15 killed in an elementary school shooting texas

[Hondaracer]

I dunno.. given the frequency of these events..say you have your classroom door barricaded and the shooter just walking class room to class room executing people. I think I’d rather have the teacher in my child’s classroom armed with something they can defend the classroom with or at lest provide a deterrent rather than have somone with a rifle just shooting at will with no deterrent at all.

Seeing cops just sitting outside like this without any sort of deterrent you’re badically just sitting in your classroom waiting to eat a bullet

[westopher]

More people shoot themselves with their own gun than ever win a gunfight with a bad guy 100 fold.
As said, this isn’t a fuckin movie.
Someone I sort of know lost their grandchild due to guns. The kid grabbed it off the nightstand and shot himself in the face. He was about 3.
Being from Texas, this guy started a charity where the money went to EDUCATING CHILDREN ABOUT GUNS. The kid was FUCKING THREE. Do you think that’s a reasonable expectation that he should have figured that out?!

[Hondaracer]

Well if you went that route I’d expect you wouldn’t just hand out guns. But given the states..they probably would

If you asked anyone though if a bad guy is coming to shoot you, do you want a gun or not, I think it’s a pretty easy answer

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Alpine

Another issue is protocols and procedures. As stupid as it might sound, you can't just run into a situation Rambo style. You are trained to follow all the protocols... set up a perimeter, call the big shots in, wait for intelligence, etc...

I dunno, that worked out pretty well in Ottawa in 2014. Sitting around waiting sounds more appropriate for a hostage situation than an active shooter. Per a CNN article:

"Since the Columbine school shooting of 1999, emergency responder protocol in such situations is to end the threat as quickly as possible because fatalities occur in seconds to minutes."

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

If you asked anyone though if a bad guy is coming to shoot you, do you want a gun or not, I think it’s a pretty easy answer

A lot of answers are easy when you massively oversimplify the question.

[MarkyMark]

Start arming teachers, how long before theres a news story about a teacher shooting a student in "self defence" because he was a threat to their safety (black).

[westopher]

Re: teachers with guns
I mean no teacher has ever had mental health issues, or victimized children sexually or anything like that, so what could go wrong if you have a bunch of teachers locked in their classes with a gun? How fucking stupid does this have to get. More guns keep happening and more events like this keep happening. Plain and simple, if your solution doesn’t involve removing access to guns, you’ve been proven wrong thousands of times.

[Hondaracer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...arm-ownership/

There are 400 million civilian owned firearms in the states.

I think “restricting access” is almost harder than any other solution.

400 million guns, fuck lol

[pastarocket]

I hate to say it but restricting access to firearms on a limited or permanent basis in the US is impossible.

If you go back in history, when Bill Clinton was POTUS, he was able to sign into law an assault weapons ban in 1994. That was a temporary ban because there was a sunset clause in the legislation for an assault weapons ban. The clause invoked the end of assault weapons ban in 2004.

Several attempts by Democrat senators were made in the ensuing years to get that assault weapons ban in effect again.

Biden is trying to get an assault weapons ban as legislation for review in the House of Representatives.

Good luck with that.

There is simply no political pressure from Republican voters to get Mitch McConnell and his GOP cronies in the Senate to even consider legislation on an assault weapons ban.

Absolutely nothing.

Then you have Ted Cruz joining fat Trump at a rally this week for the NRA.

AR15 rifles and other assault weapons are easier to buy legally now than baby formula in the US.

How insane is that even in America????

[Hondaracer]

People love to get hung up on “assault weapons” however they aren’t really the issue. As we see in Canada our politicians don’t even understand basic function of firearms. They ban guns based on appearance. Virtually every semi automatic, magazine fed, firearm has the same potential.

The issue is really high capacity magazines. Which, if there are literally hundreds of millions of semi automatic firearms in the US, how many high capacity magazines are out there?

