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Old 01-29-2007, 04:37 AM   #101
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There are dimwitted people from both college & trades. Both camps have some really smart and hard working people who go on to live great lives. Anyone who thinks otherwise is himself a dimwit. (besides, smart/rich are relative terms and by definition we all fall somewhere in the middle)

I am a hands-on kinda guy and getting into trades would have been the natural thing to do. Most of my relatives hold blue-collar jobs and on average they earn higher incomes than relatives with white collar jobs. I also have many family members that have profitable businesses that I could join. However, I chose the BA/MBA route because I realize there are many things I want to do that demand a good formal education. Its something that gives you (in context) credibility and stature that will be with you for the rest of your life. A good education is not just something you add to your resume but the experience itself exposes your mind to ideas unimaginable and can totally transform the way you view yourself and the world in which you live.

Getting into trades is great move imo (minimum risk/high payoff), and if you work hard enough you can easily make $100,000+/year and live very comfortably. Having said that, I do know trades-people who are incredibly intelligent whom I think should take a shot at college (and excel at it)

The college route can be liken to a big gamble, unless you plan on really working your ass off and immersing yourself into your studies (or if you're just really damn smart; damn u ) you may very well end up like the majority of UBC/SFU students who graduate with no sense of direction and/or no area of expertise. Most of these students were here for the wrong reason(s), they believe that a university degree automatically entails them to great opportunities. I think students with this kind of mentality shouldn't be here.

Ultimately its about knowing yourself. There is no 'best way' and there is no 'ideal income' it all depends on who you are, what you want, and what you are capable of. And who you are cannot and should not be compared to other people.
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Old 01-29-2007, 07:08 AM   #102
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I think some of you guys are making comments about 'trades' without acually knowing anything about an apprenticeship program.
The jobs alot of you are refering to are what we call 'sub-trades'.

These would include siding guys, drywallers, floor layers, painters; see where I'm going with this? These jobs take a minimal amount of schooling and brains, and usually these people don't know construction past their field. These people generally work long hours, and make good money. If you wanted to start your own company in one of these fields, you wouldn't need any certificate or education; in fact, you wouldn't even have had to done it before.

Then there are acually registered trades where after 4 years of a combination of work and school you get a 'ticket' in your field and are considered professional. This would include framers, plumbers, electricans, HVAC, etc.

Just because I come home with dirty hands, doesn't mean I spent all day digging a ditch.
I think some of you 'basket-weavers' would be floored to see a typical electrical plan.
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Old 01-29-2007, 11:47 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by loc0
I think some of you guys are making comments about 'trades' without acually knowing anything about an apprenticeship program.
The jobs alot of you are refering to are what we call 'sub-trades'.

These would include siding guys, drywallers, floor layers, painters; see where I'm going with this? These jobs take a minimal amount of schooling and brains, and usually these people don't know construction past their field. These people generally work long hours, and make good money. If you wanted to start your own company in one of these fields, you wouldn't need any certificate or education; in fact, you wouldn't even have had to done it before.

Then there are acually registered trades where after 4 years of a combination of work and school you get a 'ticket' in your field and are considered professional. This would include framers, plumbers, electricans, HVAC, etc.

Just because I come home with dirty hands, doesn't mean I spent all day digging a ditch.
I think some of you 'basket-weavers' would be floored to see a typical electrical plan.
Drywallers and a framers go hand and hand. If you have a TQ in framing that also includes drywall. Every framer that works for us drywalls, does suspended ceilings ect.... The majority of them also have a TQ and either did their 4 years at BCIT or were in the industry so long they challenged the test with the same result.

I don't get my hands dirty very often anymore but to say that people who do drywall are dumb or not professional is pulling out a huge brush and unfairly painting a lot of people. Don't get me wrong there are a fair share of idiots but there are also a lot of good walls/ceiling installers who consider their job a profession. I'd like to see someone who hasn't done a trade before open up and succesfully run that business.

