what is this thing suppose to compete against?

FWD... sounds like a GTI / hot hatch competitor but its more expensive and less performant. Isnt it just gonna eat its own civic Si market share ? thats also 200hp fwd and priced between the hybrid and the CTR.

At the end of the day, this Prelude is a 90% parts bin car, which means the development costs for Honda is pretty low. Low (engineering) effort, low cost, high margin. What is there not to like? (for Honda, that is)

IIRC Hondas have always commanded a premium over other Japanese cars. It was the very reason why my cheapa$$ dad bought Nissans and (rebadged) Mazdas instead.

200hp for the money is definitely on the low bang for the buck end of things, but the electric torque is supposed to be masking that deficiency fairly well at normal street speed.

For reasons that I cannot explain, I am oddly drawn to the car, even though I know it makes absolutely no logical sense. And I don't have the money nor the garage space for it anyway.

I don't think it competes directly against anything in particular since there's barely any affordable coupes around. It's not supposed to be a sports car so the BRZ/Miata are not competitors and it's far more stylish than owning a Civic hatch or Elantra N and it's a lot cheaper than 230i or CLE. I'm not sure who the car really is for though - I like the idea of it (a budget GT that's fuel efficient but sporty-ish) but I'm not sure there's many customers for that kind of car.

Re: Price between the hybrid and CTR - that's kinda where it should be though as it's a mix of hybrid and CTR parts. You could argue that this is basically a hybrid CTR instead of a hybrid coupe.

FWIW, it should do 0-60 in the low 6s range so while it's only 200hp it's reasonably quick. I'd be really interested in how it performs in the next gen when the hybrid drivetrain gains a rear motor and probably another 20-30hp.

TBH this is the kinda shit track people should want for a daily - fuel efficient but with great tire, brake, chassis.

BUT, I like sporty hybrids and EVs but I really think they missed the mark here.

No sportier shifting logic or whatever, it drives like a Civic.
No using EV to cut turbo lag like everyone else.
No using turbo AND motor together for regen like Porsche.
In Europe it is detuned to 180hp because of emissions, 8.2s 0-62.

If it must have batteries, it's really hard to make a case when the Mach E GT PP, Ioniq 5N, Lucid Air, or Taycan are sooooo good for the same 40k USD.

I didn't believe you could find a used Lucid Air for $40k USD, so I looked. You can sorta find ones with an accident for around that, but the accident free ones are closer to $50k. Meanwhile, used in Canada are still going for $100k Canadian pesos.

The prices went up after the EV credit went away.

Taycan RWD with close to 0 option is now solidly in high 30s low 40s but that interior will have Mitsubishi Mirage level plastics.

I went to lucid today and the air was leasing at 980 a month taxes in for 36 month and zero down.

I would have gotten it if it wasn’t for the ultra low roofline that makes getting in and out slightly challenging. Plus why do I need another sedan, the gravity is where it’s at.

It's a recycled segment, the personal coupe, but with a more modern interpretation.

This takes aim at the nostalgic 40+ crew who grew up driving Preludes but their backs and knees can't handle something like what they had before so it's in name only. There's no real competitor cause everyone quit the coupe making business.

There's no gearbox on the drivetrain, you floor it and it'll give you 100%.
There's no turbo.
I saw that the Euro version is 0-100 at 8.5s. Not sure what they did. I'd assume the gas engine makes less power cause the electric part of it would be the same.

They really should have found a bigger motor to put in, but Honda only has one motor it's putting in everything, and it's not big enough for their big cars. One can hope they revisit this package in the future when their hybrid drivetrain is ready for the Pilot, so they can drop the big 300hp hybrid drivetrain into the Prelude. Prelude SH anyone?

Normally with EVs, you'd just add a second (electric) motor into the car to power the other axle, and then you'd instantly add another X-hp to make the car go faster. The additional motor may or may not be the same size / have the same power output.

With this Prelude, I doubt there is enough room for even just a small (electric) motor to power the rear wheels as well.

US also got 15% tariff, price should be lower in Canada

It actually does simulate upshifts, but it's not like the Ioniq 5N where you can put it in a fully simulated gearbox mode so you can use the shifts to help rotate/time your corner entry.
My point is more it's a missed opportunity, whether it's driving feel, powertrain innovation, etc.

