New Honda Prelude... concept....

[JDMDreams]

God damnit just make a civic ek, ep hatch. Like I would buy a type r tomorrow but don't want to play with dealer games. And how can they ask for more money than a model 3.

[AstulzerRZD]

I would've rather them made a HR-V Hybrid/Type R instead of an 2 door coupe lol.

At least I could border collie a few tech bro friends into buying one

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

Random thoughts about the car:

- The tail / trunk line is just too long. This thing is dying for a properly sized wang.

- The model's success is gonna depend on final pricing and availability, and neither looks promising right now.

We already know it'll be priced somewhere between the Civic hybrid ($37k sedan / $39k for hatchback) and the Type R ($55k supposedly, but market price is nowhere close to being that low). The fewer cars there are available and the more expensive these cars are, the less popular / successful this generation of Prelude will be.

- I must be getting old and lazy bcos I feel like the absence of a manual tranny in this car would make it an enjoyable daily commuter. Traffic is increasingly getting worse in this city, and I don't need to row my own gears in when there are so many traffic lights when I am just driving around in the city.

I don't think it'll sell that well but I dig it and I like that Honda is trying this out - this is an unique car and I bet it does drive awesome considering the underlying CTR parts and the general goodness of the Civic. 0-60 in the low sixes, 45-50mpg, EV like drivetrain, sharp looks, CTR suspension but tuned for comfort - those all sound like winners except for the fact that people don't buy coupes no more. For $45k that sounds like a nice car for someone wanting a sporty coupe that's easy to live with.

re: spoiler - I saw the Honda one in one of the videos and it looks good and Mugen is going to offer one as well (along with much better looking BBS wheels) (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...ugen-body-kit/)

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by Traum

- I must be getting old and lazy bcos I feel like the absence of a manual tranny in this car would make it an enjoyable daily commuter. Traffic is increasingly getting worse in this city, and I don't need to row my own gears in when there are so many traffic lights when I am just driving around in the city.

It's not just that. Modern manual transmissions - excluding higher end sports cars - are starting to suck to drive.

Rev hang, vague clutch feel, mushy shift action + comically long throw, you might not even want it if you could drive it in flowing twisties all day long .

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I wonder why they even bother with this. Does the gr86, Miata even sell enough to make money? It's such a mid effort. Rsx, Accord coupe, Camry coupe, crz all got discontinued. Even tlx and Acura is pretty dead for their half assed efforts. Only thing that's remotely decent is 400z but that's still too much $. Supra doesn't count cuz it's a BMW.

IMO the Miata has always been Mazda's "affordable" halo car, so it would be a mistake for them to get rid of it. GR86 is a joint effort -- ie. cost-shared -- between Toyota and Subaru, with the 1st gen car started life sharing some existing Impreza parts to help reduce cost. And then the 2nd car is very much a refinement of the 1st gen, so I am guessing the overall development costs are nowhere nearly as high as a freshly developed and independent model?

It also seems reasonable to assume that this 6th gen Prelude didn't cost Honda very much in development money since it is very much a shared platform + parts bin effort. But it is being priced between the Civic hybrid and CTR. So I guess Honda's expected sales numbers would at least allow them to make some money out of the car.

Originally Posted by supafamous

re: spoiler - I saw the Honda one in one of the videos and it looks good and Mugen is going to offer one as well (along with much better looking BBS wheels)

The Mugen rear spoiler should have been an OEM piece that came on a high trim Prelude. Keep the base model wingless / spoiler-less so that people wanting the better look would fork out more money for the higher trim level. Shouldn't that have been standard practice for auto manufacturers?

And then Mugen and others should be making something the size of a Cayman GT4 wing for the Prelude.

[JDMDreams]

Make hood spoilers great again

[teggy604]

Prelude expected to come with a 2.0L 4 banger with 2 electric motors pushing 200hp.... is that some sort of joke? And they adding fake shift sounds because no mechanical gear box. Hahaha haha.


I save myself 40K and buy an old prelude any day. Whether it be auto or manual.

[RabidRat]

30 years later, same hp as before.

It almost comes for free to use high-power electric motors, why not take some beefier ones from their EV parts bin?!

[AstulzerRZD]

EV ones belong to GM lol

I still want Honda and Stellantis to merge - they could get some solid V8s, RWD platforms and most critically, an extended range EV powertrain.

imagine...

1) PHEV Odyssey but actually reliable
2) Pilot/MDX Type S hybrid with a v6, 92kwh battery, 663hp/615lbft torque, ZF8 speed, and 500 miles of range. (this is the Grand Wagoneer EREV)
3) Alfa Romeo Giulietta/Brera/GT with the Prelude bits.

