Canadian politics thread

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by 68style

One of my softball teammates told me to “wake up” the other day in our off season chat thread in relation to the crossing.

I really thought that term had finally died with all the nutjobs.

You could have just trolled him and replied with "but if I wake up, does that mean I'm now woke??"





Serious question though, can someone explain to me the benefits of HST? I know we all made a big stink against it the first time it was implemented here (with zero input from any of us).

[bcrdukes]

There's always a trade-off. Since a majority of the membership base is in BC, implementing the HST in British Columbia could lead to annual savings of approximately $150 million in administrative costs for businesses. Although BC initially adopted the HST in 2010, it was repealed in 2013 after a referendum. The HST was found to have potentially increased costs for families compared to the separate GST and PST system. However, its benefits for business efficiency could still be significant if reconsidered in the future.

Benefit: $150M in savings, not having useless gov't employees waste taxpayer money
Who loses: Regular people because people who think they are rich, are not, and should be spending their money more wisely.

[BIC_BAWS]

I'm in favor of HST, greatly due to the business benefit of it. While it could be 1-3% more than status quo in BC, I could see business spending increase with HST implemented as businesses would be able to deduct the entire tax amount from their remittance.

Current Calculation

GST/HST Collected - GST/HST on Expenses (ITC) = GST/HST to Remit to Federal Government

PST Collected is remitted in full without any deductions for expenses to provincial bodies (BC, MB, SK, QC)

Proposed for October 2026, in light of the BC Budget, professional services (ie. accounting/bookkeepers, etc) will have to charge 7% PST for their services to bolster the deficit.

Numerical Example under Current Tax Structure

Sales = $100,000
GST Collected = $5,000

Asset Expenditure = $55,000
GST on Expense = $2,750

PST on Expense = $3,850
Total Value of Asset Expenditure = $58,850

Total GST Remittance = $5,000 - $2,750 = $2,250

Numerical Example under a HST 13% Structure

Sales = $100,000
HST Collected = $13,000

Total Value of Asset Expenditure = 55,000
HST on Expense = $7,150

Total HST Remittance = $13,000 - $7,150 = $5,850

While the remittance amount looks like more money out of a company's account, tax collected on behalf of the government is NOT the business' money. This structure allows the business to fully use the tax "credit" on the expenditure, rather than just giving it away on both sales (if finished goods to consumers) and expenses to the BC provincial government.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

Serious question though, can someone explain to me the benefits of HST? I know we all made a big stink against it the first time it was implemented here (with zero input from any of us).

HST is a value-added tax and VATs are really efficient taxes that are neutral towards types of consumption. I'll steal from Google for the longer explanation:

Key Reasons Economists Favor VAT

Efficiency and Growth: By taxing consumption rather than income, a VAT avoids the "double taxation" of savings and investment. This promotes capital accumulation, which many economists believe is essential for long-term economic growth.

Broad Revenue Base: A VAT can raise significant amounts of revenue even at relatively low rates because it applies to nearly all goods and services throughout the supply chain.

Administrative Evasion Resistance: Because businesses have an incentive to report their input costs to claim tax credits for the VAT they have already paid to suppliers, the system creates a "self-enforcing" paper trail that makes tax evasion more difficult compared to traditional retail sales taxes.

Neutrality: A well-designed VAT is generally considered neutral regarding international trade. Imports are taxed at the same rate as domestic goods, while exports are typically zero-rated (meaning the VAT paid on inputs is rebated), ensuring domestic production is not disadvantaged on the global market.

[spoon.ek9]

I'll reframe the question: how does HST benefit your every day people?

All these answers appear to be for business benefits. Some of us have absolutely no ties to the business world lol.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

I'll reframe the question: how does HST benefit your every day people?

All these answers appear to be for business benefits. Some of us have absolutely no ties to the business world lol.

The benefits to the consumer are a bit less directly tangible but if we assume that taxes are collected regardless then:

You don't have to pay double/triple/quadruple taxes on stuff that you buy compared to a standard sales tax as the tax is applied only on the total value of the product (you could argue the inverse of having to pay tax on something that didn't have taxes on it before though).

Because the tax is applied evenly across everything there's no distortionary effect to your consumption patterns - you won't choose to buy/not buy something because of the tax rate on the two goods you're considering.

I'd argue that having a tax that's not distortionary for either businesses or consumer is a huge benefit for both parties - it's a very clean tax that other than adding cost to something does it evenly so it doesn't affect purchasing or investment decisions.

Same goes with reducing tax evasion - businesses can't easily cheat on taxes in this area so consumers get a more even playing field. Joe Blow down the street doesn't save 7% because they are buddy buddy with someone who takes cash while you pay extra.

One benefit that Canadian consumers don't get from our HST: We don't treat HST as inclusive so that the price listed is the price you pay - in Europe and Australia the price list is what you pay and that's, IMO, a much more honest way of doing business (they also don't believe in tipping).

[68style]

I still have extremely negative feelings about the HST being input the first time around because they used it to up private used car sale tax to 12% and then didn't even take it away after HST got repealed.

[Great68]

As someone who writes up estimates, HST made things SOOOO much simpler.

Add your base costs, apply your markup, and that's your price +HST. Didn't need to worry about it beyond there.

With PST there are so many stupid rules and exemptions, when it applies, when it doesn't, it's very convoluted.

For example, in a normal estimate where we're carrying labour to install the material, we include PST in our base cost of the material. Our markups then apply on top of that PST cost (so it actually increases material costs for the customer).

However, if it's a supply-only (no labour) or for resale we do not carry PST as cost, and instead it's billed separately: IE Price + GST & PST.



Oh then we have to remember about organizations who may have PST exemptions, IE Federal government. Then we need to get and track their PST number, we need to (remember to) tell all of our suppliers that the order is PST exempt etc.

I guarantee that just to be safe there is more PST cost being charged on shit where it shouldn't be, than otherwise.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by 68style

I still have extremely negative feelings about the HST being input the first time around because they used it to up private used car sale tax to 12% and then didn't even take it away after HST got repealed.

The whole rollout was such a disaster - Campbell said before the election that he'd never do it and then ta-da! here it is! I'd love to read a history of what went on in the backrooms that lead Campbell to roll it out the way he did as I can't imagine he didn't have the HST as a consideration before the election.

He bit it from both ends - the Conservatives led by Bill Van der Zalm were able to talk it up as a tax hike while the NDP jumped on it as VATs are generally regressive taxes (hurts the poor and working class more than the rich).