You don’t need a licence to buy a magazine. There are no checks to buy a magazine. I guarantee you even in Canada, you could go buy a perfectly legal SKS which is like the most rudimentary firearm from 50+ years ago and if you looked hard enough you’d find a handful of high capacity magazines that fit that gun.

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. You don’t need to be crazy Kyle in grandmas basement to commit these acts. If you just bide your time, slowly aquire what you need, and stay under the radar for a couple weeks, it’s the same result.

Without a complete and total overhaul of the entire system in the states, there is no answer. And this isn’t just me saying again “well ya can’t fix it so why try?” This is the reality, there is no answer.

[westopher]

At 400 million guns you have people saying
“We should have done this when there were 200 million it’s too late”
At 200 million guns
“We should have done this at 100 million it’s too late”
What do you think they will say when there’s 600 million?

[pastarocket]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

People love to get hung up on “assault weapons” however they aren’t really the issue. As we see in Canada our politicians don’t even understand basic function of firearms. They ban guns based on appearance. Virtually every semi automatic, magazine fed, firearm has the same potential.

The issue is really high capacity magazines. Which, if there are literally hundreds of millions of semi automatic firearms in the US, how many high capacity magazines are out there?

You donÂ’t need a licence to buy a magazine. There are no checks to buy a magazine. I guarantee you even in Canada, you could go buy a perfectly legal SKS which is like the most rudimentary firearm from 50+ years ago and if you looked hard enough youÂ’d find a handful of high capacity magazines that fit that gun.

Where thereÂ’s a will, thereÂ’s a way. You donÂ’t need to be crazy Kyle in grandmas basement to commit these acts. If you just bide your time, slowly aquire what you need, and stay under the radar for a couple weeks, itÂ’s the same result.

Without a complete and total overhaul of the entire system in the states, there is no answer. And this isn’t just me saying again “well ya can’t fix it so why try?” This is the reality, there is no answer.

I disagree.

The issue is that the right to bear firearms is part of the US Constitution.

This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You cannot just overhaul a "system". It's not about any system.

This is the US Constitution. The document that created the US government, establishes US laws, and guarantees basic rights for American citizens.

Good luck trying to change the U.S. Constitution.

[Hondaracer]

Prayers and Thoughts?

[MarkyMark]

They reality is make it harder and it will happen less frequently. With enough willpower you could be the next Tim McVeigh and cause more shit than a gun but people are stupid and lazy. Why do that when I can just walk into Walmart with some cash?

No law will make an immediate impact, and people are too stuck on that.

[Hondaracer]

Lol so this went completely under the radar:

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6387565

In a country where assault style firearms are completely irrelevant, with a govt. that pretended to care about gun violence, even they could not put together a program that effectively controlled the “scary” assault style weapons they were so gung ho about.

In a country like Canada, where people would likely actually turn in those firearms if ordered.

And you think the states has any semblance of a chance of doing anything remotely similar? Good luck.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

They reality is make it harder and it will happen less frequently. With enough willpower you could be the next Tim McVeigh and cause more shit than a gun but people are stupid and lazy. Why do that when I can just walk into Walmart with some cash?

No law will make an immediate impact, and people are too stuck on that.

So im saying this in all seriousness, what are you “making harder” ?

Purchasing a semi auto assault rifle from Walmart? Ok so then I can just go to Joe American down the street selling the same gun out of his garage?

I think people are VASTLY underestimating the will to even enact laws that change how transactions are made.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

I disagree.

The issue is that the right to bear firearms is part of the US Constitution.

This is the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You cannot just overhaul a "system". It's not about any system.

This is the US Constitution. The document that created the US government, establishes US laws, and guarantees basic rights for American citizens.

Good luck trying to change the U.S. Constitution.

Pretty sure you can AMEND the constitution. Things have changed since 1776.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

So im saying this in all seriousness, what are you “making harder” ?

Purchasing a semi auto assault rifle from Walmart? Ok so then I can just go to Joe American down the street selling the same gun out of his garage?

I think people are VASTLY underestimating the will to even enact laws that change how transactions are made.

