Suggestion for tipping at a restaurant

[Noir]

Originally Posted by November

I just don't feel like I deserve to have my cash taken away from me to serve a customer.

Okay. You may have to explain this bit for me. How is cash being taken away from you when a customer fails to tip?

I can't seriously see you losing anything out-of-pocket.

[November]

Originally Posted by Noir

Okay. You may have to explain this bit for me. How is cash being taken away from you when a customer fails to tip?

I can't seriously see you losing anything out-of-pocket.

OK, Assume that I have $20 float (servers at my restaurant all keep their own float for change. It comes out of my wallet).

Say a table comes in and their final bill is $100. They tip nothing. Assume that this is the only table that I serve all night. (unlikely, but for demonstration sake)

The amount of cash that I'm holding right now is $120. $100 which belongs to the restaurant, $20 which belongs to me.

At the end of the night, I may have to tip out, say 3% of my total bills/revenue to kitchen and house.

That means that when I am doing my cash-out, I have to give the $100 back to the restaurant and then I have to give out $3 tip to the kitchen and house.

I end up leaving with $17, which is $3 less than what I came to work with.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by November

At the end of the night, I may have to tip out, say 3% of my total bills/revenue to kitchen and house.

Okay, if the 3% is paid out to the kitchen from the total bills/revenue. That means that the $3 paid out is coming from the $100 earned by the restaurant. So if that were the case, this is not an out-of-pocket expense to you.

However, if the agreement is that the kitchen gets 3% of total tips pool. You pay $0 because the total tips pool in your example is zero. Again, at no cost to you, and if there were, it would only cost you a portion of your tips. Not out of pocket.

I don't see why the $20 that you say belongs to you in the beginning would not belong to you by the end of the night.

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by Noir

Okay, if the 3% is paid out to the kitchen from the total bills/revenue. That means that the $3 paid out is coming from the $100 earned by the restaurant. So if that were the case, this is not an out-of-pocket expense to you.

However, if the agreement is that the kitchen gets 3% of total tips pool. You pay $0 because the total tips pool in your example is zero. Again, at no cost to you, and if there were, it would only cost you a portion of your tips. Not out of pocket.

I don't see why the $20 that you say belongs to you in the beginning would not belong to you by the end of the night.

The tip out is based on revenue, but still comes from your tips.

[misteranswer]

Originally Posted by Great68

I was not referring to tip pool. I was referring to paycheque. Misteranswer stated that a restaurant may dock an employee's paycheque for money that is "short", when Legally they cannot do this.

I called False on his false.

Tip pools are completely different. They are set up by agreements between staff & ownership, usually explained at start of employment. Some restaurants do not have tip pools. Either way, they cannot impact base wage.

The Canada Labour Code says

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (2)(c), no employer shall, pursuant to that paragraph, make a deduction in respect of damage to property, or loss of money or property, if any person other than the employee had access to the property or money in question.

and as shown earlier in the BC Employment Standards Act, it says

21 (1) Except as permitted or required by this Act or any other enactment of British Columbia or Canada

I'm not lawyer, but now I don't think this is clear cut. It sounds to me the Labour code says you can, but then the Employment act kinda says you can IF it's deemed a cost of doing business.

[Cman333]

<10% if shitty
10ish% if service was ok
20-30% if service was remarkable

If I get shitty food and service then I'll usually leave 5-10%. If I'm pissed I leave before the food even comes.

[rslater]

Originally Posted by Noir

However, if the agreement is that the kitchen gets 3% of total tips pool. You pay $0 because the total tips pool in your example is zero. Again, at no cost to you, and if there were, it would only cost you a portion of your tips. Not out of pocket.

I don't see why the $20 that you say belongs to you in the beginning would not belong to you by the end of the night.

I don't understand how you don't understand what he's trying to say. His example was so simple. Its like basic common sense what he's saying. Yes I agree its an INFORMAL agreemant between the restrauant and employee that is NOT inforcable by law. HOWEVER, his example would demonstrate an instance in which he would lose his OWN personal money. The $20 at the start of the night belongs to him, and at the end of the night he's left with $17 from his $20. He paid out of his OWN pocket $3 to the bartenders, kitchen and hostesses. I'm not sure exactly if a manager would say he doesn't have to tip out because he made no tips, however, in principal he would have too pay out that $3.