[Badhobz]

this new prelude is such a piece of shit. just go die honda. JUST GO DIE !!!!

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

EV ones belong to GM lol

I still want Honda and Stellantis to merge - they could get some solid V8s, RWD platforms and most critically, an extended range EV powertrain.

imagine...

1) PHEV Odyssey but actually reliable
2) Pilot/MDX Type S hybrid with a v6, 92kwh battery, 663hp/615lbft torque, ZF8 speed, and 500 miles of range. (this is the Grand Wagoneer EREV)
3) Alfa Romeo Giulietta/Brera/GT with the Prelude bits.

I would hate that and Soichiro would rollover in his grave if that happened.

I don't think Honda has the culture to merge with someone - they may not be the Honda of Soichiro's time but they still aren't like most other car companies and Stellantis is such a shit show (just shut it down please).

[Manic!]

People don't like what Honda makes then 20 plus years later everyone wants one.

[bcrdukes]

Stellantis should just head straight to the graveyard.

[AstulzerRZD]

ok like I generally agree that the company is a mess, especially the software

but other than the germans, they're the only ones making fun cars like Wrangler, V8s attached to reliable transmission (ZF8), and dope seats + quiet cabins (Durango/RAM).
launch control is 4500 rpm on the 500hp RAM RHO.. and you get a 10 year/160k km warranty.

Without them we would be stuck with exploding Tundras, that shit new audi cabin, and 4 cylinder C63s.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Traum

We already know it'll be priced somewhere between the Civic hybrid ($37k sedan / $39k for hatchback) and the Type R ($55k supposedly, but market price is nowhere close to being that low).

Come to think of it, the Mk8 GTI (aka Badhobz' Hitler Box) starts at ~$39k. If VW can inflate its residual value to offer a $500/month lease, wouldn't Honda be able to easily use their naturally high residual to also come up with a $500/month lease for this Prelude?

Then watch Badhobz get into the said Prelude when his GTI lease runs out. And then we'll remind him he said this:

Originally Posted by Badhobz

this new prelude is such a piece of shit. just go die honda. JUST GO DIE !!!!

[AstulzerRZD]

Honda has too much self esteem to bump their residuals like that

They'd rather put you into a Prologue... which is somehow #2 selling EV in the US

[TypeRNammer]

It's still pretty wild to think that the Toyota and Subaru twins started life as a hacked and shortened Impreza WRX platform.

I had a 2014 Subaru BRZ when it was first released. Interior felt really cheap, and it was gutless because of the torque dip issues. Otherwise it was a reasonably fun car.

[bcrdukes]

Dodge etc. can continue making their cars. I have no doubts they will fulfill that market. You can continue loving your Jeeps, and that's ok. But since their dominating empire, what really has genuinely worked well for them? As a customer and as a shareholder, I'm not seeing the long term value.

Re: Badhobz in a Prelude. I think he'll get one when the GTI lease runs out while secretly waxing his Porsche 911 Turbo that will never see the light of day. (Probably has one. Just won't admit it.)

[bcrdukes]

His "thank" must mean he has a Porsche. Hah!

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by Traum

Come to think of it, the Mk8 GTI (aka Badhobz' Hitler Box) starts at ~$39k. If VW can inflate its residual value to offer a $500/month lease, wouldn't Honda be able to easily use their naturally high residual to also come up with a $500/month lease for this Prelude?

Then watch Badhobz get into the said Prelude when his GTI lease runs out. And then we'll remind him he said this:

Can anyone school me on how this works?

How is it profitable for manufacturers to fake a too-high residual value on leases??

Eventually they have to sell that lease return at a loss. And they're the ones paying for that loss, right?

Is this all about tax write-offs??

[AstulzerRZD]

That + they can re-sell them CPO and make money on that financing again.

[RabidRat]

Ya but the total amount of equity being financed is still the same? Just that it was split up between two parties.

If anything, the amount of equity being financed is less, because the 3-year lessee only financed the first 20% of the vehicle's value, and then because the residual was fakely high, the dealer now has to sell it CPO at the actual value, like 66% of the vehicle's value. Who's eating the missing 14%?!

[AstulzerRZD]

Imagine a faked residual of 30k when the actual residual is 25k

25k is what it'd be worth at auction/at like a Kingsway lot.

BMW FS will make
- 27k selling it to a dealer who will sell it CPO
- 2k on interest financing the CPO buyer
- 1k on interest initially
- and maybe there was some other penalty somewhere in the supply chain worth 1k if they reduced production

[mikemhg]

This is interesting stuff.

So VW is known for inflating the residual value on leases? What other automakers do the same?

[AstulzerRZD]

MB and BMW are reliable residual boosters.
VW and Audi are stingy, really surprised the GTI had a deal.