Sure, say anyone who sells a gun to someone illegally gets 10 years in prison and the price of that gun goes way up I'd imagine. Set up undercover stings to see who would do it and make a tv show about it. I'd watch some fat redneck go to jail for selling guns all day long.

Once again, it won't stop every shooting but it would stop some.

[pastarocket]

Yeah, like I posted earlier today.

Any temporary or permanent ban on assault weapons is impossible.

Background checks on all legal guns purchases in the US? Difficult.

Each US state can enact their own laws on background checks.

On a federal government level, it would be difficult for legislation to be passed in the House of Representatives and the Senate for mandatory background checks.


However, will any law reduce the incidence of bloody massacres, and mass shootings in the US? I doubt it.


Remember, there are always other avenues like the black market, underground economy in the US to purchase guns. Any type of gun.

I think it would be pretty easy for an American to buy hand guns or assault rifles from a seller in the hood in order to avoid a background check from legal purchases of a gun.

[Great68]

Ah I see we've come around to the old "it's too hard, so better to do nothing" argument.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by westopher

Pretty sure you can AMEND the constitution. Things have changed since 1776.

Especially since the right to bear arms is an amendment lol.

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Remember, there are always other avenues like the black market, underground economy in the US to purchase guns. Any type of gun.

I think it would be pretty easy for an American to buy hand guns or assault rifles from a seller in the hood in order to avoid a background check from legal purchases of a gun.

That's a weak argument, on that basis nothing should ever be illegal because you can get anything on the black market. Guns, drugs, animals, people, etc. It may still be easy right after a law comes in but over time it makes it harder and more expensive.

I'm pretty sure this comes up every time there's one of these threads but also there isn't a literal black market where you just stroll up and buy stuff like at Walmart. Especially since most of these shooters are mentally ill and social outcasts I'd bet half of them would get themselves killed in the process of trying to buy a gun from some dude in a gang.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...arm-ownership/

There are 400 million civilian owned firearms in the states.

I think “restricting access” is almost harder than any other solution.

400 million guns, fuck lol

The shooter only bought the guns a few days before the shooting maybe if he had to wait 7 days before he could get the guns and make it illegal for an 18 year old to buy an assault rifle things would have been different.


Here is an add from the maker of the gun used in the shooting.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by underscore

Especially since most of these shooters are mentally ill and social outcasts I'd bet half of them would get themselves killed in the process of trying to buy a gun from some dude in a gang.

Lol,

YouTube (Short URL)

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Great68

Ah I see we've come around to the old "it's too hard, so better to do nothing" argument.

Crazy that you guys offering the opposite opinion haven’t actually come up with any solutions that could implement change?

It’s a dream world to think there is going to be some magic solution given the culture in the states.

It’s farrrrrr more likely this is going to happen relatively soon in an even worse incident, then even the slightest effective change he enacted.

I don’t think anyone saying nothing is going to change is somehow on board with the idea that change is hard so don’t do anything. It’s just the reality of the situation.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Manic!

The shooter only bought the guns a few days before the shooting maybe if he had to wait 7 days before he could get the guns and make it illegal for an 18 year old to buy an assault rifle things would have been different.


Here is an add from the maker of the gun used in the shooting.

Oh yea, a guy who’s been brooding his whole miserable life and kills his grandma and 20 4 year olds is going to DEFINITELY be turned off by the idea of waiting 7 days. Hell, make him wait 90 days. The outcome is the same.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Crazy that you guys offering the opposite opinion haven’t actually come up with any solutions that could implement change?

What the fuck are you talking about?

There are many solutions which have already been proposed. You're the ones that are saying they won't work before they have even been implemented.


No one on "opposite opinion" side is expecting things to magically get better overnight (I think you're the ones projecting that's what should happen or not bother trying), but they have to fucking start SOMEWHERE

The fact is since the previous massacres they've done the complete opposite and REMOVED gun control legislation. It doesn't take a fucking genius that realize that's going to make the situation worse, not better.