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Old 02-13-2012, 03:14 PM   #26
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Since student loans are backed by government, educational institutions will raise tuition prices. Why not right?
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:28 PM   #27
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I work min wage... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.
really, you saw this thread as an opportunity to prop yourself up?
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Old 02-13-2012, 03:34 PM   #28
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I alternate between 2 things with student loans.

I know that the year after I graduated, I signed up to go to business school. I was hearded through a line like sheep to sign up for a fat check to pay for the whole thing. I had no idea what the payment terms were, interest or anything. Stand in this line to pay your rent.

Ok.

So I get how it happens.

BUT...you can't blame anyone but yourself.

My favorite thing when I talk to a student is, after they tell me they go to xyz taking abc is "what do you want to do?"

Umm...I dunno.

does "umm...I dunno" pay well? They have good work hours at "umm I dunno"?

and the key question...how much debt are you willing to go into to work at "I dunno"?

When I finally went back to school I at least knew what I wanted to do at that time. I worked in the field, and then questioned myself everyday on "you went, and paid money and sacrificed making money, for THIS."

I get that there are people that figure it out and come up with something on graduation. I guess the key question is: are you one of those people?
I think the biggest factor in this huge clusterfuck is pressuring young people to get post secondary educations straight out of high school. No one knows what they want to do out of high school. You need 2-3 years of cushion space where you evaluate your life and get involved with the job market while living at home. Then when you finally realize what you are good at in the "Real world" then you can see what career path suits you best.

Speaking from a personal experience, after high school was finished I was in such a rush to get out of my shithole town and learn something that will get me somewhere interesting in life. I chose film school at a retardedly high 16,000$ a year(that's only tuition). I chose the wrong school, and the wrong subject I wanted to enter(I chose writing, I should have went to a 4 year program at a government uni so I could get more then a piece of paper and learn everything about film through school, instead of learning by myself.) I take full responsibility for my debt. But I've battled through a lot of non sense and sacrificed a hell of a lot, and got some lucky breaks, so that I could be living away from my parents in this ritzy neighborhood in one of the most expensive cities on earth.

Also, if you're going to go to school for something, make it count... If you're going to school to only "Learn" then go pick up a friggen book. Shit, half of the stuff you will learn from college is by being forced to read it out of a textbook.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:05 PM   #29
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I think the biggest factor in this huge clusterfuck is pressuring young people to get post secondary educations straight out of high school. No one knows what they want to do out of high school. You need 2-3 years of cushion space where you evaluate your life and get involved with the job market while living at home. Then when you finally realize what you are good at in the "Real world" then you can see what career path suits you best.
I'm sorry for your personal experiences yet I disagree with this..

From having 2 decisions in Grade 12.. going to BCIT and taking mech. engineering. dropping out after flunking 2 classes in first semester. then going into CAD design.. its been a up & down journey.

Then you have my brother who was 99% throughout HS, went to SFU for comp. sciences, flunked because he wasn't motivated and is now taking first year Accounting @ Douglas College at the age of 27.

If you start to REALISTICALLY think about what you might like to do in Grade 10/11 and try some of it out... you can always figure it out.
It's the attitude of "oh I want to take afew years off first" and then they don't go back to school for 5-8 years.. they get fucked over because that means they're also 26-28 when they are finally starting their degree.

Lots of "young adults" want to have fun and enjoy life... and don't think down the road into their 30's until its too late.. then they fucking complain about debt and shit when "LIFE" hits them..


Fact: I'm 21 and I make 4x the wage my brother does going to school and working P/T.. he's 27.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:41 PM   #30
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I work min wage... Oh no wait, I worked hard and got a job that's above min wage.
Jigga please. Anyone who attributes their end result purely as "hard work" are just as bad as the other extreme of "it's all luck" .
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:40 PM   #31
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That's just how things are. Here's a documentary on in from CBC.

CBC - Doc Zone - Episode - Generation Boomerang
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:42 PM   #32
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if 65% of the people who went through school to get some meaningless degree went into trades, everyone involved would be better off.

if youre smart enough to get a good degree, you have the ability to pick somthing you want to do, and will earn you a good living

if you have to pick and choose your degree due to course load, requirements, personal smarts, then your probably going to come out of school behind the people who just went to work and youre going to have less experiance

I know welders who havent read a book in 15 years making $140 an hour laughing at people with degrees working as office assistants.
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:49 PM   #33
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I know welders who havent read a book in 15 years making $140 an hour laughing at people with degrees working as office assistants.
There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:18 PM   #34
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There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.
you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:34 PM   #35
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There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.
I dunno, I'd love to have a monster truck and not enough smarts to stop me from doing stupid shit like this!

