Scammed $5250 from Evo Garage

[orange7]

Originally Posted by mpr

If the oil consumption from the beginning till now is due to leaky seals and or guides, what does Evo Garage have to say about their warranty? Does it actually cover in this instance?

well it was a private sale done by david, not by evo garage.


If you sold me a nintendo dsi pivately on craiglist and whether you knew it had a faulty battery or not, would you warranty me if I came back to you in 3 months to say the battery life is only 1hr long when fully charged.

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by orange7

well it was a private sale done by david, not by evo garage.


If you sold me a nintendo dsi pivately on craiglist and whether you knew it had a faulty battery or not, would you warranty me if I came back to you in 3 months to say the battery life is only 1hr long when fully charged.

this.

[Sw0op]

Originally Posted by orange7

well it was a private sale done by david, not by evo garage.


If you sold me a nintendo dsi pivately on craiglist and whether you knew it had a faulty battery or not, would you warranty me if I came back to you in 3 months to say the battery life is only 1hr long when fully charged.

on top of that, even if it had warranty..would you still honour it after they:
1. Knowingly manipulated the item against warranty terms
2. Deceived you about #1

[dangonay]

One thing I've learned from this thread is the number of people on RS with no fucking clue about mechanics.

I'll make it really simple for you:

Chipping or modding an ECU has nothing to do with valve guides/seals going bad.

For those that believe the two are linked, then I'd love to hear your explanation.



I had a transmission fail in a truck several years ago (new truck, under warranty). I get a call back from the dealer and they inform me the transmission needs to be replaced as it was "burned out" (their words, probably meaning burned clutches). The advisor then asks me if I was doing any towing.

The truth is I was towing a trailer at the time my transmission started acting up (trailer weight 5,500lbs, truck towing capacity 7,700 lbs). I was well under the towing capabilitiy of the truck. I knew where this was going, as they were probably going to insinuate I was towing an oversized load which damaged the transmission.

So I told them I hadn't done any towing since last year, and it was a small utility trailer (to explain why I had a hitch and wiring harness on the truck). The guy goes "oh" and then explains that I'm getting a new transmission and when my truck will be ready.

So I lied to the dealer about me towing, but it was irrelevant since I was not towing an oversized load and was a full 2,000lbs under the vehicle capacity. Why should I give the dealer any sort of "ammunition" to try and deny my warranty when I did nothing wrong?


So you see, there are good reasons for keeping certain information to yourself. Especially if something you did had no bearing on the issue/problem you're having, but the other party may try to say that it did.

And in this case, hearing Evo say a modded ECU and the oil leak are related just shows the OP was right in not bringing it up.


BTW, if the engine was sold privately, then why was any warranty work done in the first place? It should have been sold "as is", yet Evo still had the engine repaired the first time. Seems a little fishy to me.

[alex.w *//]

soo where else has this thread been spread too?

vcc
hondatech

...

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by dangonay

BTW, if the engine was sold privately, then why was any warranty work done in the first place? It should have been sold "as is", yet Evo still had the engine repaired the first time. Seems a little fishy to me.

because he wasnt a bad seller. if he was a bad seller, he wouldve just told him to gtfo and wouldntve went through the hassle the second time.

i'd like to see any one pull off the same thing with a local machine shop with a cash job.

[Energy]

^^^ Thanks for the information dangonay. Helps the rest of us non mechanics understand this more.

[white_guilt]

Originally Posted by dangonay

One thing I've learned from this thread is the number of people on RS with no fucking clue about mechanics.

I'll make it really simple for you:

Chipping or modding an ECU has nothing to do with valve guides/seals going bad.

For those that believe the two are linked, then I'd love to hear your explanation.



I had a transmission fail in a truck several years ago (new truck, under warranty). I get a call back from the dealer and they inform me the transmission needs to be replaced as it was "burned out" (their words, probably meaning burned clutches). The advisor then asks me if I was doing any towing.

The truth is I was towing a trailer at the time my transmission started acting up (trailer weight 5,500lbs, truck towing capacity 7,700 lbs). I was well under the towing capabilitiy of the truck. I knew where this was going, as they were probably going to insinuate I was towing an oversized load which damaged the transmission.

So I told them I hadn't done any towing since last year, and it was a small utility trailer (to explain why I had a hitch and wiring harness on the truck). The guy goes "oh" and then explains that I'm getting a new transmission and when my truck will be ready.

So I lied to the dealer about me towing, but it was irrelevant since I was not towing an oversized load and was a full 2,000lbs under the vehicle capacity. Why should I give the dealer any sort of "ammunition" to try and deny my warranty when I did nothing wrong?


So you see, there are good reasons for keeping certain information to yourself. Especially if something you did had no bearing on the issue/problem you're having, but the other party may try to say that it did.

And in this case, hearing Evo say a modded ECU and the oil leak are related just shows the OP was right in not bringing it up.