BTW you so called registered trades ie: Plumbers, Electricians, HVAC are all subtrades as well the only one who isn't the person doing work directly for the owner which in most cases is the General Contractor.
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:15 PM   #104
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Dude, framers do not do drywall. Most of the drywallers on our sites can't even speak english.
There is a clear difference between a post-secondary education of a drywaller and a framer, or a framer and an electrican.

Now what I was saying is people tend to use the word 'trades' loosley. Being thrown in the same boat as a drywaller, insulator, or tile-setter is an insult for an electrican, heating guy, gas fitter, or plumber.

Sure, you can be successful working 10-12 hour days insulating, but who the hell would want to do that.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:57 AM   #105
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Originally posted by Z3guy
Hey Sketch,

I am a UBC grad as well, say what you want, but you know deep inside you regret not going to a good post secondary school.....I love guys who have to overcompensate.....even if you make minimum wage, being educated stays with you for life....post secondary is not about making more money........all I can say is I am doing what I want to do career wise...can you say the same?.....maybe you can response on your 5 min coffee break.

Well said man...
Everybody starts from the bottom....
Even university/college students....
Depending on field and jobs..... education will take you a long way...

Btw... I wish I went to "a" post secondary school..

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Old 01-30-2007, 09:05 AM   #106
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hey

Quote:
Originally posted by SlySi
Well said man...
Everybody starts from the bottom....
Even university/college students....
But for most higher paying jobs... education will take you a long way...

Btw... I wish I went to "a" post secondary school..
Hey SlySi,

I went to UBC and studied marketing....my dream was to become a brand manager for a packaged good company....I accomplished my goal.....but never in a million years did I think I would enjoy sales and sale mgmt more so than pure marketing....plus you can make more dough in sales Vs marketing....I noticed on your profile you are in sales......good for you....regardless of your education, if you love sales/sales mgmt, you will do well....sales people are born, not made.....you can become a better sales person...with training, etc......what kind of sales do you do?
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Old 01-30-2007, 11:17 AM   #107
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dont you gusy remember the apprentice season 2
street smarts vs book smarts
the street smarts guys didnt go to school and went straight to work after highschool. the booksmarts guy spent 4-8 years extra in school. by the time they were on the apprentice, the street smarts guys were making 3x what the book smarts guys were
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Old 01-30-2007, 11:29 AM   #108
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street smarts Vs book smarts

Quote:
Originally posted by unit03
dont you gusy remember the apprentice season 2
street smarts vs book smarts
the street smarts guys didnt go to school and went straight to work after highschool. the booksmarts guy spent 4-8 years extra in school. by the time they were on the apprentice, the street smarts guys were making 3x what the book smarts guys were
Hey Unit03, I agree with your comments about street smart guys making more dough than book smart guys.....again, let me reiterate, going to school is not making money, it is about pursuing your work passion. A couple things Unit30 does not take into account are;

Street Smarts Vs Book Smarts: what percentage of people with Street smarts make good money Vs percentage of book smart people? I will bet my M3 that book smarts will win out. However, I am not saying street smarts people cannot make good money...just a smaller percentage.

Street Smarts + Book Smarts - how marketable are you if you have book smarts + street smarts.....you'll kill it....world is your oyster.
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Old 01-30-2007, 01:26 PM   #109
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Re: hey

Quote:
Originally posted by Z3guy
Hey SlySi,

I went to UBC and studied marketing....my dream was to become a brand manager for a packaged good company....I accomplished my goal.....but never in a million years did I think I would enjoy sales and sale mgmt more so than pure marketing....plus you can make more dough in sales Vs marketing....I noticed on your profile you are in sales......good for you....regardless of your education, if you love sales/sales mgmt, you will do well....sales people are born, not made.....you can become a better sales person...with training, etc......what kind of sales do you do?

Yes.. Iv been in sales for over 13 years now.
Im in computer distribution sales.
Theres only 2 big computer distributors in North America... and I work for one of them.. Been here for 7 years now. Love it..
Its great... But keeping up with quotas month over month can get a bit mind numbing...

I think my original point is... there are just so many people who bash people because they went to school. I see it here... other forums.. etc...

If I had a good post educational background combined with my sales experience...