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Old 02-13-2012, 07:35 PM   #36
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you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.
There is an old Chinese saying "Money can't happiness, but without money you can buy nothing." which is true. I rather have money since it can buy a lot of things I need in order to live.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:32 PM   #37
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These young adults need to know what they want in life..

If all they do is want to party and smoke up, then they deserve nothing...
IF they study hard in WHAT they want to get into, they deserve the congrats...


Its the "taking 1-2 years off to work" that gets most people... they usually just end up work and holding off the studying later part..
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:41 PM   #38
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I'll say that the better tradespeople are usually the ones with some post secondary education.

The ones who haven't picked up a book in 15 years usually show it, sometimes it would be easier to talk to an ape than to them.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:53 PM   #39
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if 65% of the people who went through school to get some meaningless degree went into trades, everyone involved would be better off.
Nah we don't need any more people getting into the trades, they'll just drive down the wages for all of us already in them

But yah even these days a lot of people still look down on the trades and think spending 4 years in university earning some kind of arts degree will put them in a better position in life. Just seems that so many people graduate from university/college and have very little life skills and still have no idea what they want to do.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:16 PM   #40
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I'll say that the better tradespeople are usually the ones with some post secondary education.

The ones who haven't picked up a book in 15 years usually show it, sometimes it would be easier to talk to an ape than to them.
talking to some trades guys is a trade in itself. takes years to learn.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:17 PM   #41
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Highschool does little to prepare students interested in looking at future career options and what kinds of careers are available, at least when I was in highschool. Low barriers to entry into post secondary yields all these graduates with essentially useless degrees scratching and clawing for the same handful of jobs. In my circle of friends, the ones who graduated ended up going back to their co-op for a job anyway.

Taking a year or two off to work is great for building independence but eventually many get to a point where they feel like the money they're making is adequate and many end up staying idle not willing to lose what they already have.

Unemployed grads living at home isn't so bad on a micro level. There are plenty of employed people out there still mooching at home.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:21 PM   #42
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you make assumptions that those people are unhappy in what they do

you say that now, yet alot of people with that same attitude are the same people always complaining about house prices, taxes, not getting a fair shake, etc.

Money cant buy happiness, but when money is somthing that is litterally always on ones mind, whether it be with debts, wishes, etc. it's the kind of thing that is typically better to have more of than less.
A person in the trades isn't by nature unhappy, so I wouldn't assume that.

If a persons motivations are so single mindedly financial that it defines what they choose as a career and in turn causes them to not pursue a true passion, I have little respect for them. Life is nothing more than a brief stint in a rat race, a fleating opportunity to seak out some degree of fufillment and happiness. A person whose goals are financial will never be fufilled, because there will always be something more expensive and better just out of reach.

I'll make less at thirty than I did at twenty, although in fairness I had a ridiculous salary at that age. Earning money didn't make me happy, because I always needed more. Every day at school and eventually in my career, I am fufilled by what I'm doing. Living modestly, not feeling the need to drive a new BMW I'll never be short on cash either.

My Mom wanted me to stay in my former career, pursue a sense of fufillment in my off hours and continue earning a very good living, but so many people in high paying jobs allow work to dominate their lives and I feared that would happen.

If a person is happy as a welder and that's what gives them fufillment, that's not who my statements are directed at. I just feel money has to much of an influence on people..
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:56 PM   #43
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this whole conversation about trades is retarded, with the statement "a friend of mine in trades went through less education, works with his hands and makes more money than you". Woop-ti-doo, there are sales guys with only high school diplomas who bullshit their way to a $200,000+ salary everyday. You could give 1,000 examples like this, and none matter. At the end of the day, whether you make more money or less money, work with your hands or with your mind, as long as you're making a wage you can live on to your own standards, can grow in your career and learning, and actually enjoy what you do - you have a good job. This comparing career fields bs is one step above sfu vs. ubc bs.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:23 PM   #44
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As far as I'm concerned, our American neighbours are in a big heep of trouble not because they decided to go to school and build up a huge debt in student loans; but rather because they decided to make purchases of houses, cars and other luxuries that they had no means of paying off and though financing that shit would be a viable option.

Of course this wouldn't apply to EVERYONE but a LOT of foreclosures in the States was a result of people overreaching their credit and buying more than they could afford. Necessity vs Luxury...There is a big difference. You buy what you can afford, you live the lifestyle you can live...

Want more, save more; but don't buy things thinking that you'll end up paying it off 10 years from now because that need to want more is never going to end.