[bcrdukes]

BC Employment Standards Act

Q: What can be deducted from wages?

A: The only lawful deductions that can be taken from pay cheques are those for Canada Pension Plan, Employment Insurance, Income Tax and any other deductions authorized by the employee in writing to pay on their behalf money to a union, charity, social fund, insurance company (medical, dental, insurance plan) or to meet a credit obligation.

I think anything beyond that, on the topic of tips, is between the restaurant and the employee.

[325ist]

Originally Posted by v1nce

When I went to wings @ surrey yesterday, they had already included the tips in the bill. It was under some categorie called service charge.

That would make me so mad, I would pay in cash the exact amount for the food and walk out. I usually tiip 20 percent rregardless but it is getting retarded> tipping to eat, to get your hair cut..... I just want to pay list price for once

[Great68]

I have no problem with service charges, provided the customer is notified up front. The customer can then decide to leave if they do not want to pay service charges.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by rslater

I don't understand how you don't understand what he's trying to say. His example was so simple. Its like basic common sense what he's saying. Yes I agree its an INFORMAL agreemant between the restrauant and employee that is NOT inforcable by law. HOWEVER, his example would demonstrate an instance in which he would lose his OWN personal money. The $20 at the start of the night belongs to him, and at the end of the night he's left with $17 from his $20. He paid out of his OWN pocket $3 to the bartenders, kitchen and hostesses. I'm not sure exactly if a manager would say he doesn't have to tip out because he made no tips, however, in principal he would have too pay out that $3.

Oh no. Trust me, I understand his example completely in a mathematical level. It's on the principle that I don't understand why tips to the kitchen should be borne out of the waiters out-of-pocket cash when tips are not present.

If what he's saying is correct that the kitchen gets 3% (as per November's example) regardless of whether a tip was left by the customer or not, that's not a tip. That's a 3% Kitchen commission. Commission because despite a tip not being present, the 3% seems like a mandatory entitlement for the kitchen.

If it IS commission, then those are not the employee's (waiter's) responsibility but the employer's. By which meaning November should NEVER be paying out-of-pocket.

Tips in my definition = Gratuity. Meaning that if no gratuity is available, nobody gets benefits. However, if gratuity is left by the customer, then the benefits are shared between waiter & kitchen staff.

Disclaimer: I may have a limited knowledge as I've never worked the food industry, but I'm seriously going on common sense here.

[misteranswer]

It's not a requirement, so it's not really a commission. It's just how things work.

I think it probably stems from the fact that the level of work the kitchen staff has to do for your customers is more tied to revenue than the amount of tips you server gets.

[pintoBC_3sgte]

Originally Posted by Cman333

<10% if shitty
10ish% if service was ok
20-30% if service was remarkable

If I get shitty food and service then I'll usually leave 5-10%. If I'm pissed I leave before the food even comes.

lol kinda go by your lil system ok-remarkable. but if i get shitty food and shitty service i tip 0-5% . They didnt do anything to service you or make it an enjoyable experience then why should they get anything in return

lol dont know if it works at all places like this but i know at cactus club when waiters and waitresses dont get tipped they end up paying out of thier own pocket when they tip out (certain % goes to kitchen and restaurnt) at the end of the night : suckers

[rslater]

Originally Posted by Noir

Oh no. Trust me, I understand his example completely in a mathematical level. It's on the principle that I don't understand why tips to the kitchen should be borne out of the waiters out-of-pocket cash when tips are not present.

If what he's saying is correct that the kitchen gets 3% (as per November's example) regardless of whether a tip was left by the customer or not, that's not a tip. That's a 3% Kitchen commission. Commission because despite a tip not being present, the 3% seems like a mandatory entitlement for the kitchen.

If it IS commission, then those are not the employee's (waiter's) responsibility but the employer's. By which meaning November should NEVER be paying out-of-pocket.

Tips in my definition = Gratuity. Meaning that if no gratuity is available, nobody gets benefits. However, if gratuity is left by the customer, then the benefits are shared between waiter & kitchen staff.

Disclaimer: I may have a limited knowledge as I've never worked the food industry, but I'm seriously going on common sense here.

Ahh interesting theory. I never thought of it that way. I guess your right if a waiter gets no tips and has to still tip out, the onus should actually fall on the restaraunt.

