Birthright citizenship

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Zedbra

Having restricted Jus Soli is common throughout the world, the 30 countries without restrictions are the odd ones out here. My wife and I had our first child prior to her becoming a Canadian citizen and was grateful for the law of Jus Soli. Having to pay for every doctor's visit was the norm, and some special visits required payment up front. Our son was a $12k baby.

But she was in the process of becoming a Canadian citizen, through the proper channels, prior to being pregnant?

There's a fundamental difference between that and say coming into a country illegally and using a pregnancy to gain citizenship.

[Zedbra]

Originally Posted by welfare

But she was in the process of becoming a Canadian citizen, through the proper channels, prior to being pregnant?

No, we were planning on her moving here, she came to visit, slipped one past the goalie, expedited her return, then started the process of my sponsoring her. Sometimes, you do what you have to do. 11 years later, relationship is stronger than ever and two respectful and healthy little Canadians brought into this world.

[danned]

richmond refugee for asian immigants
make richmond great as ever

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Zedbra

No, we were planning on her moving here, she came to visit, slipped one past the goalie, expedited her return, then started the process of my sponsoring her. Sometimes, you do what you have to do. 11 years later, relationship is stronger than ever and two respectful and healthy little Canadians brought into this world.

ANCHOR DADDY!!!

That situation sounds different than what i think many are upset with.
You were/are a Canadian citizen who sponsored her after she got pregnant here.

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by yray

well a few babies owe Richmond hospital a couple mil

Why is CBSA and global affairs canada letting them in. They should've been rejecting their visa/entry outright.

Most tourist visas are valid for 3+ years. Very easy for someone to apply for a tourist visa, get knocked up, and come here ready to pop one out.

Moreover, there is nothing in the Immigration & Refugee Protection Act that states that birth tourism is an inadmissibility. The closest you'd get is Section 38(1)(c) where it states that a person is inadmissible if they have a health condition that "might reasonably be expected to cause excessive demand on health or social services". But if they have enough money (most of them do), they can easily argue that they are not causing an "excessive" demand.

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

If we use some modified form of Jus Soli which requires a residency period, what is to become of stateless persons or refugees who give birth on our soil? Would their children remain stateless? What about criminal parents who are deported? Are their adult children who are born here to be deported as well to a country they have no memory of?

This is exactly why I have such an ambivalent view on the idea of birthright citizenship. On one hand, yes, plenty of people abuse that system now. In my mind, birth tourism has always been happening, however with the housing market the way it is and the tensions there are with respect to Mainland China/immigration/the housing market/money laundering, it is becoming more of a hot-button topic.

But CivicBlues makes a good point. As a Canadian-born son of two Filipino immigrants, what would that mean for me? Potentially being deportable to a country I've only been to once and vowed never to set foot in again? I can tell you this, I would rather go to a Canadian jail than back to the Philippines. That alone would make me vote against abolishing birthright citizenship in spite of the clearly visible problems there are with it.

[Hehe]

I'm not even sure why this is a problem.

All we really have to do is to make sure these people who come to have babies in Canada actually pay for their bills. After that, I don't see where the problem is.

We as a country are heading into a natural declining population by some time in the 2030s. Meaning that by then, we'd have more people dying than born every year. We'd have to open the gate to allow immigration anyway or our society will be in serious shit.

Now, last time I read about anchor babies in Canada, official numbers put it in the hundreds. Let's exaggerate the numbers that slipped the count somehow and put that number into the low 4 digits.

We had just a bit over 380k babies in 2017-2018 (july-june), which makes anchor babies less than 1% of total babies being born in Canada. Are we going to waste all the resource it would require to amend our constitution for not even 1%?! Seriously... whoever proposing this need to get the facts right.

Yeah yeah yeah I heard all the argument of people not going through the proper immigration channels. But seriously... how are the refugees crossing into Canada illegally on a daily basis any better? Is that consider a "legitimate" channel? I really fail to see how one is better than the other.

[Zedbra]

^ Good point; we write off millions more annually in unpaid citizen's student loans with useless Arts degree majors trying to tell others how they should live their lives rather than unpaid tourist baby bills.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hehe

We as a country are heading into a natural declining population by some time in the 2030s. Meaning that by then, we'd have more people dying than born every year. We'd have to open the gate to allow immigration anyway or our society will be in serious shit.

That doesn't mean we should let people in using any loophole they can think of though. It's a bit insulting to those who went through the proper channels to let someone jump around it just by having a kid. Assuming that they're using the kid to then gain citizenship for themselves.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I'm not even sure why this is a problem.

All we really have to do is to make sure these people who come to have babies in Canada actually pay for their bills. After that, I don't see where the problem is.

We as a country are heading into a natural declining population by some time in the 2030s. Meaning that by then, we'd have more people dying than born every year. We'd have to open the gate to allow immigration anyway or our society will be in serious shit.