I'm starting to see the same trend here now. People who are working from pay cheque to pay cheque are going off buying fancy cars building new houses. Drive around and see these people with Corvettes and Mercedes with these shacks of houses. It all depends on people's priorities...
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:44 PM   #45
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The US buried their own residents in debt. Credit was readily available. Pretty tempting for many folks so they let the good times roll. You wouldn't believe the amount of lenders offering up 100% financing..I remember coming across 102% financing with 0 down on more than one occasion
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:32 AM   #46
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I really think the U.S. unemployment crap is a bunch of bullshit. Go on the website for any major company in the USA right now... I'll give you some examples... Microsoft in Seattle... BOEING in Seattle... Toyota in L.A., Mazda in San Francisco...... I have been on those sites recently... and for BOEING alone there are 248 open job opportunities!!! No jobs?! Give me a break... more like too many dumbasses with no education that are too lazy to specialize in something useful and just want everything handed to them or to be the next YouTube or America's Got Talent phenom.

And high pay too!!! I'd much rather be in Torrance, CA doing a more interesting job at Toyota USA than what I do now for more money and all kinds of nice benefits... and there's tonnes of openings... but the damn U.S. is so protectionist there's literally no way for anyone else to apply.............
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thats sad, but its what people are forcefed by their parents and schools to do.
usually kids dont figure out what they really WANT to do until they're in their 20s.
by then they've already wasted 2-3 years minimum of irrelevant studies.
and in many cases its more like 5-10 years wasted or even more.

how the hell are you supposed to know what you want to do by the time you're 17 if you dont even truly know whats out there?
universities are made for cookie cutter careers. they just want your tuition money and they'll push you out the door.
Precisely. I'm 23 going on 24 in a few weeks, have not been to university yet have done quite well. I had no idea what I wanted to do at 17/18, and still don't. But I went to work, made some money and now I'm travelling the world all while my old friends are working dead end jobs with BA's in Vancouver.

Many of them are just starting to get into the work force, and finding it quite difficult with being 24, no work experience (at all, even HS jobs) and only a BA.

From what I've found with a few other friends, if you carry yourself well and are a hard worker at 18 many places are willing to take a chance on a younger employee ready and willing to work. Then, work 5 years and you're up the ladder in no time while your old school mates are still struggling to find an entry level job that you managed to land when you were 18.

Walking out of Uni., at 23/24 with no real workforce exp. and expecting the world... well, sorry to burst your bubble. You're either not experienced enough in the field you want to work or too experienced for anything else. Happened to my sister (who is now going back for a Masters) and it's happening to her husband who just graduated with a BA in Mech Engineering from UBC.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:03 AM   #48
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There's more to life than your yearly salary.

I would rather have the experience of an education and earn a moderately humble but comfortable living, than be an uneducated fool who drives a truck with big tires.
I'd rather be the goof with a big truck and a good wage, rather then a brainiac who is willing to accept an avg wage with a big brain.. because to me that goof just out played the brainiac. And you shouldn't bash something before you try it. My freind welds and he works his ass off welding isn't for the "uneducated".
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:05 AM   #49
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I'm sorry for your personal experiences yet I disagree with this..

Lots of "young adults" want to have fun and enjoy life... and don't think down the road into their 30's until its too late.. then they fucking complain about debt and shit when "LIFE" hits them..


Fact: I'm 21 and I make 4x the wage my brother does going to school and working P/T.. he's 27.
So you're 21 making loads of dough... sweet! So was I... until I realized money isn't everything and I hated working all the time.

Soo many young people these days just think about MONEY MONEY MONEY. Maybe some people realize that life is long, and there is nothing wrong with settling down in your 30's. Sure you might make more MONEY than I do by then, but I'll guarantee I'll have had more fun, more memories and better experiences than someone who thinks like you do. I turned down a job that paid very well to hop on a plane to Europe 5 months ago and haven't looked back. I know that when I go home, there will always be another opportunity. And anyone that tells you there is no work, or can't find that opportunity is either lazy or looking above their experience level, and not willing to grind it out for a few years to get where they want to go.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:11 AM   #50
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My Mom wanted me to stay in my former career, pursue a sense of fufillment in my off hours and continue earning a very good living, but so many people in high paying jobs allow work to dominate their lives and I feared that would happen.

If a person is happy as a welder and that's what gives them fufillment, that's not who my statements are directed at. I just feel money has to much of an influence on people..
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If you don't mind me asking, what did you do at 20 and what do you do now? What changed that made you drop what you were doing to pursue something else?
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