BTW, if the engine was sold privately, then why was any warranty work done in the first place? It should have been sold "as is", yet Evo still had the engine repaired the first time. Seems a little fishy to me.

totally agree. fact of the matter is that the machine shop did work on the motor that was absolutely in NO WAY authorized by the OP. regardless of whether or not the OP lied about the ECU, the unauthorized work and the fact that he had to pay for it is a load of BS from Evo's part.

[DC5-S]

Originally Posted by white_guilt

totally agree. fact of the matter is that the machine shop did work on the motor that was absolutely in NO WAY authorized by the OP. regardless of whether or not the OP lied about the ECU, the unauthorized work and the fact that he had to pay for it is a load of BS from Evo's part.

yeah but I think he has k-pro.. which i have too.. if he did a bad street tune his car coulda knocked a shit ton and caused the valves to go bad? that happened to me and i consume more oil now.. i think its the valves in mycase

[tofu1413]

^ er... op bought a B18C5 ITR motor.. hondata makes k-pro for that..? o rly..?

[S1 S2]

^^ I'll rmb to stay clear from blue ones when looking for a Type S.

[underscore]

^ he's already told us about the tune. and even if it was as you say, how would that only ruin one cylinder, and leave the rest seemingly ok?

Originally Posted by Red 5

FYI: Evo Garage was started in Winnipeg, MB in 2003 and relocated to Richmond, B.C. in 2006. That's why David sends his motors back to Winnipeg for machine work.

4 (going on 5) years after moving the company and he hasn't bothered finding someone out here that does quality machine work? For turnaround time alone why would you not try to find someone local? The shipping companies must love these guys.

A couple questions for both sides here:

I'm wondering why the whole motor was sent out, when the issue seems to be from the valves?

For all the poking round the engine that was done, are there no diagnostic techniques (aside from the OP looking in the motor) that could be done to help source this issue? Some kind of compression or leakage test to see if a valve is bad? (forgive my ignorance if no such testing exists)

Again excuse my ignorance, but are there any other heads that could be put on, and used just for a basic leakage test?

[duy-]

so running lean wont cause the valves to leak oil or ruin the valve guide....
running lean and overheating could cause these problems yes?
could it be a bad guide and did anyone test the head with the valves assembled for leaks?

sounds like a crappy deal for both sides like a lot of people already stated but i see both points

-ed bought an engine that was assembled wrong at the head and had a genuine problem whether he broke it in correctly or not

-he was under the impression that it would be a properly built engine because evogarage is a reputable source (i believe still is)

-it was a private sale and david did more then anyone off craigslist would do because he was trying to help ed out and keep the reputation of his job

instead of trying to smear someones reputation though, it might be better to just post what happened (the whole truth) and let the people decide for themselves who is wronger in this situation because no one wins here so how can we decide who is right. i wouldnt have lied about the hondata and running it lean in the beginning however because that just shows you have something to hide but i do see eds point as well as davids

[you!]

Originally Posted by dangonay

One thing I've learned from this thread is the number of people on RS with no fucking clue about mechanics.


Chipping or modding an ECU has nothing to do with valve guides/seals going bad.

lol i dunno how many times this needs to be said 4 ppl to understand this...

however the Ed did mention that the motor is still burning oil roughly around 1L/800km despite having it rebuilt the 2nd time and was also given to Ed as an assembled long block already so it doesn't make sense at all to me... Ed mind explaining and going through all the details of how exactly ur breaking in the motor?
when my NA high cr hybrid motor was rebuilt it needed to be broken in in a specific manner, for instance i could not hit vtec until after xxx/xxxx KMS then later on could go on vtec but should not rev past 7k until after xxx/xxxx KMS, etc etc...

im really curious so let us know ed...

[Red 5]

Originally Posted by underscore

4 (going on 5) years after moving the company and he hasn't bothered finding someone out here that does quality machine work? For turnaround time alone why would you not try to find someone local? The shipping companies must love these guys.

It's because you stick with your proven/reliable sources/suppliers. Just because a business moves doesn't mean you automatically cancel all past relationships with other businesses. I'm not saying that there aren't quality machine shops locally, but you have to have a lot of faith to use a customer's engine as a guinea pig to find one. Turn around time depends on how busy a shop is too, not just the transit time.

P.S. I'm only replying to this thread again because I was quoted.

[StylinRed]

for those harping on Iron for bringing his buddies to intimidate.. can you really blame him for that when the shop owner says he'll keep his engine and just play dumb, as there's no evidence of a sale??

if you want to play ghetto, expect the other guy to as well

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Red 5

It's because you stick with your proven/reliable sources/suppliers. Just because a business moves doesn't mean you automatically cancel all past relationships with other businesses. I'm not saying that there aren't quality machine shops locally, but you have to have a lot of faith to use a customer's engine as a guinea pig to find one. Turn around time depends on how busy a shop is too, not just the transit time.

P.S. I'm only replying to this thread again because I was quoted.