Now, last time I read about anchor babies in Canada, official numbers put it in the hundreds. Let's exaggerate the numbers that slipped the count somehow and put that number into the low 4 digits.

We had just a bit over 380k babies in 2017-2018 (july-june), which makes anchor babies less than 1% of total babies being born in Canada. Are we going to waste all the resource it would require to amend our constitution for not even 1%?! Seriously... whoever proposing this need to get the facts right.

Yeah yeah yeah I heard all the argument of people not going through the proper immigration channels. But seriously... how are the refugees crossing into Canada illegally on a daily basis any better? Is that consider a "legitimate" channel? I really fail to see how one is better than the other.

I agree. The others can read and educate themselves here instead of the usual armchair QB.

[Hondaracer]

the refugee coming here illegally is probably part of the workforce though and even if they arent paying taxes etc they are contributing to an economy

If you come here, have a baby, buy a 4 million dollar west side house and claim $12,000 income a year you are a net loss to society as opposed to somone working a menial job, not using our healtcare infastructure, etc.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Tone Loc

As a Canadian-born son of two Filipino immigrants, what would that mean for me?

Did your parents at least have permanent resident status?

It's a pretty easy stipulation to make that if at least one of the parents of a child are at least permanent residents of Canada that their child born in Canada could be granted citizenship.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I'm not even sure why this is a problem.

All we really have to do is to make sure these people who come to have babies in Canada actually pay for their bills. After that, I don't see where the problem is.

The problem with your approach is, enough of these birth tourists dodge the bill on the costs of their high quality medical care they receive, and that is extremely insulting.

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/bi...ill-1.23333820

Even when they pay, Canadian hospitals are too honest / too stupid to charge them an arm an a leg. IIRC, the hospitals only aim for cost recovery for non-residents / non-citizens. IMO, since birth tourism has become a problem, the tourist mothers who have clearly planned to do this -- say, any expectant mother whose baby is more than 28 weeks into pregnancy -- should totally have been charging a 3x - 10x the cost of the treatments as a penalty and deterrent on these birth tourism cases to deter them from coming. It also doesn't hurt to make some profit on these cases.

And then there is the part that Underscore has pointed out -- it is insulting to those who have gone through the proper channels to obtain permanent residency and citizenship when we turn a blind eye to such an obvious loophole in the system.

[68style]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I'm not even sure why this is a problem.

All we really have to do is to make sure these people who come to have babies in Canada actually pay for their bills. After that, I don't see where the problem is.

Snipped for length

I've gone over the major problem in previous posts, but essentially the rather wealthy people that do birth tourism here set up shop with a husband working in Asia, wife stays here with 2-3 kids... we pay for her medical, we pay for those kids to go to school, we pay everything for her... she drives a Range Rover/BMW/Mercedes SUV around... every year CRA says "Hi Miss Cheng, you made $0 last year because you're a housewife... how about your husband? How much did he make so we can base your entitlements off of it?" Miss Cheng writes back "My husband made $0 last year as well" and CRA goes "Thank you Miss Cheng" and writes down $1 income for Mr. Cheng. Miss Cheng then sends in her applications for child tax benefit for, let's say, 2 kids, the government pays her say $1,200 a month until both kids are 18 years old because she has "no income" and during this whole process, any grandparents that are still alive on both sides are also brought over for the wife to take care of and mooch off the medical system.

So that is the problem, these families NEVER pay income tax, but they use hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars worth of public funds on your dime even though they are already wealthy beyond any of our means.

I'm not okay with that.

[Hondaracer]

If you have a baby here, take their passport.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by 68style

Snipped for length

I've gone over the major problem in previous posts, but essentially the rather wealthy people that do birth tourism here set up shop with a husband working in Asia, wife stays here with 2-3 kids... we pay for her medical, we pay for those kids to go to school,

Are you telling me they pay no property tax?


https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/t...l-property-tax

Annual Property Tax

When you own or lease a property or manufactured home in B.C., property taxes must be paid yearly for each property.

The money raised from the property taxes you pay are critical to funding local programs and services, such as:

Police and fire protection
Emergency rescue services
Road construction and maintenance
Garbage services
Recreation and community centers
Parks
Libraries
Schools
Hospitals

[68style]

I said no income tax buds.

they pay tax on shit they buy too... you think property tax and purchase tax covers the costs of 18 years of schooling, CCTB, welfare (some do!) and any surgeries or hospital visits?

I'm usually on your side man, but do the math. Canada's always been open for these people to abuse the hell out of.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by 68style

I said no income tax buds.

they pay tax on shit they buy too... you think property tax and purchase tax covers the costs of 18 years of schooling, CCTB, welfare (some do!) and any surgeries or hospital visits?