[misteranswer]

I heard that if you really want to signal to your server that you believe they gave bad service is to give them the tip as a pile of change.

If you want to signal really good service, add a penny on top.

[JesseBlue]

tipping just gives restaurant owners and "bosses" an excuse not to pay workers higher because people will give it to them...
anyway tipping should be because you get extraordinary service and not because you are obliged to or because everyone is doing it...
the restaurant should just add 10 percent for all the bill and mark it as "what's that term"..?..so people wouldn't be confused and make threads on how much to tip at restaurants

[extracrunchie]

im not against tipping but how about places that only accepts cash? i mean if its just cash, you're basically giving the owner more money. Unlike debits or CC.

[Qmx323]

.....When they charge ur debit card/CC there is an option to give % tip or monetary amount....

just like cash

infact the owner loses money to service charges and fees from their EFT provider. Which is why some places only accept cash so they can save a little bit of money at the expense of customers who only carry plastic.

[ConCho]

Originally Posted by Qmx323

.....When they charge ur debit card/CC there is an option to give % tip or monetary amount....

just like cash

infact the owner loses money to service charges and fees from their EFT provider. Which is why some places only accept cash so they can save a little bit of money at the expense of customers who only carry plastic.

That and some restaurants (mostly Asian restaurants) avoid taxes so what they do is only accept cash. They can write any number they want to tax afterwards.

Depends. Generally if it's a new place and the service was really good, maybe 10%-20%

If the service was terrible, we would tip low, less than 10%

If we are a regular and the service is always good, tip is usually high.

Race doesn't matter, service is service.

[extracrunchie]

Originally Posted by ConCho

That and some restaurants (mostly Asian restaurants) avoid taxes so what they do is only accept cash. They can write any number they want to tax afterwards.

Depends. Generally if it's a new place and the service was really good, maybe 10%-20%

If the service was terrible, we would tip low, less than 10%

If we are a regular and the service is always good, tip is usually high.

Race doesn't matter, service is service.

Yup that and HST........therefore you're giving them 20%

[q0192837465]

I just give 10% pre-tax rounded down to the nearest quarter as tips. Yea, I'm not a good tipper.

[darkfroggy]

I never really got the notion of tipping.

You don't tip your teachers, your doctors, your grocery cashiers... why should food servers be any different?

[MelonBoy]

15-20% = Excellent server (friendly + solid food)
10% = Average (Typically how much I give)
My garbage (penny,dimes,nickels) change I get back from a bill = Garbage service/food (Food + server sucked)

Proabably only had 2-3 times, where I left like 1% tip or nothing...

I use a tip app on my iphone it lets you rate the service + food and gives you a nice little percentage haha

[Deathdot]

is it terrible that me and my girlfriend tipped 1 cent? here's the story:

we went to bubble world, which usually has pretty good service and food times, so we went last saturday and the restaurant was 60% full, not bad right? Well. There was 2 waitresses, 1 who would seat people and take one half of the restaurant, the other would take ours. So we already knew what we wanted to get, and it was only 2 dishes. First of all, she comes to our table 10 minutes after we're seated, and then, basically just doesn't say anything when she brings the water and puts the water on our table and walks away.

Anyway, so when she came back 5 mins after that we decided to order our 2 dishes. Just after 6-7 minutes or so, 2 more tables were seated, these tables came a good 20 minutes after us, and it was 2 people to each table. Anyway, one table ordered 2 drinks and 3 dishes, and the other table ordered 4 dishes and 2 drinks. Well, we waited 30 minutes, and we finally get our food. Chicken was overcooked to death, fish was bland.

And guess what? The two tables before us got their whole meal before us. We even had to wait for the fish to come out because they didnt come out at the same time.

So, basically, we waited around 45 minutes for our food, terrible pissed off waitress giving us attitude, terrible food (which i remembered isn't usually like this), disorganized kitchen (in the kitchen it's always first bill in first bill out, so what the fuck happened?) Well yeah so it's time to pay our bill, she gets that quickly. We didn't say anything to her and left her only 1 cent for the tip. Too harsh or correct move? I think she should have realized that she deserved it.

[6793026]

^ i'm don't run a professional restaurant but not everything is first in first out. I'm not going to wait 20 min for some douche's baked rice when i ordered fishballs that come from an already heated pot even though i ordered mine after the table.