Way back in the spring someone shot and killed a security guard in the US for being asked to wear a mask. There's no limit to peoples stupidity.

Anyone physically assaulting some poor worker over this stuff needs to get the shit kicked out of them though. Fuck being a better person and all that crap. Leave the poor person making min wage alone, grow the fuck up and wear a mask. If they can't do that basic thing they're unlikely to provide any value to society.

thats not how that works..

That adamson bbq guys is on another level but I really feel for the small business owners that are forced to shut down in toronto. They are being asked to sacrifice for the good of society but then I see tons of people still going out and not avoiding non-essential travel despite being asked to by BC CDC. Even reading posts in this forum, I'd bet that people are still going out for non-essential travel and risk contracting and spreading covid. Don't even get me started with the big box stores and their black friday sales. Its all or nothing in my opinion. Either go hard with enforcement or let the businesses operate with covid protocols.

I think all retailer businesses are trying to say they are essential and milk as much money as they can while they still can. You think that min wage walmart employee really wants to be there? Or the min wage at best buy? Even if you are young you are still risking your life + future health complications down the line.

In other provinces that have shit down all non-essential stores, there have been modifications. For example the Costco’s have roped off all of centres and hardlines. You can only shop the foods side of the store.

You know I find it disturbing how many people are not only willing, but clamouring to have our government assume such control over our freedom. Taking australia as some exemplary model.
It's not the return to "normal" that people are longing for. They are living in a literal prison state. And it's not even based in rationality. You can hold a beach ball under water but it will come up as soon as you let go.

I actually have a level of admiration for this Adamson guy.
My brother developed one of the most prominent diesel repair shops in the lower mainland. We had nothing growing up. He created that business with his intelligence, timing, location, and the drive and dedication it takes to create a successful business from nothing. His story isn't unique. It's the story of every entrepreneur who's successfully grown a business.
And they are the lifeblood of our economy. To see people begging to have their life's work destroyed without regard is disheartening.
I'm not saying that's you. But it seems to be the sentiment of many.

I live in Toronto and his other two locations are take out only for years now. He just knows how to play his stupid followers and I bet Rebel News is involved somehow.

Some of the loudest voices calling for mandatory masks and lockdowns from the government, also seem to want UBI, livable wages, universal healthcare (US), etc. This has been one of, if not the greatest transfer of wealth to the top earners and the further eradication of the middle class , all facilitated by governments. Just don't get your hopes up for a UBI or other improvements to the rest of us.

Did you even read that article about Aus? They went and ripped the bandaid off and got it over with instead of slowly dragging it out like everyone else. They were able to have 40k people attend a rugby match a month ago. That's a hell of a lot more normal than anything I expect we'll be able to do anytime soon. People still seem to be clinging to this idea that it's possible to get through this with no impact and that's been shown to not be possible. Small businesses are going to get hit regardless. Swedens economy took a hit even with how little they did.

And honestly I'm getting a bit sick of people using "freedom" as a reason to be selfish (in general, not just with COVID). Restrictions would only be impacting those incapable of doing the right thing on their own. Those who are able to be considerate of others are already restricting themselves anyways, so whether it's official or not it makes no difference to them.

A friend of mine just arrived in Australia earlier this week because her partner lives there. Security picks you up from the airport when you land, sticks you on a bus, and takes you to an undisclosed hotel for 14 days of quarantine. She is on day 5. They don't mess around.

Forcefully loaded on a bus? Sent to an undisclosed location? Held against your will?

Imagine how MAGA COVID freedumb hoaxers and the russian propaganda machines could spin that if they did this in North America.

Not sure if you misunderstood my post or if I didn't word it clearly. What I'm saying is the gov't should NOT be closing down the small businesses unless it is also willing to do everything in its power to stop non-essential travel during the lockdown. Look at what is happening in Toronto https://www.blogto.com/fashion_style...onto-lockdown/. Small businesses are forced to close while there is a huge line-up to get into the mall for black friday. If I was a small business owner facing bankruptcy due to lockdown, I'd be livid. Current projection for Ontario is that the curve will hover around the current rate (~1500 cases/day) near the end of December https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-lockdown-top/. So after 4 weeks of lockdown, then what? Extend the closure of businesses to prevent the curve from rising again? Or loosen the restriction and let the cases increase? Like I said before, gov't should either do everything in its power to dramatically reduce the spread of covid during the lockdown, or they should let the businesses operate with covid protocols.

