BC teachers issue strike notice

[MG1]

A lot of districts in BC have declining enrollment numbers. Surrey is one of the few districts bucking the trend.

Out of work teachers.......... where do you get the numbers? Just curious........

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by MG1:7568232

If BC teachers were in the top five and they were asking for more, then who gives a flying fuck. If they were dead last or in the bottom five, then it's a different story. They just want what's fair.

BTW, what's up with you man? You have a hate on for teachers? Did one molest you or something?

What is wrong with you that that is your first thought? You're sick.

I've already defined "fair" in a previous post. The market sets what is fair, and right now it is not fair that many good teachers cannot find jobs while employed teachers complain they need more help in the classroom. Of the employed teachers actually meant they wanted the best for students with reduced class sizes, more money for supplies, ... They'd take a pay cut so out could happen.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by taylor192

What is wrong with you that that is your first thought? You're sick.

No, what's sick is your obsession with this thread..........

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by MG1:7568240

A lot of dstricts in BC have declining enrollment numbers. Surrey is one of the few districts bucking the trend.

Out of work teachers.......... where do you get the numbers? Just curious........

This post shows how out of touch you are, you're arguing without even knowing the facts.

I'm not the only person in this thread who knows there's lots of unemployed teachers in BC, so go look it up, i'm not doing your research for you. Go do some research before you open your stupid mouth again.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by MG1:7568243

No, what's sick is your obsession with this thread..........

Irony is lost on you.

[Vege]

What is considered fair though? Any profession you get into does not guarantee you will be compensated accordingly compared to the cost of living of where you work. You either adapt by moving somewhere else where the cost of living is less or you change professions. Most people don't have the luxury of going on strike and forcing your employer to pay you what you think you deserve.

[MG1]

Wow, calling someone else an idiot and then telling me to shut my stupid mouth. Nice.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by falcon:7567952

Just so were clear here your last statement is not true. I went to a private school and the majority of the teachers were not in the union. I remember having to go to school in the big strike back in the early 2000`s because our teachers actually showed up for work. This was the same in Elementary and High School.

Thank you.

He obviously just posts without any actual knowledge as private schools not being part of the union is common knowledge amongst anyone that knows something on this topic. Maybe if he's embarrassed enough by pointing put how little he knows he'll either stop posting or go educate himself before posting.... Yet I have a feeling that is asking too much.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Irony is lost on you.

True...........

[UFO]

A reason for declining enrollment, and while this is just a small percentage for now, is parents are increasingly enrolling their kids into the private system. Parents would rather pay EXTRA on top of the taxes they are already paying to put their kids through schooling in the public system. That should tell you a little bit about the state of the public system and how impressed parents are with the union... the problem lies much much deeper than the union and what the union wants. I don't blame the union for trying to bargain for as much as they can get, it's their job. But let's get real, and try and solve the real problems at hand here instead of playing political hardball and throwing money at problems to make them even worse.

"These are the people who teach you, make you what you are in the future. They should make more based on that alone its that simple. Not everyone can be a teacher, not everyone has the ability to help those exceed. But those who can deserve to make more then they currently do."

I have to say that ^^ is the worst logic ever, and certainly naive (no offense intended). You say not everyone can be a teacher and help students succeed, so HOW do you prevent those who cannot from being a teacher and freeloading off your system that is set up to reward those who can teach and deserve the money and benefits?

To stray off topic a bit, some of THE worst teachers I ever had were actually in my first couple years of university. The ones that did not have much seniority and were assigned to teach uninteresting weeder courses. Sure these prof's all had PhD's and were probably all very smart, but I'll be damned if they could effectively communicate their respective levels of education and help us learn. If education was as important as you think it is, you would clearly think that the university level should have the best ability to teach of all, no?

[MG1]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Thank you.

He obviously just posts without any actual knowledge as private schools not being part of the union is common knowledge amongst anyone that knows something on this topic. Maybe if he's embarrassed enough by pointing put how little he knows he'll either stop posting or go educate himself before posting.... Yet I have a feeling that is asking too much.

Stop being full of yourself.

I made a mistake and admitted to it. What's the big deal? It's not like you haven't fucked up in the past.