I'll back Red 5 up on this.

My company works all over British Columbia, because we were one of the first companies in Western Canada to offer our specific service and for a time anyone who wanted it had to come to us. Since the company started offering the service 14 years ago a lot of local competition has popped up on the Island, Interior and Sea to Sky. Despite the local competition we still work in all those areas routinely and charge significant travel charges, because most business owners stick with the reliable proven companies. Like Red 5 said, no one wants to experiment on their customers stuff.

[fliptuner]

I'm curious as to what is still causing the excessive oil consumption on this last rebuild.

If the valves, seals, guides and piston rings are good, what's the scoop?

[SpuGen]

[Iron Chef]

I decided to spread the word when my motor on the SECOND REBUILD consumed 1l of oil in 800km and left my bumper black after 500km as noted in my picture of my rear bumper that i took YESTERDAY. If my motor was fine i would have let it go. How ever the fact that the machine shop was not able to find a conclusive cause for the oil consumption and the fact that they are in Winnepeg i knew i didn't want them touching the motor. If they can't find a problem what makes them think another rebuild is gonna fix it? The issue i have is the fact i didn't have a choice in the matter. Later David agreed that is not right , which is why he took off 350.


David had been really good to me up until the point when he returned from his vacation. When i droped the long block too him i inspected the motor with him to show him my findings and agreed that he this is a machine shop defect and he would cover it. What upset me the most is how when he had possession of my motor his attitude did a 180 and told me to fuck off and this is the way it was gonna be. He knows that at that point i'm in a vulnerable position. I was very respectful curtious to him and he was not in the position where he felt he needed to explain anything to me. Even to this day he can't explain how an ecu will cause valve guides to leak.

As for bringing my friends... well if you were being treated like an absolute chump wouldn't you? Just because the vast majority of people here are pussy's , i'm not. At that point i had exhaust all my resources for diplomacy. You want to play dirty and try to bully me ill do the same and treat you like the punk bitch you are. Besides i came to pick up the motor with 1500 in my pockets. I came ready to pay the full amount.

I had spoken to my lawyer and the cost of going to small claims court was 2-3000 and making the purchase by cash didn't help my situation. It wasn't worth it at that point.

As for my break procedure its as followed

-Initial start up and inspect for coolant and oil leaks, set base timing
-dump oil in pan to and re-fill to get out all the oil with machining debris
-Initial road test for 2 km around my neighbourhood and inspect for leaks again
-Head to SFU which is 2km away from me and head up the mountain from 2-4000rpm under modulating loads a couple of times
-then do normal city driving under 4000rpm till 1000km, then perform oil filter change
-i will also go for drives up cypress or seymour to load up those rings to really seat them in
-2000km i will start leaning into vtec with a buddy behind me to monitor the level of smoke in vtec.

I have preformed this break in procedure many times without an issue. Break was not the cause in this case for the oil consumption. As i said before my leak down numbers were good, didn't smoke in vtec, and the cylinders were good visually and when measured.

[Iron Chef]

The consumption clearly coming from the guides, i suspect that once they decided to void the warranty they didn't bother to investigate the cause which is why my motor is still consuming oil

Originally Posted by fliptuner

I'm curious as to what is still causing the excessive oil consumption on this last rebuild.

If the valves, seals, guides and piston rings are good, what's the scoop?

[gdoh]

and the plot thickens

[Iron Chef]

improper mixture will cause problems in the combustion chamber. In this case the problem is in the cylinder head.

You can't test the guides for leaks, you can only measure the clearances

Originally Posted by duy-

so running lean wont cause the valves to leak oil or ruin the valve guide....
running lean and overheating could cause these problems yes?
could it be a bad guide and did anyone test the head with the valves assembled for leaks?

sounds like a crappy deal for both sides like a lot of people already stated but i see both points

-ed bought an engine that was assembled wrong at the head and had a genuine problem whether he broke it in correctly or not

-he was under the impression that it would be a properly built engine because evogarage is a reputable source (i believe still is)

-it was a private sale and david did more then anyone off craigslist would do because he was trying to help ed out and keep the reputation of his job

instead of trying to smear someones reputation though, it might be better to just post what happened (the whole truth) and let the people decide for themselves who is wronger in this situation because no one wins here so how can we decide who is right. i wouldnt have lied about the hondata and running it lean in the beginning however because that just shows you have something to hide but i do see eds point as well as davids

[Iron Chef]

The handshake went out the window why my motor on its second rebuild just went through 1l of oil in 800km

Would you not be upset? Is $5200 dollars chump change to you? i personally feel i have every right to be upset.

Originally Posted by Roach

Ed, another point that bothers me, is after shaking hands with David on the issue, as your friend encouraged you to do, that you went ahead with a smear campaign across multiple forums?

Is your handshake worth anything?

Kev

[originalhypa]

Chef, this situation really sucks, and for all those failing you..... shame on them.
Good luck, buddy.