I'm surprised that you are only able to handle one concept at a time. While it is true that individuals with hard work ethic and creativity should be applauded and have the freedom to open their businesses. WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY and everything we do as individuals has implications for others. So a government must balance the good of the individual with the good of the society as a whole. In a democracy, we elect governments and enable them to make those decisions for the good of the society. Yes, sometimes an individual's rights are diminished while the rights of the society must be protected.

What don't you understand about this?

For the Adamson BBQ owner, can we state that it was only to shut down dine in. They were encouraged to and allowed to do take out businesses. It's a minor inconvenience imposed for the health of the larger society. Fairly applied to all restaurants, not just his.

A friend of mine just did the mandatory lock down as he moved back to aus. Now he’s done, going to his favourite restaurants, seeing his friends, taking photos at car meets and having a fucking great life BUT OMG GOBERNMENT DUDTOPIA LIFE RUIEND NO FREEDUM.
Imagine giving up two weeks of your life to have some sense of normalcy instead of giving up basically 9 months and having clearly no end to this clusterfuck. Seems like a pretty easy fucking choice.

i mean there's gonna be flare ups again but i'd rather close things down once in a while

the most frustrating part here is really the no end in sight aspect

Agree with everything you said but I read this in George Costanza's voice:

Australia is also an island. It's easy to regulate who comes and goes.
That doesn't happen when 70% of your trade runs across the longest unprotected border in the world.

The problem is it's not based in reality.
Over 80% of the covid deaths in this country are from long term care homes. These are people who are already segregated from society. Completely locked down with no visitors.
The only place it's been able to get in is through the employees.
Crippling the economy, exploding our debt, among the many other consequences shutdowns place on society, because we can't manage to keep these employees in this tiny segment of the population from bringing covid in is asinine.

From what I've heard, ppl in Toronto were just going to outskirts to shop, so these regional isolated shutdowns are useless unless I guess you do it China style and put road blocks on the roads.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11...ine-criticism/

Interesting article. Trudeau is appointing former NATO commander Dany Fortin to lead Canada's vaccine distributon efforts.


-from the article:

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and health authorities have said that the military will play a key role in getting the vaccines, when they are approved for use, to the country’s most vulnerable.

“Canada is well prepared for large-scale rollouts of vaccines, but this will be the biggest immunization in the history of the country,” he said outside his Rideau Cottage home. “We must reach everyone who wants a vaccine no matter where they live.”

It’s for this reason that he said the country was setting up a new body to stickhandle the complex task.

“We are standing up a National Operations Centre, through the Public Health Agency of Canada, with the support of the Canadian Armed Forces to coordinate logistics and distribution of vaccines,” Trudeau said.

Trudeau reaffirmed that the federal government and provinces will need to work seamlessly to guarantee the success of the National Operations Centre.

“In our meeting, the premiers spoke about the need to work in partnership with the federal government,” he said. “They also brought up the fact that in certain cases, they will need support to ensure that everyone is reached, including vulnerable people and Indigenous people.”

Premiers have said they need more answers around vaccine rollout, noting they are responsible for the final logistics.


Hmmm, that means Horgan's health minister Adrian Dix would be responsible for final logistics of distributing the Covid vaccine to all B.C. residents.
:considered:
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^^ if we can't even get people to wear a mask why do you think they will vaccinate

People forget that 6 months ago BC was being plauded as the example to the world and Bonnie Henry had her picture in the New York Times etc?

Without widespread vaccination Australia will be back to having cases in no time. Everyone’s in a circle jerk about these blips of success. Aus is also in their summer right now. Not that they get weather that traps people inside in the winter like we do here. But it’s all apples and oranges.

BC is trying to walk this tight rope right or wrong in keeping businesses open and controlling the numbers. It seems like really the only place that can be hailed as the example is South Korea and really it isn’t a coincidence that these places that do well are also islands.

In Australia as well, you pretty much aren’t driving between major cities. The distances are so prohibitive that no one is just driving to another big city to vacation etc. There is very little like Vancouver to Kelowna or Edmonton to Calgary.

They're also constantly going in and out of lockdowns anytime singular cases arise.
Southern australia just entered another one last week just because one restaurant owner lied about info for contact tracing.
When the system is that fragile, you have to ask if it's actually "working".

^^^ there's also New Zealand as a perfect example

Also people in Australia are constantly going on road trips, from adelaide to Melbourne, or Melbourne to Sydney, or Sydney to Brisbane etc it's quite popular/common, let alone rail travel (rail is a far more popular form of travel than here)

granted these are drives between their metropolitan cities 9-12hr drives but there are popular holiday destinations between more in tune with a Kelowna etc (like port macquarie)

Is it fragile? Or are they just really on top of their game to prevent mass outbreaks?