Private schools cannot be part of any union............ you mean teachers of private schools.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Vege:7568250

What is considered fair though? Any profession you get into does not guarantee you will be compensated accordingly compared to the cost of living of where you work. You either adapt by moving somewhere else where the cost of living is less or you change professions. Most people don't have the luxury of going on strike and forcing your employer to pay you what you think you deserve.

X2

Fair will be worked out by the market. If an employer cannot find enough workers cause people moved away, won't move there, or took different jobs then they need to make the position more attractive, usually with higher pay or better benefits.

There are more than enough teachers in BC and i'm suck of them complaining they are not paid as well as Alberta teachers. If they want to make what Alberta teachers make, move. Alberta needs teachers and is thus paying more to entice them to come.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by UFO

A reason for declining enrollment, and while this is just a small percentage for now, is parents are increasingly enrolling their kids into the private system. Parents would rather pay EXTRA on top of the taxes they are already paying to put their kids through schooling in the public system. That should tell you a little bit about the state of the public system and how impressed parents are with the union...

Private schools offer a better learning environment for kids. Public schools cannot turn people away - they take everybody.

French Immerson programmes were once thought of as a private school in a public school setting. Your kid had to be able to handle the extra load and expectations. The classes were full of students who were there to learn. And, the parents were uber involved with their children's education. Learning in that situation was ideal. I'm referring to the late immersion program.

You don't see bad ass to the core types in private schools or in French Immersion classes. More gets done when the teacher doesn't have to deal with brats.

[Jermyzy]

Originally Posted by taylor192

X2

Fair will be worked out by the market. If an employer cannot find enough workers cause people moved away, won't move there, or took different jobs then they need to make the position more attractive, usually with higher pay or better benefits.

There are more than enough teachers in BC and i'm suck of them complaining they are not paid as well as Alberta teachers. If they want to make what Alberta teachers make, move. Alberta needs teachers and is thus paying more to entice them to come.

That's what I've been saying all along too. In my profession, BC is the lowest paid province. If I tried to "go on strike" to demand a higher wage, I'd have no job to come back to the next day. I could move to another province that pays a higher wage, but I choose to stay in BC where all my friends and family are.

[Meowjin]

your a pharmacist lol you still make 6 figures dont act like you dont make alot

[falcon]

Originally Posted by MG1

EDIT: I just checked regarding private school teachers. Since they negotiate on their own, they may not have to be in the BCTF. I stand corrected. My bad. I'm sure they still have to be part of the BC College of Teachers.

Yeah they are part of the College but not the union. Teachers at my school negotiated for themselves, by themselves with the school board.

In any case... I liked the Minister of Education on the news today calling the demands "ridiculous" which they are. 2 Billion in demands... lolz

Teachers are so entitled. Wanted a higher paying job? Should have done something else.

[Frenchie]

Just because teachers are making "2 billion" in demands doesn't mean at all that they'll get it. That's why it's called bargaining. You don't go into bargaining wanting the minimal acceptable number, you go in shooting high because you know the opposition will be shooting for something low, and hopefully, you'll settle somewhere in the middle.

If you think 2 billion in demands is ridiculous, so is the employer and the provincial government having a net zero mandate. If they're not bringing anything to the table and not willing to budge, why should teachers budge from their 2 billion mark?

[MG1]

Originally Posted by falcon

Teachers are so entitled. Wanted a higher paying job? Should have done something else.

Would you be saying this if your SO, or your parents, or siblings, or yourself were a teacher?

This is what bothers me about some of the comments in this thread. It's so easy to throw stones at others.

[7seven]

Originally Posted by MG1

Out of the ten provinces, where do BC teachers stand as far as wages go?

This in a province where cost of living is high.

The teachers, who have yet to table their new wage demands, say they want a raise because their pay has fallen to eighth-place from third in Canada. Teachers also want more say in the size and composition of classrooms.

The employer disputes the eighth-place ranking, saying B.C. teacher wages have dropped to fourth in Canada from third during the last contract or seventh in the country from sixth depending on which provincial scales are used

CTV British Columbia - Teachers' strike notice chills back-to-school mood - CTV News

The Province I believe is basing their comparison on average wages, the teacher's union is basing the bottom 8 comparison on the entry level and maximum wages, which IMO is really not fair and a ploy to gather public sympathy. The top 5 maximum wages are $95,000 - $110,000 and all for places in Yukon, Alberta, NWT, Nunavut. Just like wages for doctors, police officers, etc... are higher in places like that because you have to set the wage higher to attract people to work in those places.