I'm usually on your side man, but do the math. Canada's always been open for these people to abuse the hell out of.

A lot of people pay no income tax.

https://www.taxpayer.com/news-releas...come-tax-bill-

In 2014, 27.5 million Canadian filed a tax return; 33% (9.1 million) paid no income tax; 67% (18.4 million tax filers) paid all the federal and provincial income tax.

We need a tax cut for the rich!!!

Those with incomes over $100,000 are 8.4% of all tax filers and pay almost 52% of all federal income tax

[Hakkaboy]

I took this photo at Costco earlier this year. Maybe they should start questioning people like her to see if she's running a pregnancy tourism operation

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

I took this photo at Costco earlier this year. Maybe they should start questioning people like her to see if she's running a pregnancy tourism operation

Did your parents not let you take sex ed class because that's not how pregnancy works.

FYI to anyone who want's to buy a large quantity of something from Costco. You can get them to order you a pallet of the item. I have done it many times.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by 68style

Snipped for length

set up shop with a husband working in Asia, wife stays here with 2-3 kids... we pay for her medical, we pay for those kids to go to school, we pay everything for her...

LOL you just described my parents' former neighbors from 1995-2012

[Hakkaboy]

Originally Posted by Manic!

Did your parents not let you take sex ed class because that's not how pregnancy works.

FYI to anyone who want's to buy a large quantity of something from Costco. You can get them to order you a pallet of the item. I have done it many times.

talking about pre-labour spotting and post-natal care. Just in case you haven't had children before, there's a shit ton of bleeding after you give birth. FYI

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by welfare

I believe the money can be invested nationwide. They are required to "intend" to stay in Quebec. Of course about 90% head straight to either here or Toronto.

https://www.immigration.ca/quebec-im...estor-program/

The trend is they first move to, SK, AB, MB, QC, the Atlantic.



Then they move to here or Toronto like you said. It is not as easy to immigrate and invest into Van/Tor directly.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

I took this photo at Costco earlier this year. Maybe they should start questioning people like her to see if she's running a pregnancy tourism operation

aren't these female hygiene pads!? the fuck does this have to do with pregnancy ?

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I'm not even sure why this is a problem.

That's because you're part of the problem.

All we really have to do is to make sure these people who come to have babies in Canada actually pay for their bills. After that, I don't see where the problem is.

Are you familiar with the medical industry?
What you're proposing is similar to the American system where those with money get faster and better treatment than those without. Regardless of the payment, this takes away space from Canadian citizens. Our hospitals are overcrowded already.

PHOTOS: Tour of Richmond Hospital reveals inadequate environment
https://www.richmond-news.com/news/p...ent-1.23160790

We as a country are heading into a natural declining population by some time in the 2030s. Meaning that by then, we'd have more people dying than born every year. We'd have to open the gate to allow immigration anyway or our society will be in serious shit.

Our rural population may be declining, but our urban population is growing at a rate that many cities are having a very hard time dealing with.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/...015004-eng.htm
At that time, 3.2 million people lived in Canada, of whom 2.7 million (84%) lived in a rural area. Canada's economy was based mainly on the primary sector?chiefly agriculture?but also on natural resources such as wood and coal.

By 2011, fewer than one in five (18.9%) people lived in a rural area. This shift reflected major changes in Canada's economy and society over several decades.

Now, last time I read about anchor babies in Canada, official numbers put it in the hundreds. Let's exaggerate the numbers that slipped the count somehow and put that number into the low 4 digits.

Hahahaha!
Okay there, champ. For years we were told that foreign money wasn't affecting our real estate, and that mainland gangsters weren't running millions through our casinos

It's so sad that we trust our officials so little, that anecdotal evidence actually becomes a viable source. Regardless, the US found that there are more anchor babies born in the US, than natural births in 48 out of 50 states.

We had just a bit over 380k babies in 2017-2018 (july-june), which makes anchor babies less than 1% of total babies being born in Canada. Are we going to waste all the resource it would require to amend our constitution for not even 1%?! Seriously... whoever proposing this need to get the facts right.

Again, myself along with Malcolm Brodie think that your numbers are incorrect.

Yeah yeah yeah I heard all the argument of people not going through the proper immigration channels. But seriously... how are the refugees crossing into Canada illegally on a daily basis any better? Is that consider a "legitimate" channel? I really fail to see how one is better than the other.

This is where I see that you truly are part of the problem. It's the attitude of "Hey guy, everyone is cheating so why not me too?"

Is it strange that this is how I picture you?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

talking about pre-labour spotting and post-natal care. Just in case you haven't had children before, there's a shit ton of bleeding after you give birth. FYI

I understand that but you think mothers are staying in these birth homes for months after they give birth. You assume the lady is running a pregnancy tourism operation just because she is Asian. Feminine hygiene products always overlooked when disasters happen.