Life would be different.. Gauranteed...

But... I guess I could go back to school.. But that would just effect my current plans and goals....

We shall see..
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Old 01-30-2007, 02:02 PM   #110
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Re: Re: hey

Quote:
Originally posted by SlySi
Yes.. Iv been in sales for over 13 years now.
Im in computer distribution sales.
Theres only 2 big computer distributors in North America... and I work for one of them.. Been here for 7 years now. Love it..
Its great... But keeping up with quotas month over month can get a bit mind numbing...

I think my original point is... there are just so many people who bash people because they went to school. I see it here... other forums.. etc...

If I had a good post educational background combined with my sales experience...

Life would be different.. Gauranteed...

But... I guess I could go back to school.. But that would just effect my current plans and goals....

We shall see..
Hey SlySi, I have been in beverage alc sales for 10+ years working for Tier A suppliers.....similar to you....the value where an univerisity education kicks in if you want to move into senior management....I mean VP level and up...however if you are happy being a sales rep or sales mgr, performance on the street is the most important.....if you don't have a degree, the most important asest is your customers connections and knowledge of the street. I have an undergrad in biz, but if I wanted to be VP or Pres one day, I pretty sure I would have to go back to school and get my MBA..........net net I think the most important people in almost any company are the people closest to where the profit is being generated.
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Old 01-30-2007, 10:30 PM   #111
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There are lots of people in this world that would shovel dog poo all day long if they were paid six figures to do it. I'm not one of those people.
there are also the people who are porn stars that earns over 100K and then there are the people who uses the internet to generate 100K a year and they sit at home and drive nice cars all day. There are also the people who are growing weed and earning 200K a yr... etc.... something that only came within the last 10 yrs.
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Old 02-01-2007, 07:01 PM   #112
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^i think the point eff-1 was trying to make is that he's not the type of person that would take a job simply because it pays well; he has to enjoy it too. i'd say that i'm the same way. If you put in 40hrs/week, that's about a quarter of your adult life. I'd like to spend that quarter doing something i enjoy.
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:16 PM   #113
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Good points... especially for those in sales like SlySi and Z3Guy. Check your PM!

I'm in a sales-related field as well, the only major difference is I get to see alot of different types of jobs and industries. For those who can't guess it, it's banking.

An interesting observation - sometimes I get the feeling that people consider white-collar jobs more higher class / higher paid when the reality (as many can attest) is quite different. With the exception of major stock brokers, hedge fund / mutual fund managers and analysts, you would be surprised how much more people working for government / trades make compared to a regular office worker.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:15 AM   #114
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oh yea! I am on track!

:P

until age of 24 that is.

making about $7000 US for 3 months as an research assistant now while being a full time student.

Hopefully I'll get back on track soon!
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Old 07-23-2007, 01:06 AM   #115
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An interesting observation - sometimes I get the feeling that people consider white-collar jobs more higher class / higher paid when the reality (as many can attest) is quite different. With the exception of major stock brokers, hedge fund / mutual fund managers and analysts, you would be surprised how much more people working for government / trades make compared to a regular office worker.
QFT!

One thing to consider in a job too, is how many hours a week does the job consume. I'm a tech at a dealership (just over 3 yrs now). At the end of the day, I punch out at about 5, and go home, and don't think about my job until 830 the next morning. When I take 3 weeks off for vacation, I have no concern for a pile of work when I get back, or a looming deadline. No follow ups while I'm away, no catch up when I get back.

On the other hand, some of my friends my age, in business, who've been working for less than a year are already going in on Saturdays, staying late, and of course working at home.

I don't know what sort of money they make, but if they're raking in tons of cash, it's not obvious (no expensive purchases like cars or houses or anything). I've got absolutely no complaints about my pay, and a raise is in the works. I don't spend too freely, but I'm pretty damn pleased with my bank account and it's rate of growth.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:20 PM   #116
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true. esp. when u work in asia.
yeah. it's great that u're earning 60 K CDN, but if i haev to work from 8-8 PM and work alternate saturdays and then get my face shatted on everyday by my boss.. i rather take a pay cut and leave at a reasonable hour.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:31 PM   #117
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fair enough guys, totally see your pts of view in regards to Hours of Work Vs Total Compensation, makes sense.

