beatdown crew?

[Tapioca]

You want to make yourselves heard in front of politicians?

Instead of writing letters, go to council meetings and speak at public hearings. When Mayors and councillors make themselves available at public events, go and talk to them. Give them a reason why they should listen to you. Get involved in community organizations. Get on boards of directors. Become a member of your chamber of commerce or board of trade.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

You want to make yourselves heard in front of politicians?

Instead of writing letters, go to council meetings and speak at public hearings. When Mayors and councillors make themselves available at public events, go and talk to them. Give them a reason why they should listen to you. Get involved in community organizations. Get on boards of directors. Become a member of your chamber of commerce or board of trade.

I am not disagreeing with any of the things you say here, but when a regular citizen have to put in that much effort and time into getting himself heard, it really begs they question of why it has to be that way. In a sense, it is no different than HappySlip saying in some other thread that you need to be within the top 5% of the earning bracket to be able to afford a house in Vancouver. And gosh... it really shouldn't be that way. Not for buying houses, and not to get yourself heard by the politicians who are supposed to look after the citizens' interests.

For a regular joe with a regular family and regular family and personal responsibilities, who can afford as much time and resources to do that?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Traum

For a regular joe with a regular family and regular family and personal responsibilities, who can afford as much time and resources to do that?

Not to mention that if you DO protest, all of the closet six-figure earners come out of the woodwork and say things like "not at work on __day, no wonder you're not doing well" or "get a job". As if it is impossible in this day and age to take a paid day off...

[Bouncing Bettys]

Occupy Wall Street, #BlackLivesMatter, #MeToo, etc. They all start out with legitimate concerns, which quickly gained in popularity before the message got drowned out and lost. A protest basically has to be run like a military, with clear objectives, leadership, and its on PR representatives.

We need Gandhi

[Eff-1]

I think voting is the only way to communicate effectively to your politicians. 100% of the motivations that go into every decision can be linked back to the goal of winning the next election. There is no better example of that than the fear of losing the taxi driver vote in key ridings. That is the only reason why we still have no ridesharing.

In my career I work with governments and crowns and let me tell you that often times the most logical decision is never made because it isn't the best decision politics-wise. If it's not politically smart, it's a political risk. In public sector, risk = bad.

If you really want to make a difference, put efforts into increasing voter turnout. Encourage your friends and family to vote. Volunteer at election time. Not only do 40% of voters not bother to vote, it's usually the baby boomers that vote more than millennials, so the younger generations are stuck with the consequences of that. We started to see a shift of that in the last election. I can't wait for the day when someone comes up with online voting versus in-person, that will be a game changer.

[Hehe]

To further what Eff-1 said, I think it's about collectiveness of voters.

Let's stop being puppets that politician would only pretend to care whenever we are close to an election to swing our decisions and then forgotten once the election is done.

Unions and groups of certain profession are powerful because they ACT collectively. Hence politicians VALUE their opinion.

Should we gather enough power to swing an election, our voice will be heard.

Some might think it's lunacy to gather enough power to swing an election. But think the Green party. With just 3 seats in BC parliament, they have huge influence on BC gov't decisions. So, just a concentrate support of a few hundred people in a tight race area can make or break a politician.

I should make a website out of this idea.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

You know what I've started to realize? From reading this thread, the real estate, and Trump threads, we all post a lot. We post a lot, but we don't do anything about what we are preaching on this forum.

We all agree this situation in Vancouver is a major problem, but what are we doing about it other than posting on an online forum? I'm actually genuinely curious if we as a group can do something about pushing a new agenda in Vancouver, and organizing behind it. This is a serious question, short of voting, is there something we as a group can genuinely do to elicit change in this city?

I vote with my money. I do my best to spend money at local businesses, with products that I believe in. I buy food from local sources.
Am I saving the world? fuck no. But I'm doing the best I can to use my money to better my neighbourhood. As one person its not much, but when it becomes a group mentality, it can change your community for the better. If you see a company or corporation that has a negative effect on your community, do what you can to avoid spending with them. I mean, I can't stop buying fucking gas and things like that, but spending my money at independent businesses does genuinely make a difference in allowing this city to maintain some character.
Its not real estate specific, but it allows people who live and contribute to our city to continue to operate here, and hopefully employ people who will do the same.