My personal opinion, $95,000 > max annual salary is ridiculous for a public school teacher for Vancouver, there is no need, especially with the amount of unemployed or part time teachers out there looking for positions in Vancouver. They're not happy with the maximum potential wage they can make, well, become a University professor or school administrator. I have a close friend who is a public high school teacher and I've told him, not happy with your maximum potential wage then make a career change, he agrees.

Other issues like class sizes the Province I think needs to give some help with, but that would require hiring more teachers and building more permanent facilities, which would require $$$, taking away $$$ which could be added to the maximum wage scales, there is only so much to go around. My friend who is a teacher has said that a lot of teachers he knows, especially the senior ones, wouldn't go for that as they just really care about their max wages. There are a lot of good teachers out there concerned with the well fare and education of the children, but seems to me the problem is the few, more vocal ones being the issue with max wages.

[dbaz]

Originally Posted by UFO

"These are the people who teach you, make you what you are in the future. They should make more based on that alone its that simple. Not everyone can be a teacher, not everyone has the ability to help those exceed. But those who can deserve to make more then they currently do."

I have to say that ^^ is the worst logic ever, and certainly naive (no offense intended). You say not everyone can be a teacher and help students succeed, so HOW do you prevent those who cannot from being a teacher and freeloading off your system that is set up to reward those who can teach and deserve the money and benefits?

Like I said the union has to come to an agreement to evaluate their teachers. Some teachers do their job without any care, which is ridiculous. The amount will only get worse with them being considered an essential care and having limited funding to teach a proper class. The problem is that both the union and the government are so full of themselves they cant negotiate anything. It may seem stupid but, just because its stupid doesn't mean its not true. Until something like this happens the public education system will only get worse.

[Gridlock]

I can side with them on a lot of issues. Money maybe not so much: 48-50k starting with 2 months off? Not a horrible deal.

My main issue with the education system is special ed kids in general population.

I know its a tough choice to make, do you segregate and basically write off the kid, or integrate and write off everyone else?

I support them on the issue of having a class of like-abled children so you don't need to devote 80% of your time to the bottom 20%.

[Jermyzy]

Originally Posted by MG1

Would you be saying this if your SO, or your parents, or siblings, or yourself were a teacher?

This is what bothers me about some of the comments in this thread. It's so easy to throw stones at others.

My brother is a teacher. Sure he makes less money than me right now. But when he retires, he's set for life with an indexed pension.

[Z3guy]

^ you are bang on....sure you make less as a teacher, but you also have 2 months off to supplement your income.

What most people dont take into acct is an indexed pension....how many public or private companies offer this now?.....less than 2% I bet. How would you like a job, where you could in theory spend everything you make because when you retire, you have a indexed pension to live off of. Also, when you die, the pension can be transferred to your spouse...not 100% sure on that though.....

[Graeme S]

Just a heads up, this thread had been derailed by pro- and anti-union arguments. That part is good, but let's keep this on topic for the teachers, yes? The union debate has now been moved to a new thread:
http://www.revscene.net/forums/65315...rs-thread.html

[Graeme S]

B.C. teachers union quits settlement talks over 10-year-old legislation - The Globe and Mail


Coles notes:
Teachers are walking away from the negotiations because they're deadlocked on the issue of the laws for class sizes
-Teachers say that the laws struck down by the BC Courts mean that all the money saved should go back into the system for hiring and increases (that's the 2.1bn people are talking about)
-Province says that what's happened has happened and that the net-zero policy applies

To this point, wage negotiations have not been tabled.



My take on this? It seems like teachers aren't looking for raises (okay, I admit, the key word may be 'yet') and are just looking to settle the issue of class sizes and composition. If the two sides can't agree on what that means, it might go to the Supreme Court of Canada in order to decide whether the entire laws (bill 27/28) will be struck down and funding returned, or if only parts will be.

This is gonna take a looooooooooooooooong time.


PS: No more pro- and anti- union rhetoric, please. Let's keep this teachers/government, yes?