However, if you are in your 20s and want to make good to big money, you gotta work crazy hours to get the next promotion. Think of it as a time investment. I agree, for the first few years in business, your $$ per hour are probably going to be real low, but you are learning allot about business and really setting yourself up for future success. When I started out as a sales rep, I was making $40K a year +car, +expense acct, and bonus. but working 70+hrs per week. I was single and it was pretty fun, so I didn't mind. If I didn't bust my nut at the beginning of my career, I don't think I would have enjoyed the same success today.

I guess it comes down to "different strokes for different folks". However, there is no free lunch....my stress level is crazy and my hair is turning grey!...the price you pay to make a few bucks.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:32 PM   #118
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Assoc of Professional Engineers compensation survey:

http://apeg.bc.ca/library/compsurvey.html

I would say that every jump in the survey is approx 1-2 years.

You can also see it broken down into more specific categories. Electrical / computer engs seems to make slightly higher than others.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:06 AM   #119
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ask CKMack, i would guess that he's making good money for his age
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:07 AM   #120
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and a goal of 200k/year by 30 would be nice, let's do thisssss
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:57 AM   #121
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this thread depresses me!

I made the mistake of going to school for something I wanted to do and knew I'd like doing for years. That was clearly a mistake.

Sadly theres no jobs in Vancouver for that kind of work and here in Canada those jobs are few and far in between unless I move to Armpit, Manitoba.

At 26 I'm too old for university and can only hope to find a vocational school that'll springboard me into a decent career.

These numbers are -very- depressing to see.
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Old 08-04-2007, 01:42 PM   #122
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if you are hands on guy, trades are the way to go... i know a guy that finished his commercial transport ELTT and is in second year apprentice. hes making just over 100k a year and hes only an apprentice, btw hes only 20. I'm taking HD ELTT right now.. hopefully i'll be set when i'm finished.
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Old 08-04-2007, 04:51 PM   #123
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if you are hands on guy, trades are the way to go... i know a guy that finished his commercial transport ELTT and is in second year apprentice. hes making just over 100k a year and hes only an apprentice, btw hes only 20. I'm taking HD ELTT right now.. hopefully i'll be set when i'm finished.
I'm not trying to bash the poster here. But a lot of people claim that all the jobs and money are in the trades industry. This is however true at the moment, but a lot of people don't realize the jobs are there because of the real estate and housing boom over the course of the last few years.

I believe that these trades jobs are cyclical relative to the state of the economy. Think about when there is no longer a demand for these workers, or when the construction projects dry out or when there is a state of recession.

My projection is that from here to a time frame of 2-3 years, jobs in the trades industry will be plenty and rewarding. But after that its a guess as good as yours and mine.
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Old 08-04-2007, 07:51 PM   #124
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i guess you could say that about the construction trades.....
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Old 08-05-2007, 02:31 PM   #125
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I work in IT. I went to BCIT for one year, but took no additional certifications. I stopped getting money from my parents when I started working at 15. I just turned 22. I moved into a beachfront apartment downtown (But its old )2 months ago on my own financial terms. My salary is a flat 50k. I have time in my job to run a couple side businesses, some of them successful, some just getting off the ground. I paid off my car when I was 20. I go on one big vacation every year, next month im going to Korea/Japan. Combined with the investing I do I gross over 60k. With some tax strategies I do I take home about 90% of that after tax. All 100% legit. I plan to be six digits by 25 (Of course not from my salary, but that combined with side stuff) It's all about connections, marketing yourself, knowing how money works, and having good timing. It's funny Jackie Chan made a good quote about this, he said timing is everything, if he did what he does now 20 years ago, he would be a flop, but in these times society accepts that kind of comedy now hes just raking in the cash from it. Sometimes I feel I went to University so I can already be making 6 digits and not have to spend my time working on the side stuff, but im doing quite alright so far.
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