For $50000 why would you not just buy a slightly used gr Corolla, type r, or even 400z :fulloffuck:

https://global.honda/en/tech/honda_s_plus_shift/

ah looks like they did add Ioniq 5 style shifting simulation

Oh yes, thats exactly what everyone asked for. Honda new fangled automatic-ish transmissions. Cuz they totally DON'T HAVE A HiSTORy OF HORRIBLE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS.

Cant see this being an issue at all...... said a few hundred thousand TL owners, odyssey owners, etc

It's fine old man, they just connected the regen to the paddles and use the EV motor to give you a bump or two when upshifting
What power does this even have to roast a transmission with?

https://www.wardsauto.com/news/honda...oncept/805586/

V6 hybrid has potential.

The targets look shit

This means a Pilot will do 0-60 in 6.5 seconds rather than 7.5, still weak.

Combined fuel economy would be 9L/100km, terrible.

The Stellantis range extended EV is what I think they actually want to build.
- 647HP, 620lbft, 0-60 in 4.5s
- 8L/100km combined
- 150 mile EV range
- V6 engine is generator for the battery
- DC fast charging, 145kW
- 92kwh battery, 70kwh usable and 22kwh in reserve
- Vehicle to load

Honda made a V6 hybrid in the accord back in 2005. It was pretty decent on gas on the highway but couldnt compete with toyota in the city driving. Wonder how much they will improve on it with modern tech or make it a range extender a la stellantis.

https://global.honda/content/dam/sit...4040917/01.jpg

https://global.honda/en/newsroom/wor...4/4040917.html

The targets don't seem to make a lot of sense considering their MDX Hybrid from a generation ago basically could hit those numbers (I believe C/D got a combined 28mpg or so with it) already. With a clean sheet V6 coming and refinement of an existing system that works pretty well you'd think they'd be aiming for 30-33mpg for a Pilot.

In the most optimistic scenario, this could be more efficient (29 vs 27mpg) and could be 26% faster than MDX Sport Hybrid.

Step 1) Improve accel by 10% vs. MDX Type S
MDX Sport Hybrid: 5.7s, 1/4 mile in 14.5s
MDX Type S: 5.4s, 1/4 mile in 14s
-10%: 4.9s, 12.7s which is X7 40i

Step 2) Improve fuel economy by 30%
22MPG combined on Odyssey/Pilot
+30% = 29mpg, which is better than 27mpg on old Sport Hybrid.

They have to do this while fixing their emissions, which is a huge problem because none of Honda was designed to be Euro 7 compliant.
HYBRID Civic/CR-V/Prelude is derated 20hp to 181, Type R was cancelled.

Achieving better fuel economy AND emissions while maintaining power is hard enough. I'd be impressed if they pulled this off.

The problem with that is they are still getting their teeth kicked in by the X5/X7 base engine, nevermind the X5 50e which DYNOS at 500hp+. The performance MDX trim is getting owned by base engine X5/X7.

We are seeing a new generation X5 soon, with multiple drivetrains available, improved B58, improved B58 PHEV, S68 V8, EV, hydrogen.

I'm honestly surprised to hear Honda is having a rough time with emissions. Gone are the days of the CVCC engineering first company. Same with Toyota now being a rebadge company ala the dark days of GM.

Isn't Acura a dead brand like Infiniti, they literally have no competitive offerings since the Gen one tsx, they wasted away the brand image they built with the tl, mdx. They were supposed to be euro competitor while being cheaper. Sure less power but cheaper, and higher quality interior, reliability. I don't see what advantage they have now.

^ they’re getting free rent in your little head?

A lot of us car enthusiasts also forget about cost. Trying to do all of that and sell the hybrid for 60k instead of 90k also makes things a lot more difficult.

The BMW system is good but we're also seeing they have underspent on BMS - Feels like almost 20% of X5 and X3 packs degrade and require cell replacements in the warranty period.

Acura is about 10% of Honda's US volume and sells more than double Infiniti's volume but only about 40% what Lexus sells. It's not a super profitable brand but it's still got solid muscles on it.

It's been a long time since Acura was supposed to be an euro competitor - like 20 years ago? It's now just a premium Honda/Japanese brand much the same way that Lexus is no longer competing head to head with the Germans.

It's still a messy brand though - it doesn't move enough volume to print money (like Lexus probably does) so Honda doesn't really invest it in but the RDX/MDX are both good products for their price point but they are not class leading in any way.

Savagegeese had a lot to say about the state of Lexus and a lot of it applies to Acura:

https://youtu.be/WbKgiAdJpDY?si=LQ1ikNUBSR8ONY0v